Elder people face eviction and homelessness

V

Vida May

Member
I have been helping friends who would be evicted if their property managers saw inside their apartments. These people were not always like this but in their later years, something has gone very wrong. They seriously need help and they are not getting it. I am writing to ask for your help in understanding the problem and solutions as I prepare to testify in front of the state legislature for better protection of the elderly.

Let me explain, I am a college-educated gerontologist and I know not even educated people understand the problem. We have words to explain the problems but those words mean nothing until we are personally touched by the reality. I did not get the reality the first time a cleaned the filth left behind when a man moved out. I was alarmed when a very nice woman was evicted because of her growing behavior problem. I did not get the reality as I struggled to help another man with his organization and cleaning problem. Not until I dealt with the filth in a female friend's kitchen did I get the horror that something can go terribly wrong with a person's ability to function and when this happens they can be evicted and become homeless. That is when I started searching for information and my worst fears were confirmed. Yes, not only are their daily lives filled with emotional and physical pain, but this can lead to homeless.

Elderly individuals who live in apartment buildings strive to maintain the same level of autonomy as homeowners. Unfortunately, unlike homeowners, their decline in independence may affect other residents. Problems associated with Alzheimer's disease, dementia, diabetes, arthritis and depression, for example, can result in behavior that disturbs neighbors.

Should a senior who knocks on her neighbor's door in the middle of the night because she is afraid or disoriented be evicted? Should the elderly man who yells at the security guard who will not let him in because he forgot his keys also lose his home? Should the disabled tenant who requires 24-hour personal care attendants be prevented from renewing his lease because the landlord doesn't like so many nonresidents coming in and out of the building?

Where is the line between tolerance and breaching a lease? https://attorney.elderlawanswers.com/elderly-renters-are-facing-an-epidemic-of-evictions-3197
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I agree with the idea that individuals of all ages who face eviction due to their health, behavior, or lifestyle should receive some sort of evaluation to determine if they would benefit from professional help.

What about the rights, safety, and quality of life of the other residents in these situations?

 

Vida May said:
I have been helping friends who would be evicted if their property managers saw inside their apartments. These people were not always like this but in their later years, something has gone very wrong. They seriously need help and they are not getting it. I am writing to ask for your help in understanding the problem and solutions as I prepare to testify in front of the state legislature for better protection of the elderly.

Let me explain, I am a college-educated gerontologist and I know not even educated people understand the problem. We have words to explain the problems but those words mean nothing until we are personally touched by the reality. I did not get the reality the first time a cleaned the filth left behind when a man moved out. I was alarmed when a very nice woman was evicted because of her growing behavior problem. I did not get the reality as I struggled to help another man with his organization and cleaning problem. Not until I dealt with the filth in a female friend's kitchen did I get the horror that something can go terribly wrong with a person's ability to function and when this happens they can be evicted and become homeless. That is when I started searching for information and my worst fears were confirmed. Yes, not only are their daily lives filled with emotional and physical pain, but this can lead to homeless.
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Society or rather the population being fluid has changed much of what used to be (knowing ones neighbor] back in the 1940's thru the mid 1960's. Social help programs are in place but I don't think it's a surprise to anyone, the increase in population & the ever changing/increasing demand on social services the problem will continue to grow.

Considering the impact that technology & world events like the pandemic, illegal immigration, the pledge to absorb 100,000 Ukrainians has & will impact more on the economy. I doubt politicians will considered legislation to improve the lives of all the unfortunate.
 
Knight said:
Society or rather the population being fluid has changed much of what used to be (knowing ones neighbor] back in the 1940's thru the mid 1960's. Social help programs are in place but I don't think it's a surprise to anyone, the increase in population & the ever changing/increasing demand on social services the problem will continue to grow.

Considering the impact that technology & world events like the pandemic, illegal immigration, the pledge to absorb 100,000 Ukrainians has & will impact more on the economy. I doubt politicians will considered legislation to improve the lives of all the unfortunate.
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Thank you very much for your comment. You triggered my memory of the 1940 Oregon Family Law book that I have and that information became the first note for my talking points when I testify. Wow, you stimulated me to think of several talking points.

In the past, by law, family had to care for family, and people were fined if they did not. Real estate was geared for family with lots large enough to have a garden and houses were large enough to have a dining area, a bedroom for the parents, a bedroom for boys, and a bedroom for girls. They were large enough to accommodate wheelchairs.

We are creating a problem China has. Apartments too small to fulfill the family duty of caring for aging parents. Parents have apartments too small to care for adult children who need help, and at this time federal law means evicting not only people who do illegal drugs but also their aging mothers who try to help them. Property managers must evict people who bring in someone who is not on the lease. Legally our laws are about protecting the "landlord's" interest and a middle-class standard that is opposed to family helping family.

