Lizzie Borden

chic

chic

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On August 4, 1892, Andrew and his second wife, Abbey Borden were axe murdered an hour and a half apart, in their home in Fall River, MA. Suspicion fell on Borden's youngest daughter, Lizzie, who was home at the time of both murders.

Visiting the Borden family at this time was John Morse, uncle to Lizzie and her sister Emma Borden on their mother's side. Emma had traveled to New Haven to visit friends but hastily came back when informed by telegraph of her parents deaths.

The Bordens bodies were left on the dining room table until they could be taken away for burial. They were buried 2 days later.

At the inquest, Lizzie's testimony seemed suspiciously inconsistent to the prosecutors and the judge ordered her confined without bail until she could be tried for the double homicide.

Evidence was purely circumstantial. The murder weapon was never found, no motive was ever established, and Lizzie, seen just minutes after her father's murder had no trace of blood on her person.

In June of 1893 a short trial took place and Lizzie was acquitted of the double homicide. The case remains unsolved to this day but at the time garnered world wide attention.

What happened to the murder weapon? Why did Lizzie have no blood on her if she was guilty?

Thoughts?
 

I'm so happy you posted this case, Chic.

It's one that has bewildered me and caused me many-a waking moment pondering what happened... who done it.

To help give this thread topic a jump start, what's your take on the case?
 
Aunt Marg said:
I'm so happy you posted this case, Chic.

It's one that has bewildered me and caused me many-a waking moment pondering what happened... who done it.

To help give this thread topic a jump start, what's your take on the case?
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I would look at the uncle of Lizzie and Emma, John Morse. He claimed to have an alibi. He said he was on a streetcar and even had the id number of the streetcar driver, but whoever killed the Bordens would have been bloody and nobody was.

An axe head was found in a woodbox by the stove in the kitchen. The handle appeared to have been freshly broken off and there was some kind of hair stuck to the blade. But when sent to a forensic specialist at Harvard University, the specialist concluded the hair was probably animal hair and the blood traces were cows' blood. His testimony pretty much blew the case for the prosecution. And no other murder weapon was ever found on the property. So where did the murder weapon go?

I don't believe the state of MA wants this case solved because it's a huge tourist draw. The Borden house still exists and is now a Bed and Breakfast of all things. But it's fun to speculate.
 
chic said:
I would look at the uncle of Lizzie and Emma, John Morse. He claimed to have an alibi. He said he was on a streetcar and even had the id number of the streetcar driver, but whoever killed the Bordens would have been bloody and nobody was.

An axe head was found in a woodbox by the stove in the kitchen. The handle appeared to have been freshly broken off and there was some kind of hair stuck to the blade. But when sent to a forensic specialist at Harvard University, the specialist concluded the hair was probably animal hair and the blood traces were cows' blood. His testimony pretty much blew the case for the prosecution. And no other murder weapon was ever found on the property. So where did the murder weapon go?

I don't believe the state of MA wants this case solved because it's a huge tourist draw. The Borden house still exists and is now a Bed and Breakfast of all things. But it's fun to speculate.
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Wow, so much about the case I never knew.

Thanks for sharing, Chic.

Seems to me a woman with lesser strength would show visible signs of exhaustion swinging an axe as many times as the murderer did, which sort of leads me to believe someone else, likely a man was behind the murders.
 
Aunt Marg said:
I always believed she was guilty, too.
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How could she have cleaned all that blood off herself to face people about two minutes after her father's murder. She would have needed a bath and a shampoo maybe. No blood = no foul. I'm not convinced Lizzie was guilty but I don't know who was. Must do more research.
 
One thing worthy of mentioning, my take of course, is I never liked the looks of Lizzie.

She (in so many ways) always fit the murderer in my eyes.
 
Is it safe to say with the body of Abby, being cold, and Andrew's, being still warm, time would have been in Lizzie's favour to hide the murder weapon, burn or get rid of her clothing, bath, and then reach out to the authorities?
 
