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We finally can see a black hole!!!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper6 View Post
    ...... A black hole is supposed to in effect defy gravity from which nothing can escape not even light. Well in order to test that you would have to place an object there and never see it again....... I'm skeptical .Gravity is one of the least understood or explainable concepts in scientific circles......
    Yes. Since you're aware that gravity is not understood, you know the push-pull of relativity versus quantum mechanics. And for those of you who watch Big Bang Theory, you know Sheldon is working on String Theory which attempts to unify the four forces of the universe, which includes gravity.
    Growing old is like being increasingly penalized for a crime you haven't committed.

  2. #32
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    Yup. What I'm waiting for is some kind of proof of a wormhole. It's part of the theory of relativity, but as far as I know, only mathematical conjecture 'proves' it at this point.
    Retired, I don't know anything about wormholes, but it's my understanding that most astronomical knowledge is "provable" by mathematical equations and provable scientific theories, rather than by our going there personally and experiencing whatever it is. For one thing, with the size of the universe and the unfriendliness of its conditions to human life, we would never come back alive. At this point, all we have is the theories of math and science. So, if we can all agree that 1+1=2, and a theorum developed from that fact proves that there are wormholes (or whatever), we are obliged to believe it. At least, until some other proof supercedes it.

    That's what I love about science. Nothing anybody says is sacred; it's just what can be proven by our current state of knowledge. It's always open to question.

    If the current state of knowledge says that picture is indeed a valid picture of a black hole, common sense dictates that we believe it, until somebody comes up with proof that it isn't.

  3. #33
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    Black holes MUST be one of the scariest things about the universe. I wonder when you go through that black holes if you end up in Rod Serling's ''another dimension''?

    https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p03sh...o-a-black-hole

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny View Post
    Retired, I don't know anything about wormholes, but it's my understanding that most astronomical knowledge is "provable" by mathematical equations and provable scientific theories, rather than by our going there personally and experiencing whatever it is. For one thing, with the size of the universe and the unfriendliness of its conditions to human life, we would never come back alive. At this point, all we have is the theories of math and science. So, if we can all agree that 1+1=2, and a theorum developed from that fact proves that there are wormholes (or whatever), we are obliged to believe it. At least, until some other proof supercedes it.

    That's what I love about science. Nothing anybody says is sacred; it's just what can be proven by our current state of knowledge. It's always open to question.

    If the current state of knowledge says that picture is indeed a valid picture of a black hole, common sense dictates that we believe it, until somebody comes up with proof that it isn't.
    Until it is proved it remains a mathematical theory. Experiments take place and theories are constantly challenged. Speed of sound. Speed of light . Etc. Proved by experiments. Big Bang. Black holes. Still theories. Science is not built on feelings or common sense.

  5. #35
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    I thought this was helpful in understanding all this.

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...on-singularity

  6. #36
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    Some people don't believe the first moon landing. Some people don't believe the Earth is round. Some people beilieve there is a Hell & Heaven. Some people believe creatures from other planets are here. Some people believe in witches. In this case we did not need a picture of a black hole to prove they existed.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by retiredtraveler View Post
    Yes. Since you're aware that gravity is not understood, you know the push-pull of relativity versus quantum mechanics. And for those of you who watch Big Bang Theory, you know Sheldon is working on String Theory which attempts to unify the four forces of the universe, which includes gravity.
    Well think of it this way. If what is said about it is that you can't see a black hole because it emits no light. So all it is at this point is a mathematical conjecture and a composite photograph.

    Do you believe in the Big Bang theory?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmdog44 View Post
    Some people don't believe the first moon landing. Some people don't believe the Earth is round. Some people beilieve there is a Hell & Heaven. Some people believe creatures from other planets are here. Some people believe in witches. In this case we did not need a picture of a black hole to prove they existed.
    Everything has a purpose. What is the purpose of a black hole?

    Don't try to slough it off on the moon landing or a round Earth or heaven or hell.

    Let's just stick to the black hole for now. A place that defies gravity?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper6 View Post
    Everything has a purpose. What is the purpose of a black hole?

    Don't try to slough it off on the moon landing or a round Earth or heaven or hell.

    Let's just stick to the black hole for now. A place that defies gravity?
    A black hole defies more than gravity. It does not adhere to the laws of physics as we know them.

  10. #40
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    yes but there will be "future physics" that we have not leaned or discovered!

  11. #41
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    We don't have a good understanding of what goes on beyond the event horizon. General relativity tries to explain the curvature of space time due to mass. This mathematical modelling could estimate the behavior of light due to its physical properties. But the key thing is, that space-time is curved so much beyond the event horizon of a black hole that light is unable to escape the gravitational acceleration towards the singularity. So as far as velocity is concerned; there are ways to estimate, but physically, we have no idea what really happens "at the center" of a black hole.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmdog44 View Post
    We don't have a good understanding of what goes on beyond the event horizon. General relativity tries to explain the curvature of space time due to mass. This mathematical modelling could estimate the behavior of light due to its physical properties. But the key thing is, that space-time is curved so much beyond the event horizon of a black hole that light is unable to escape the gravitational acceleration towards the singularity. So as far as velocity is concerned; there are ways to estimate, but physically, we have no idea what really happens "at the center" of a black hole.
    Good post

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmdog44 View Post
    We don't have a good understanding of what goes on beyond the event horizon. General relativity tries to explain the curvature of space time due to mass......

    Second the 'good post'. In case anyone is interested:
    Into a Black Hole - Stephen Hawking

    Growing old is like being increasingly penalized for a crime you haven't committed.

  14. #44
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    Thanks for providing that, Retired. I found it fascinating, especially where he describes how if we fell into a black hole, we might exit into another universe. Breathtaking stuff!

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