However, Oregon has made it law that homeless people can not be punished for sleeping on the streets if the city does not have a legal place for these people to sleep.

The Oregon Senate on Wednesday passed a bill that would allow tents to be pitched on public land without the threat of being criminally punished. It awaits Gov. Kate Brown’s signature.

Sponsored by House Speaker Tina Kotek, House Bill 3115 mandates that cities codify ordinances that protect people from fines and fees for camping on public lands if the local government isn’t providing any other viable alternatives.
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That law may be pressure to change other laws and policies.
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/202...ers-may-not-change-portland-policy-on-sweeps/
 
That is what comes with a lease .... yes............. there are worries if a person is not able to care for themselves like they used to...
that used to be a family issue. Many simply do not have anyone to help care for them..... of family does not want to....

Sadly said the situations spoken of Often are not found Until something goes wrong .... fire hazards.... bug infestations .... mold issues all a problem for the whole building not just one tenant ........ By that point there is no proactive measures........ the person needs to go....

I look back to some threads from the winter ... remember many apartment fires with the apartment grossly over crowded ..... but no one checks or acts on occupancy rules or laws before the tragedy......

I think outside of the issues think things like annual or semi- annual inspections etc are what finds this ....... depending on location / state etc some places do not even bother with that....
single family rentals seldom have landlord checking other then outside in a drive by .... some people get along for years without someone noticing or more important Acting on what they see.
 
Jeni said:
That is what comes with a lease .... yes............. there are worries if a person is not able to care for themselves like they used to...
that used to be a family issue. Many simply do not have anyone to help care for them..... of family does not want to....

Sadly said the situations spoken of Often are not found Until something goes wrong .... fire hazards.... bug infestations .... mold issues all a problem for the whole building not just one tenant ........ By that point there is no proactive measures........ the person needs to go....

I look back to some threads from the winter ... remember many apartment fires with the apartment grossly over crowded ..... but no one checks or acts on occupancy rules or laws before the tragedy......

I think outside of the issues think things like annual or semi- annual inspections etc are what finds this ....... depending on location / state etc some places do not even bother with that....
single family rentals seldom have landlord checking other then outside in a drive by .... some people get along for years without someone noticing or more important Acting on what they see.
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I remember wanting neighbors to be moved out because they had become a burden on others and could not take care of themselves. One woman I was sent to check on, was suffering hyperthermia because she did not remember how to turn on her heat and didn't call for help. Her life was actually on the line. Another was repeatedly wandering around outside. She was having mini-strokes and sometimes she was lucid and other times she was not. Let me clarify.

Everyone knew I cared for others so a lot of the problems fell on me. We had a wonderful community of caring for each other and this was destroyed when the building was sold and rents went up forcing many people out of the apartment. We need to protect affordable housing that has the gathering rooms that apartments had, where people naturally formed a caring community.

Thankfully most of my neighbors had family who stepped in and got their mothers into appropriate care facilities. But what I am realizing now is not everyone has a family to help and they do not have the money for housing with the help they need. Only recently did I realize these people are among the homeless. I thought surely the government provided appropriate housing. It does not.

As every day I live with pain and struggle to get things done, the thought of being homeless too, is unacceptable! A rich, civilized society must do better for our young and our elderly.
 
helenbacque said:
Someone living in an apartment whose quarters presents a fire hazard is not only a danger to themselves but to others in the same building. Anyone who is aware of the situation and does nothing to correct it is equally guilty
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What do you think needs to be done? As I said I wanted some neighbors to be moved out but I would never want them to be homeless. Personally, I consider suicide because there is no good alternative if I can not maintain my independence, and I would rather be dead than homeless.
 
Vida May said:
I have been helping friends who would be evicted if their property managers saw inside their apartments. These people were not always like this but in their later years, something has gone very wrong. They seriously need help and they are not getting it. I am writing to ask for your help in understanding the problem and solutions as I prepare to testify in front of the state legislature for better protection of the elderly.

Let me explain, I am a college-educated gerontologist and I know not even educated people understand the problem. We have words to explain the problems but those words mean nothing until we are personally touched by the reality. I did not get the reality the first time a cleaned the filth left behind when a man moved out. I was alarmed when a very nice woman was evicted because of her growing behavior problem. I did not get the reality as I struggled to help another man with his organization and cleaning problem. Not until I dealt with the filth in a female friend's kitchen did I get the horror that something can go terribly wrong with a person's ability to function and when this happens they can be evicted and become homeless. That is when I started searching for information and my worst fears were confirmed. Yes, not only are their daily lives filled with emotional and physical pain, but this can lead to homeless.
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best of luck to you in this very very important work.
 
