Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

At What Age Should A person Get Out Of Investing In Stocks?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    933
    Quote Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post

    unless you intend to draw a sub 3% income from your portfolio , which would be very inefficient use of your money ,you need at least 40% equities to pull 4% inflation adjusted. I am 50/50

    How can you say drawing less than 3% is an inefficient use of your money? Many don't need it and want to leave a legacy(not me). Or have plenty stockpiled for nursing homes and end of life issues.

    As far as AA goes as we age, it's a personal decision. No one size fits all. One conservative method is the 100 rule. 100 less your age = stocks....the rest goes in fixed income. I'm actually more conservative than that but many use it as a guideline. Many are more aggressive.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullie76 View Post
    How can you say drawing less than 3% is an inefficient use of your money? Many don't need it and want to leave a legacy(not me). Or have plenty stockpiled for nursing homes and end of life issues.

    As far as AA goes as we age, it's a personal decision. No one size fits all. One conservative method is the 100 rule. 100 less your age = stocks....the rest goes in fixed income. I'm actually more conservative than that but many use it as a guideline. Many are more aggressive.
    because if it is legacy money then it is not for you correct ???? so having it not in assets that grow over decades then would still be inefficient use of your money if it was in only fixed income .

    the point being that if you are going to draw an income off of your portfolio 4% is so conservative that 90% of the time you die at the end of 30 years with more than you started .. 70% of the time you die with 2x what you started and 50% of the time you die with 3x what you started .

    so why not use at least 40% equities and even if you don't want 4% to spend why not let it accumulate for heirs or give them some now while you can see them enjoy it or give to the causes you support.

    in my opinion not using at least 40% equities seems to make inefficient use of what you worked a life time for . either for yourself or heirs . just because you have allocated to be able to take 4% does not mean you have to .

    we certainly don't spend more than 3-1/2% a year but we know we could . if it was all fixed income we would not only not be able to safely take 4% but the legacy money would not grow to its potential .

    yeah , i get it not everyone wants to be in equities . but " feeling good " does not always go hand in hand with what makes good financial sense.

    fixed income has not only grown legacy money barely above the rate of inflation but for those living on it why take a 25% pay cut from what you could draw with as little as 40% equities

    does that reason make sense to you ?

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    Quote Originally Posted by Camper6 View Post
    No sir. That dividend does not come off your share price. If a company is profitable it will pay a dividend to the shareholders from the profits depending how may shaes you own and not from selling off a piece of the share price. The share price stays the same or it may go up and down on the market.


    .
    just ask yourself , if it wasn't for the fact the exchanges have to roll the price back by the payout , why would someone pay the same price for a stock that just paid out tens of millions of dollars in their value the next morning ? no one would ever pay the pre-div price and not get the dividend ... let the profits replace the millions for next quarter and then the stock would be worth the same . so exchanges have to take whatever the closing price was and execute all the waiting orders at the lower prices . ..the exchange lowers the offers automatically reducing the price before the open so all market action is on the lower price . in this case if you don't give it back as a reinvestment you had a 100k in the stock , now you have 96k ....

    reinvesting gives you back your 100k at the open .

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    933
    Quote Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
    because if it is legacy money then it is not for you correct ???? so having it not in assets that grow over decades then would still be inefficient use of your money if it was in only fixed income .

    the point being that if you are going to draw an income off of your portfolio 4% is so conservative that 90% of the time you die at the end of 30 years with more than you started .. 70% of the time you die with 2x what you started and 50% of the time you die with 3x what you started .

    so why not use at least 40% equities and even if you don't want 4% to spend why not let it accumulate for heirs or give them some now while you can see them enjoy it or give to the causes you support.

    in my opinion not using at least 40% equities seems to make inefficient use of what you worked a life time for . either for yourself or heirs . just because you have allocated to be able to take 4% does not mean you have to .

    we certainly don't spend more than 3-1/2% a year but we know we could . if it was all fixed income we would not only not be able to safely take 4% but the legacy money would not grow to its potential .

    yeah , i get it not everyone wants to be in equities . but " feeling good " does not always go hand in hand with what makes good financial sense.

    fixed income has not only grown legacy money barely above the rate of inflation but for those living on it why take a 25% pay cut from what you could draw with as little as 40% equities

    does that reason make sense to you ?
    I really don't give a rats ass how you would invest your money. If you want to be aggressive....fine. I don't and I'm fine with it.