Aunt Marg said:
Is it safe to say with the body of Abby, being cold, and Andrew's, being still warm, time would have been in Lizzie's favour to hide the murder weapon, burn or get rid of her clothing, bath, and then reach out to the authorities?
Click to expand...
Some speculate that Lizzie wore something over her clothes and her hair so that she'd only need to wash the blood from her face and hands. They think the dress she burned is the one she wore over the clean dress she was wearing when people came to her house minutes later, and that whatever she wore over her hair was burned along with that dress.

She'd have had to cover her shoes, too. It's doubtful she was barefoot; she'd have left bloody footprints. But she could have whipped a couple of cloth bags (or whatever) off her shoes right where she stood, wrapped them and the head covering in the bloody dress, and hidden it all.
 
Murrmurr said:
Some speculate that Lizzie wore something over her clothes and her hair so that she'd only need to wash the blood from her face and hands. They think the dress she burned is the one she wore over the clean dress she was wearing when people came to her house minutes later, and that whatever she wore over her hair was burned along with that dress.

She'd have had to cover her shoes, too. It's doubtful she was barefoot; she'd have left bloody footprints. But she could have whipped a couple of cloth bags (or whatever) off her shoes right where she stood, wrapped them and the head covering in the bloody dress, and hidden it all.
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I buy into all that you mentioned.

Killers are deranged, that's a fact, but I just don't see a killer entering the home and handing down so many blows to each body, and in addition to, the difference between body temperatures IMO automatically rules out a killer that entered the home, did the deed, then left.

Just doesn't add up to me.
 
Aunt Marg said:
I buy into all that you mentioned.

Killers are deranged, that's a fact, but I just don't see a killer entering the home and handing down so many blows to each body, and in addition to, the difference between body temperatures IMO automatically rules out a killer that entered the home, did the deed, then left.

Just doesn't add up to me.
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Same here. She had plenty of time to think it through, and I've read that she was a meticulous woman.
 
Murrmurr said:
Blue eyes didn't photograph well back then. I actually think she's kind of sweet looking.

You know, Lizzie and her sister Emma bought a really nice house after the trial, in the town's nicest area. They spent pretty freely for a few years, so I wonder if they were in cahoots.
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Sure doesn't reflect favourably in the big scheme of things, does it.
 
After reading some link info, it is a probable conclusion she did it, she'd have to be pretty crafty though, OR have an accomplice which has been not found if considered.
 
The movie I have starring Elizabeth Montgomery shows that Lizzie committed both murders while naked & bathed after each killing.
It also hints at a motive - her father molested & tormented his daughter. And the father was going to leave everything to his wife.
After the trial, Lizzie's sister asks her if she did it. Lizzie just stares at her sister & doesn't answer, then the movie ends.
 
chic said:
I would look at the uncle of Lizzie and Emma, John Morse. He claimed to have an alibi. He said he was on a streetcar and even had the id number of the streetcar driver, but whoever killed the Bordens would have been bloody and nobody was.

An axe head was found in a woodbox by the stove in the kitchen. The handle appeared to have been freshly broken off and there was some kind of hair stuck to the blade. But when sent to a forensic specialist at Harvard University, the specialist concluded the hair was probably animal hair and the blood traces were cows' blood. His testimony pretty much blew the case for the prosecution. And no other murder weapon was ever found on the property. So where did the murder weapon go?

I don't believe the state of MA wants this case solved because it's a huge tourist draw. The Borden house still exists and is now a Bed and Breakfast of all things. But it's fun to speculate.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Chic, that it was the uncle, why else would he have
the street car drivers id number, I had a bus drivers badge I couldn't
remember my own number, never mind another persons!
Aunt Marg said:
One thing worthy of mentioning, my take of course, is I never liked the looks of Lizzie.

She (in so many ways) always fit the murderer in my eyes.
Click to expand...
Never judge a book by the cover Aunt Marg, you might be right but
there was no evidence.

Mike.
 


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