JonSR77 said:
best of luck to you in this very very important work.
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I was shocked to learn the ability to remain independent can be written into a lease and an older person can be evicted simply because of needing a caregiver. Federal law protects people with disabilities from being discriminated against, but few elderly people are aware of that so they do not turn to legal help when told they must move.

There is reason to be concerned about discrimination simply because of being old and the property manager wanting to avoid the problems that can come with older people. Not even housing for older people is managed by people with training in gerontology and this can be a problem when decisions are made by young property managers who have no understanding of living in an older body with an older brain.

A good safety feature would be stoves that automatically turn off. Some of us rely on instant pots, steamers, and microwaves that do automatically turn off. One friend even went so far as to unplug her stove.
 
Vida May said:
Not even housing for older people is managed by people with training in gerontology and this can be a problem when decisions are made by young property managers who have no understanding of living in an older body with an older brain.
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what you are describing to me sounds more specialized housing ....cannot imagine an ad for apartment staff asking for training in all the various items they May encounter...... perhaps they need at least 5-10 languages under their belt as well ...
the price would be through the roof to pay for specialty staff and features
 
Vida May said:
I was shocked to learn the ability to remain independent can be written into a lease and an older person can be evicted simply because of needing a caregiver. Federal law protects people with disabilities from being discriminated against, but few elderly people are aware of that so they do not turn to legal help when told they must move.

There is reason to be concerned about discrimination simply because of being old and the property manager wanting to avoid the problems that can come with older people. Not even housing for older people is managed by people with training in gerontology and this can be a problem when decisions are made by young property managers who have no understanding of living in an older body with an older brain.

A good safety feature would be stoves that automatically turn off. Some of us rely on instant pots, steamers, and microwaves that do automatically turn off. One friend even went so far as to unplug her stove.
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generally, the government backs business and businessmen, not the public. I have had horrible, horrible landlords. Most of them belonged in jail for the kind of behavior they exhibited. And the towns always seem to take their side. It's disgusting. And, you know, I don't think it is some emotional bias...I think it is directly some bribe money being spread around by businessmen to get their way.
 
Jeni said:
what you are describing to me sounds more specialized housing ....cannot imagine an ad for apartment staff asking for training in all the various items they May encounter...... perhaps they need at least 5-10 languages under their belt as well ...
the price would be through the roof to pay for specialty staff and features
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Well yes, if the housing is for people over 62, I do believe the property manager should have an understanding of being elderly. Age discrimination in hiring should be in favor of the older person. And when operating a child care center, shouldn't someone with knowledge of child development be in charge?

And if the housing is in an area where a large number of people speak a different language, management is preferably bi-lingual.
 
JonSR77 said:
generally, the government backs business and businessmen, not the public. I have had horrible, horrible landlords. Most of them belonged in jail for the kind of behavior they exhibited. And the towns always seem to take their side. It's disgusting. And, you know, I don't think it is some emotional bias...I think it is directly some bribe money being spread around by businessmen to get their way.
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Property owners will say the laws favor the renters. Jeni seems to be opposed to recognizing special needs and we do have many different special needs populations. Where I live there is special housing for different groups, physically disabled, mentally disabled, elderly, and we finally are getting it together for dealing with the chronic homeless population.

We are humans and we have different problems and different needs. I am not Christian and I do not believe there is a God who takes care of people. If we are to have a civilization it is up to humans to take care of each other. The US is lagging behind other nations when it comes to social concerns.

However, in the 1960's when John Kennedy was in office we passed the Older Americans Act that did recognize the needs of older people and did declare older people are entitled to basic things. This is not a one way, give services to the elderly. It is also very much about keeping the elderly involved and actively engaged in society and giving them the opportunity to contribute to society.

We are entitled to housing, food, education, and transportation.
 
Vida May said:
Well yes, if the housing is for people over 62, I do believe the property manager should have an understanding of being elderly. Age discrimination in hiring should be in favor of the older person. And when operating a child care center, shouldn't someone with knowledge of child development be in charge?

And if the housing is in an area where a large number of people speak a different language, management is preferably bi-lingual.
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Maybe i missed your point ......as you referred in another post ... about affordable housing ... as you specialize .....the price goes up not down. That was my point not that i disagreed with specializing...

A manager with training would mean little in this area since it is most often the assistant staff
that does the work or deals with tenants NOT the person in charge....
IMO just makes a long bureaucracy that in the end would be more frustrating to deal with.

Property laws differ greatly,,,,,,,, by many states/ locations....
in my area there is plenty of recourse for tenants............ but i have found / see many do not want to use them .....as it often results in a conflict.
We had a manager that was very abusive to many older residents left us alone .......when she thought she would try something on us ......... We just went over her head and she was put in her place as I quoted the law she broke ....... to her boss...... she is NOT allowed to talk to us anymore at ALL by the property owners wish.... do not know why they did not fire her...