    I don't think I have ever seen a poster so full of himself.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    aggressive ???/ 50/50 ain't aggressive ..


    i spent a lot of years learning what i needed to learn and put in a whole lot of time learning the basics . so if knowing what i am talking about is full of myself , then yeah , i will go with that .


    i disprove the bull shit and myths that constantly get posted so those who want to learn can learn . obviously you are not one of them . ..so don't read my posts

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,131
    .

    Thank God, I have been a conservative saver all my life which enabled me to retire comfortably early [age 55] and totally out of debt [including my house.] I was able to do that [as a single mom with a modest salary] without one cent profit from the stock market. In fact, the one and only time decades ago I had invested in a stock mutual fund, I lost money [thank you, God, for that valuable life lesson.]

    .

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    people make due with whatever they have . everyone backs in to a lifestyle that works around what they have ,. but some could have had a lot more, or led better less stressful lives with more choices with little long term risk ...

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Northwestern Ontario Canada
    Posts
    5,109
    Quote Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
    you sir are very wrong and really do need to start to learn about this stuff if you are going to comment . . dividends are subtracted off the share price and mandated by exchange rules to be done that way ., see the mandated rules below or better yet , learn from the links above ...

    market action going forward is on a reduced value when the market opens . like i said if you had 100k before it went ex div , in the morning you have 96k invested at the ring of the bell and 4k in hand .

    if you give back the 4k and reinvest it , you have the same 100k compounding that you had pre div . just more shares at a lower price making up the 100k .

    if the stock doubles and you reinvested you have the same 200k you would have had if it did not go ex div ...if you did not reinvest the dividend and the stock doubles you only have 192k ...

    what part of the reduction being mandatory don't you get ?


    companies don't pay dividends profit or not ,. dividends are voted on by the board quarterly and paid even when companies have a foot in the grave ... many dividend payers have gone bankrupt and paid right up to the end . ever hear of gm , ge , kodak ? to name a few .

    sorry wrong again on the taxes . unless you are in the zero capital gains bracket in a brokerage account that entire dividend is taxed unless it is a return of capital as reits do .

    you are taxed on the entire 4% in my example . drawing 4% out of a portfolio of non dividend payers is only taxed on the gain portion not the whole 4% .

    to be in the zero capital gains bracket your total taxable income plus the dividend or capital gain has to all fit in the lowest bracket . but that applies to all capital gains and dividends that qualify not just dividends .



    FINRA MANUAL :

    5330. Adjustment of Orders

    (a) A member holding an open order from a customer or another broker-dealer shall, prior to executing or permitting the order to be executed, reduce, increase, or adjust the price and/or number of shares of such order by an amount equal to the dividend, payment, or distribution on the day that the security is quoted ex-dividend, ex-rights, ex-distribution, or ex-interest, except where a cash dividend or distribution is less than one cent ($0.01)
    You don't know what you are talking about. A dividend does nothing to the share price of the stock you hold. It's a dividend at the option of the company that you hold the stock in. They can issue a cash dividend and it does not change the value of the stock you hold unless it might be traded. That's the only thing that changes a share price. Bid and ask.

    I'm not going to bother with your comments anymore. Sorry.

    Regular cash dividends are those paid out of a company's profits to the owners ofthe business (i.e., the shareholders). A company that has preferred stock issued must make the dividend payment on those shares before a single penny can be paid outto the common stockholders.Feb 25, 2015

    What are Dividend Stocks? - Dividend.com


    https://www.dividend.com/dividend-in...vidend-stocks/


    If the stock is trading at $20.00 it stays at $20.00 regardless of whether a dividend is issued except if it is traded on the market.

    The dividends come from the retained earnings of the company.



  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    nonsense . go learn about what you are talking about . if you can understand english it is right in the finra rules i posted above . you could not be more wrong . exchange computers AUTOMATICALLY LOWER THE SHARE PRICE

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is your first lesson

    "Effects on Stock Price

    Because paying a dividend lowers the amount of money a company is worth, the stock market responds by lowering the price of the company's shares . Finra rules mandate all prices are lowered by the exchanges.

