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Design of Obama care was done by three republican and three democrats per some posters today.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Ol' Man View Post
    In a nutshell, the Affordable Care Act did not fail because of the act itself. It failed because the Republicans in Congress wanted nothing that was passed during the Obama Administration to succeed. Once in place and being utilized, there were many efforts by the Democrats in Congress to make modifications needed to see the program succeed... and people covered by the plan. Obstructionist Republicans had already made it there goal to 'repeal and replace' with something they could hang their hats on.
    Today, we will see what the handful of GOP Senators have to offer. Because of them wanting this to be a complete and total Republican plan so they can tout the great job they've done during the 2018 election cycle, the drafting of the plan has been behind closed doors. That action has aggravated ALL of the Democratic members of the Senate... and many of the Republican members. If only 3 Republican Senators vote against the plan, it will not pass. By then, due to caring more about watching the ACA fail than "Band-Aiding" it enough to see coverage for millions remain until a new plan could be put together and passed, millions of Americans will be without health insurance. The blame will be on the shoulders of the Republicans.
    There are three distinct divisions in Congress re the health insurance plan... and a glimpse of a fourth. The Republican Party itself is dramatically split as to what they want to see. The moderate Republicans want something close enough to the ACA that it will work, but be able to tag it a Republican plan. The far right does not want any plan to pass that does not return to an "every man for himself" situation where the pharmaceutical companies and health insurance companies can continue paying executives multi-million dollar salaries. The Democratic Party is not as split as the Republican. Most there also want something that resembles the ACA, but has the necessary changes to make it work for the masses. There is a contingent that will always try to move the U.S. to an entirely single-payer plan. Even though single-payer works extremely well in most countries that have it, the politics of corporate greed will never allow it to happen here.
    It's exactly that support for "Corporate Greed"... by the electorate that continues to vote against their own interests that is confounding to the rest of us.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Ol' Man View Post
    In a nutshell, the Affordable Care Act did not fail because of the act itself. It failed because the Republicans in Congress wanted nothing that was passed during the Obama Administration to succeed. Once in place and being utilized, there were many efforts by the Democrats in Congress to make modifications needed to see the program succeed... and people covered by the plan. Obstructionist Republicans had already made it there goal to 'repeal and replace' with something they could hang their hats on.
    Today, we will see what the handful of GOP Senators have to offer. Because of them wanting this to be a complete and total Republican plan so they can tout the great job they've done during the 2018 election cycle, the drafting of the plan has been behind closed doors. That action has aggravated ALL of the Democratic members of the Senate... and many of the Republican members. If only 3 Republican Senators vote against the plan, it will not pass. By then, due to caring more about watching the ACA fail than "Band-Aiding" it enough to see coverage for millions remain until a new plan could be put together and passed, millions of Americans will be without health insurance. The blame will be on the shoulders of the Republicans.
    There are three distinct divisions in Congress re the health insurance plan... and a glimpse of a fourth. The Republican Party itself is dramatically split as to what they want to see. The moderate Republicans want something close enough to the ACA that it will work, but be able to tag it a Republican plan. The far right does not want any plan to pass that does not return to an "every man for himself" situation where the pharmaceutical companies and health insurance companies can continue paying executives multi-million dollar salaries. The Democratic Party is not as split as the Republican. Most there also want something that resembles the ACA, but has the necessary changes to make it work for the masses. There is a contingent that will always try to move the U.S. to an entirely single-payer plan. Even though single-payer works extremely well in most countries that have it, the politics of corporate greed will never allow it to happen here.
    Really a rather doubtful post. For 6 of Obama's years the Congress was under Obama control. As long as Obama held the Senate, Reid in control, Obama could help or hold what ever he said. Only in Obama's last two years did the Republican hold the Congress.

    The first paragraph forgets that the Democrats refused to allow Republicans any voice in the design meetings or putting in ideas. So none voted for the Democrat only idea.

    The second paragraph ignores the efforts of Trump inviting the Democrats to join with the Republicans in the Congressional speech. The Democrats prefer to follow the Shumer comment of 'our way or no way' or Pelosi's efforts to block the Trump government in all ways possible. This is too bad for the Democrats as they had a way of showing how well they could work to unite the US government. Yesterday I heard comments on the news that they are discussing getting rid of Pelosi as one step for getting the Democrats better voting responses.

    Over all I think the message is definitely politically driven and misses some important things, including why we should copy medical systems around the world that offer less than the US does for care. Even our neighbors in Canada are different from Europe as each province has its own way of doing things. Occasionally they do ask for US help for lack of facilities. Not picking on them at all, just making a point that each country must do things as they see best and no reason for copying a certain kind of operation for all.
    Last edited by BobF; 06-22-2017 at 10:06 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolly View Post
    You are absolutely correct.. The Heritage Foundation is a Conservative Think Tank... and the basic design of the ACA INCLUDING the individual mandate was taken from them.
    Heritage's 'mandate' was going to be pushed with tax credits/benefits rather than fines & penalties but never the less 'mandatory' participation in one system.

    http://dailysignal.com/2012/02/06/do...acare-mandate/

    But one massive 'single payer' style plan simply isn't feasible. Taxes alone would kill it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.5909d1ff5cfd

    The recent California proposal would've doubled the state budget, raised taxes and still would've needed federal subsidies to work.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatInThe View Post
    Heritage's 'mandate' was going to be pushed with tax credits/benefits rather than fines & penalties but never the less 'mandatory' participation in one system.

    http://dailysignal.com/2012/02/06/do...acare-mandate/

    But one massive 'single payer' style plan simply isn't feasible. Taxes alone would kill it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.5909d1ff5cfd

    The recent California proposal would've doubled the state budget, raised taxes and still would've needed federal subsidies to work.
    Why does single payer work so well in other countries, but simply cannot work here?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolly View Post
    Why does single payer work so well in other countries, but simply cannot work here?
    Actually about 57 million people right here in the US have single payer. That's how many people are on Medicare.

    https://retiredamericans.org/social-...-figures-2016/

    And it works great.

    And what's ironic is that many of the 57 million that are on Medicare and love the program, are fierce opponents of single payer. Explain that one to me.
    "What we've got here, is failure to communicate."



  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trade View Post
    Actually about 57 million people right here in the US have single payer. That's how many people are on Medicare.

    https://retiredamericans.org/social-...-figures-2016/

    And it works great.

    And what's ironic is that many of the 57 million that are on Medicare and love the program, are fierce opponents of single payer. Explain that one to me.

    I Can't....

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trade View Post
    Actually about 57 million people right here in the US have single payer. That's how many people are on Medicare.

    https://retiredamericans.org/social-...-figures-2016/

    And it works great.

    And what's ironic is that many of the 57 million that are on Medicare and love the program, are fierce opponents of single payer. Explain that one to me.

    Could it be because it is the contributory in puts from the workers that makes the difference? If so, when you add in the massive numbers of non workers wanting to get in for discounted medical care you might wonder where the money would come from. If that is the concern then take Medicare from the SS system and openly start a different system.

    I think before doing anything like that we need a real comparison of other countries with single payer plans and see if their hospitals, doctors, pharmacy goods, science research, and on and on, compare to the US equivalents. Due to the small sizes of some countries I think the comparisons will actually show the US to be a good source for best quality medical solutions and the pricing should be a good guide to where the best is.

    To compare, there needs to be a leveling way of some sort.

    Not at all sure that being on Medicare is truly a single payer system. I was advised to go out and buy more insurances to pay for all the items Medicare does not cover. I have medical insurance as well and dental insurance and eye care insurance plus my paid for over many years of working Medicare that somehow got connected to my SS retirement package.

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