Now many other tenants .. when they have a problem........they want me or H to take up their cause ........
we will direct them to where they can look up law or an attorneys name but we are not fighting everyone's battle.
 
Uncle Charlie may be a nice old man. But if his apartment is a rat infested, fly and roach ridden, garbage strewn dump, maybe Uncle Charlie needs to move to a healthier structured environment. I have to side with the property managers on this. The apartment's condition is window into Uncle Charlie's deterritorialization. You have two options either clean his place, for him, or place Charlie in a home.
 
Jeni said:
Maybe i missed your point ......as you referred in another post ... about affordable housing ... as you specialize .....the price goes up not down. That was my point not that i disagreed with specializing...

A manager with training would mean little in this area since it is most often the assistant staff
that does the work or deals with tenants NOT the person in charge....
IMO just makes a long bureaucracy that in the end would be more frustrating to deal with.

Property laws differ greatly,,,,,,,, by many states/ locations....
in my area there is plenty of recourse for tenants............ but i have found / see many do not want to use them .....as it often results in a conflict.
We had a manager that was very abusive to many older residents left us alone .......when she thought she would try something on us ......... We just went over her head and she was put in her place as I quoted the law she broke ....... to her boss...... she is NOT allowed to talk to us anymore at ALL by the property owners wish.... do not know why they did not fire her...

Now many other tenants .. when they have a problem........they want me or H to take up their cause ........
we will direct them to where they can look up law or an attorneys name but we are not fighting everyone's battle.
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Good for you. From your point of view, are you okay with putting people on the streets because they can no longer think clearer, they are in constant pain, and given those two problems they can no longer live independently because they are problems to others and a possible threat?

If you are not okay with that, what might be done?
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Uncle Charlie may be a nice old man. But if his apartment is a rat infested, fly and roach ridden, garbage strewn dump, maybe Uncle Charlie needs to move to a healthier structured environment. I have to side with the property managers on this. The apartment's condition is window into Uncle Charlie's deterritorialization. You have two options either clean his place, for him, or place Charlie in a home.
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I agree with you but can he afford a home? Is there space available for Charlie?

We have in-home services that have a sliding scale but qualifying for the services can be tricky, and often people like Charlie know nothing about the services. And I am noticing the people who need help the most are not thinking clearly and have some pretty serious functioning problems. And even nice people can have their bad moments. The OP mentions some of those bad moments and questions if eviction should be the way to handle the problem.
 
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Some older people are evicted for hoarding and this should not happen because these people have a problem and need help.

Doctors and psychologists think that hoarding could be a sign that someone has dementia, other cognitive disorders, or a mental illness like OCD, depression, or anxiety. Other triggers include living alone for long periods of time without social interaction, lack of cognitive stimulation, or a traumatic event.

How to Help Seniors Who Are Hoarders - DailyCaring​
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I believe the problem is "Uncle Charlie's" ability to keep his apartment livable. If he can't, it's not really the property manager's burden to clean Chalie's place. There's only two choices- get someone to clean the place or put Chalie in a home. If he can't do either, he's out on the street. That's the economic reality of the situation.
I was in a nursing home> I'm back in my own home now, but I don't know what to do if my savings ran out while i was in the nursing home.
 
Vida May said:
Some older people are evicted for hoarding and this should not happen because these people have a problem and need help.
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the headline says clearly.... COULD be ... that is NOT solid diagnosis......
No one wants to see someone on the street or displaced.... the issues at hand is being Proactive not reactive..... Many refuse to take help early on ... do not think they have a problem ..... only when in crisis then it must be dealt with..
The decisions made with a looming time limit or last minute are Often not the best ones possible..... getting services sometimes takes a month or two etc

Vida May said:
We have in-home services that have a sliding scale but qualifying for the services can be tricky, and often people like Charlie know nothing about the services. And I am noticing the people who need help the most are not thinking clearly and have some pretty serious functioning problems. And even nice people can have their bad moments.
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looking for or evaluating services and options should be done with a clear head instead of after a warning or worse yet an eviction notice....

If people want to help way before needed a back up plan should be explored .... is there family ? is there people who can pair up? what options are out there for x amount of money?

I have said to a few people "oh i heard Jane has had this issue ...have you thought about what you would do in her shoes?" A few then really examined what ifs ....
BUT far too many still stubborn think too bad that will never happen to me because they do not recognize themselves in the picture ....
 
@Vida May I have to ask, are there no religious or mental health workers that go in once a week to clean and help them?
Over here we have Baptist and Anglican care as well as Homecare nurses that will visit once or twice a week.
I used to do home care nursing, which consisted of helping them bathe and checking on medications as well as treating wounds and basic medicals.
 

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