    For example, say a company is worth $50 million and has 2.5 million shares outstanding. Based on that valuation, an investor would be willing to pay $20 per share. If the company pays a $1 million dividend, or 40 cents per share, the company would still have 2.5 million shares outstanding, but only be worth $49 million. So, after the dividend the market would only value the stock at $19.60 per share. All trading begins at 19.60


    No Loss for Current Shareholders

    Even though the price of the stock goes down after a dividend, current shareholders don't lose out. Instead, their wealth just takes a slightly different form -- it's split between the reduced share value and the dividend payment. For example, say you owned shares worth $20 each before a 40-cent per share dividend. After the dividend, your stock is only worth $19.60. However, you now have 40 cents in your pocket from the dividend payment. Adding that 40 cent dividend to your share value of $19.60 puts your total worth at $20 -- right where you were before the dividend.


    https://finance.zacks.com/dont-investors-buy-stock-just-before-dividend-date-then-sell-9577.html




  10. #25
    we just closed it all out before the recent drops....we wanted to pay off everything completely. ..totally out of debt....we are 65 &64...it'll be enough for what we need from social security. ...best to you

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    London England
    Posts
    43,079
    Apologies for taking this off topic for a second, but I don't know if I'm the only lurker to find this thread fascinating, and confusingly informative!!!

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    It is only confusing because people parrot what they hear from other misinformed people instead of researching things from proper sources . So they don’t understand how things work And end up believing their own bull spreading more misinformation

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
    It is only confusing because people parrot what they hear from other misinformed people instead of researching things from proper sources . So they don’t understand how things work And end up believing their own bull spreading more misinformation
    i luv that!!

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Connecticut USA
    Posts
    13,195
    I don't have enough money to know what anyone is talking about here.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    bayside ,queens , ny
    Posts
    1,254
    actually the less you have the more important making efficient use of it and developing a safe draw rate becomes . those in that position would likely have done better if they did understand..

    do you know here in america you can take a mere 1000 dollars out of an ira for a vacation or expense and see the marginal effective tax rate on that 1k cost you 47% in taxes . that is because of the two moving targets as to how social security is taxed and once it is it gets added to income which creates more tax on the social security and around and around we go .

    so the less you have the more important it becomes to get things right . that includes investing efficiently to meet your goals and controlling taxes in an efficient manner .. knowledge is power as they say.

    we don't know about all the things we don't know .. so we only judge how we are doing by what we have and what we know ... the fact that we could have had more as well as a better plan is something we don't consider . money may not buy happiness but it can certainly buy choices . so the more we have available to us the more choices we can have when things come up .

    i know many retirees who sweat every unexpected expense . their lives are so stressful . if they could have done some things differently they might have been able to give themselves a bigger cushion .

    heck , before i got close to retirement i thought because i was doing well as an investor ,what else do i need to know ? boy was i wrong ! by the time i learned all the things i did not know tax wise my situation sucked . it could have been so much better had i known all the things i first learned to late .

    i could have had an aca subsidy from 62-65 , i could have had tax free ss for a while , i could have taken up to 42k a year out of future rmd money at as little as 4% tax but it all required setting the building blocks up many many years earlier . now was to late.

    somethings to consider when your assets and income are lower .


    the tax gods give us all a tax gift . if we can keep our taxable income low enough , a couple can pull 24k out of an ira tax free using just the standard deduction .


    they can pull over 40k out at as little as 4% effective tax ... that is an insane deal compared to rmd's later ..


    so the question now is , if you take ss early how will not being able to take that nice juicy tax free or low tax money effect you long term . if you delay ss longer can you take advantage of that money ?


    how will spending down invested assets effect you if you delay ? what about any aca subsidy you may need from 62-65 ? what about roth conversions if you delay and income is lower ?


    what about lower rmd's vs higher ss check and the effect on your wife as a widow now that she files single ?


    further more how you invest may effect your ability to control your income . dividends are something you can't control or turn off and on . if taxable income is critical wold you be better off drawing money from appreciation where only the gain is taxed and not the entire dividend ?


    i can give you so many questions that come up once you try to integrate ss with your situation and have lower resources where every dollar additional counts ..
    Last edited by mathjak107; 01-13-2019 at 04:44 AM.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Please reply to this thread with any new information or opinions.

Similar Threads

  1. Investing
    By mabelsmith40 in forum Financial
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-31-2017, 11:39 AM
  2. Investing for Fixed Income or Buy Condo?
    By grapenutpudding in forum Financial
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-28-2017, 09:06 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-17-2016, 10:55 AM
  4. Robo investing is here and will save thousands in fees over a lifetime!
    By Ralphy1 in forum Current News and Hot Topics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-21-2015, 02:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Family & Health Forums: Pet Forums - Health Forum