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Right to Die, or Duty to Die?

  1. #106
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    The obligation to die must be a non-issue if we are to exist in a civilized world that resembles, in any shape, way or form, the world we now occupy. That being said, I can envision a coming "Brave New World," where all health factors are weighed, for a given individual, and then decisions are made, with or without that individual's active participation, towards ending the life of that person. For me, personally, I would NEVER want to simply exist, sick, debilitated, almost unaware (or totally unaware) of who I am, where I am, who my loved ones are. I have felt like opting out, only once, after a very painful surgery and healing process. The fact that I started on a new professional path only three days after the surgery, kept me in the game, and I healed back to 100%. Still, I had insight into what it's like to suffer and wish for an end to the same. I cannot understand how so many greedily hang onto life, even though the lives they lead are terrible, beyond belief, and the suffering they bring on their loved ones/caregivers are also truly miserable.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphy1 View Post
    The baby boomers will break the system in a matter of a few short years. There won't be enough government funding or probably enough workers to keep this lot going on and on...
    The boomers are going to be dying off in 15 years. After that, with populations shrinking the world is going to have to change its ideas about having children. The earth's population needs to be reduced by half. If all the boomers died it wouldn't make a serious dent. The world's economy will also need to change. The rich will not be as rich any longer and will have to pay people at least a living wage.
    The real problem will be global warming. By the time the population has been reduced there better have been years of living with renewable energy going on and reducing CO2 levels. That is if you want to be able to go out side.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrigal View Post
    This is an excerpt from a much longer opinion piece with the same title.
    How do you feel about euthanasia as an obligation? A duty?

    If you think such a thing is unthinkable I suggest you read the full article here: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/artic...01/4078456.htm
    First, I agree with posters who said it's dangerous- it could be a fast slide from 'right' to 'duty.'
    But I do have additional concerns:

    One concern would be "how ill is 'ill enough'?" I'm not heartless- I'd have an awful time expecting someone to 'stay alive' if they were either in a permanent vegetative state or unbearable pain, but it seems what constitutes 'tolerable' is shrinking and shrinking.
    Another concern would be who calls the shots? Going by Hillary C's remark that children should be able to make their own decisions, and with the frequent instances of teenagers and even children committing suicide, I'd be very concerned for young people who think a bad day or a difficult situation is reason to end their lives. There are places that consider some teens 'mature minors,' and some that give underage kids full rein on their own health care with parents not even having the right to know about it.
    I know there are people who believe individuals, regardless of age, condition, or situation, should have the 'right' to end their lives whenever they 'choose,' but I don't agree with that and don't think many people would.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaniceM View Post
    First, I agree with posters who said it's dangerous- it could be a fast slide from 'right' to 'duty.'
    But I do have additional concerns:

    One concern would be "how ill is 'ill enough'?" I'm not heartless- I'd have an awful time expecting someone to 'stay alive' if they were either in a permanent vegetative state or unbearable pain, but it seems what constitutes 'tolerable' is shrinking and shrinking.
    Another concern would be who calls the shots? Going by Hillary C's remark that children should be able to make their own decisions, and with the frequent instances of teenagers and even children committing suicide, I'd be very concerned for young people who think a bad day or a difficult situation is reason to end their lives. There are places that consider some teens 'mature minors,' and some that give underage kids full rein on their own health care with parents not even having the right to know about it.
    I know there are people who believe individuals, regardless of age, condition, or situation, should have the 'right' to end their lives whenever they 'choose,' but I don't agree with that and don't think many people would.
    IMHO, first off, you can't really prevent people from committing suicide if they are determined to do so. But that's a whole 'nother issue. I do not believe physician assisted suicide should be available to those who, for whatever reason, have decided they just do not want to go on.

    I believe assisted suicide should be available to those facing a horrible end to their lives. It should be limited to those who are medically certified as terminally ill, and only to those who make the decision for THEMSELVES and that mental health professionals are satisfied have indeed made the decision rationally for themselves. I realize that would not help those who can no longer communicate in any way or who are no longer capable of making rational decisions, but I strongly feel that no one should ever make such a decision for another human being.

    I don't believe that this would slide from right to duty if it were carefully regulated.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    IMHO, first off, you can't really prevent people from committing suicide if they are determined to do so. But that's a whole 'nother issue. I do not believe physician assisted suicide should be available to those who, for whatever reason, have decided they just do not want to go on.

    I believe assisted suicide should be available to those facing a horrible end to their lives. It should be limited to those who are medically certified as terminally ill, and only to those who make the decision for THEMSELVES and that mental health professionals are satisfied have indeed made the decision rationally for themselves. I realize that would not help those who can no longer communicate in any way or who are no longer capable of making rational decisions, but I strongly feel that no one should ever make such a decision for another human being.


    I don't believe that this would slide from right to duty if it were carefully regulated.
    That's why I believe Advance Directives and Living Wills are a good idea. They aren't about assisted suicide, but do make a person's end-of-life decisions clear.

  6. #111
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    All civilised human beings have a duty to live and to safeguard the right to live .
    How many of you chose to be born?
    Not a single one.
    That choice was made by other people and from that point onwards those people have a moral obligation to ensure your continued right to exist.
    I am well informed on N.D. E. and I don't know of anyone who has experienced N.D.E. who would accept the " Right to Die ".
    If they thought they did- that it was their choice, they would not have come back to life.
    With some exceptions - they do actually have a choice,.
    I have done more than a little research on the subject.
    Euthanasia, Positive Eugenics and so-called Bio-ethics are not about compassion for the suffering , they are scientific claims to ownership of life.
    All that I am or seem is but a dream within a dream

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrigal View Post
    This is an excerpt from a much longer opinion piece with the same title.How do you feel about euthanasia as an obligation? A duty?

    If you think such a thing is unthinkable I suggest you read the full article here: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/artic...01/4078456.htm
    I made comments earlier about this issue and have realized that I did not go far enough with my comments. This argument for euthanasia is based on "the slippery slope" idea. The problem is that there is no slope. If we carry out experiments of any kind based on the slippery slope idea we have already gone down that slope. We have become the Nazis.

    They decided to kill more than 6 million people because Germany was running out of money. Even the work camps could not produce enough to support themselves, so those people had to die as well. The movie "Schindler's List" played out this theme. Hitler never even thought about allowing these people to be taken by the Allies to other countries. Then these people could have been repatriated.

    If we have a slippery slope it is in our thinking. If we were to consult Immanuel Kant what might he say about this problem. "We are bound by our duty to one another to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people for the sake of the good." The "Categorical Imperative" tells us that the individual should not be treated as a means to an end, but as the good itself. It still applies as "the greatest good for the greatest number". We must apply this thinking to the present and the future. The "Golden Rule" fails here because "Do unto others" may allow us to kill others if the others would want to be killed.

    So what are we left with? We are left with the idea that we cannot apply arguments that cannot be extrapolated from small number of cases to a large number of cases. The U.S constitution gives rights to each individual. We have the right to, "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." This is why we must be careful not to amend the constitution in ways that would erode these rights.

    Our civil law may not care as much for the rights of the individual. I am not a lawyer despite the fact that I am often a sophist. So it might appear that we would be able to kill people if the law granted a corporation the right to kill, or endanger others based on property rights. This appears to be true and in practice in the U.S. and Canada, in the southern Americas, probably all over the globe. For example, fracking is a very dangerous process as it leads to cancer and earth quakes.

    I believe I have debunked the "slippery slope" idea because there is no way to practice the result except in our thinking. I believe the laws should continue to back the rights of the individual because this is the only way consent for euthanasia could be practiced. I hope this appears in other constitutions around the world in democratic and socialist countries.

    Having said all this I believe there is one more right we must consider. Atheists may not like this discussion, considering it invalid. Yet, the rights of the individual must prevail. I have already considered this argument in my other comment, but will restate it here.
    If we are sent to earth as part of a sacred contract, do we have a right to participate in the death of another by causing that death.
    This is difficult because we do not know even the nature of our own contracts. I think I may have changed my opinion re: this issue.
    It is not really about what God wants except to say that God wants us to live out our contracts.

    We accomplish this by living through our archetypes, my belief only, and by participating in our laws and society. So with God it still comes back to the rights of the individual. Nuff said.
    Last edited by Uncontrolable; 08-13-2017 at 08:06 AM.

  8. #113
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    Like I posted earlier last week, I had just found out that an old high school friend was just diagnosed with ALS. I saw a person die from AIDS and also a person, who was my friend's mother died from ALS maybe 10 or so years ago. Both diseases are horrific going through the process before death. I was always against taking one's own life, but I am kind of on the fence now, if a terminal illness is at hand.
    "SEMPER FI"

  9. #114
    One thing I always wonder about, is the fear that our 'Christian' society has about dying.

  10. #115
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    I think a distinction needs to be made between the right to die and the right to refuse treatment in hospital where the individual knows they are going to die anyway.
    My sister passed away five months ago after suffering from cancer for years.
    She was very devout and when nearing the end she decided to leave hospital and return home to her family to die in peace.
    She refused any further medical treatment knowing that it would only have kept her alive a few months longer and till her passing took only pain killers while she awaited the inevitable.
    She would never have considered Euthanasia or sanctioned any form of " mercy - killing " . People do sometimes have the " right " to die where that death is not consciously instigated and knowing direct intervention to maintain their existence is of temporal value, but they do not have the right to kill themselves, nor do others have the right to kill other people.
    All that I am or seem is but a dream within a dream

  11. #116
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    That's the way I see it too LinuxCat. I'm not there yet but I see the process of dying as the last stage of living and I see value in accepting this time if it is given to me. I have been with my mother and aunt during their last days and I am not fearful for myself. Refusing life extending medical treatment is not the same as assisted suicide or medically induced death.
    We must always take sides.
    Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.

  12. #117
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    You really can't stop somebody from committing suicide. Our gene and our health have already have picked our end, if we don't get run over by a bus.

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