Thinking of divorce but holding back?

I totally agree Jeni as I have seen very few couples that are happy in their senior years. Many will even say that they can’t afford to split. On another retirement forum it was eye opening to read the responses of people to a similar thread that were in long term marriages.
Well then you're in disagreement with my "guru" Desmond Morris too, but never mind hey!

There are still many countries where divorce laws remain harsh, or for cultural reasons marriages last, and I'm told in some of them illnesses such as Alzheimers is unheard of, so one would imagine they are happy enough about that fact! :sneaky::unsure:
 

I totally agree Jeni as I have seen very few couples that are happy in their senior years. Many will even say that they can’t afford to split. On another retirement forum it was eye opening to read the responses of people to a similar thread that were in long term marriages.
So have I, including folk who didn't want to retire because they dreaded spending more time with their partner! But, at the same time I have known many single people who are unhappy and miss having a partner so, I just wonder whether, especially as we get older, there is a feeling of disappointment however our lives have worked out?
 
So have I, including folk who didn't want to retire because they dreaded spending more time with their partner! But, at the same time I have known many single people who are unhappy and miss having a partner so, I just wonder whether, especially as we get older, there is a feeling of disappointment however our lives have worked out?
The truth is as social beings having a partner is 100% better than loneliness, (even negative relationships are said to be better than none in most cases I believe, but I would suggest lets allow the "current orthodoxy", attacking all kinds of institutions carry on unabated, as all kinds of indicators continue to show the harm being done!
(I'll try to come back to you with some examples of the things I'm talking about, before anyone jumps on the bandwagon of suggesting I'm just choosing to run down the young, or whoever else it is I'm supposed to be condemning to an unhappy life, whilst they seek the "universal good" of divorce (as they see it!).
 

The truth is as social beings having a partner is 100% better than loneliness, (even negative relationships are said to be better than none in most cases I believe, but I would suggest lets allow the "current orthodoxy", attacking all kinds of institutions carry on unabated, as all kinds of indicators continue to show the harm being done!
(I'll try to come back to you with some examples of the things I'm talking about, before anyone jumps on the bandwagon of suggesting I'm just choosing to run down the young, or whoever else it is I'm supposed to be condemning to an unhappy life, whilst they seek the "universal good" of divorce (as they see it!).

People can of course be lonely with or without a partner and, I think, that being in a negative relationship can be altogether more lonely than living solo.
 
I have no idea why I should believe that to be the truth.
If you become aware of "transactional analysis", (a way of looking at human relations developed by a US psychologist I believe), you'll learn this is one of the tenets of this very well recognised system, and used by professionals of all kinds and widely taught across the world, then you will know why "negative" is better than "nothing"!
 
People can of course be lonely with or without a partner and, I think, that being in a negative relationship can be altogether more lonely than living solo.
If there is no love shown, or no love left between the couple, it can all become a perfect hell, I'll certainly agree with that view.

Observing couples who fall out all the time, thus seem unhappy or ready for a divorce can be misleading I believe, hence the comments above can mean nothing or be very unreliable at least!

Oprah Winfrey and Phil the psychologist famously helped couples realise they'd allowed their partners to slip in their list of priorities, when they'd become completely unable to appreciate the "negative ways in which they'd started acting towards their spouses", (putting all sorts of things in front of the ones they once loved, and could do again!).
 
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Can't imagine people staying together when they're miserable.

It seems to me that most people in my life and on these boards who've stayed in long term marriages (including those who are now widowed) describe happy marriages.

Yes, there are a few here who say they're stuck in bad marriages, but the vast majority who've stayed for the long term did so because they're happy with their spouses.
 
Can't imagine people staying together when they're miserable.

It seems to me that most people in my life and on these boards who've stayed in long term marriages (including those who are now widowed) describe happy marriages.

Yes, there are a few here who say they're stuck in bad marriages, but the vast majority who've stayed for the long term did so because they're happy with their spouses.

Long term marriage, IMO, requires the "ability" to "adapt"....by Both members. We've been together, for so long, that the days when we used to 'cuddle" are pretty much in the past. We each have our favorite interests and hobbies, and spend much of our time doing that. We give each other any support that is needed, yet give each other plenty of "space". So far, things are going well.

I haven't seen any "statistics" regarding the financial impact that divorce has on people, but I suspect that divorce is one of the biggest reasons why so many are living in, or near poverty. After all, just the cost of maintaining two households substantially reduces the chances of being able to save for a nice retirement.
 
Can't imagine people staying together when they're miserable.
It seems to me that most people in my life and on these boards who've stayed in long term marriages (including those who are now widowed) describe happy marriages.
Yes, there are a few here who say they're stuck in bad marriages, but the vast majority who've stayed for the long term did so because they're happy with their spouses.
Would you still be content, should the number of divorces equal the number of marriages, (so that statistically 100% of marriages will fail you could say), so long as you, and the individuals, or each one of those former couples declare how much happier they are?
Why have such a thing as marriage in those circumstances so many appear to argue for nowadays?
 
Come on Graham, that is not a question that makes any sense. If two are happy in their marriage, that is not something that would happen.

If my husband could come back from the dead, the only reason I would divorce him would guarantee he would survive cancer. I will go further and say, if he could find that bargain, had to marry a beautiful 29 year old to be saved. I would be fine, at least he would be here. I could at least have the joy to see him and his son together.
 
Would you still be content, should the number of divorces equal the number of marriages, (so that statistically 100% of marriages will fail you could says), so long as you, and the individuals, or each one of those former couples declare how much happier they are?
Why have such a thing as marriage in those circumstances so many appear to argue for nowadays?
Your bitterness shapes your perspective on marriages, child custody laws and family courts. Please understand that your bad experiences aren't necessarily the norm and that many people have had good marriages. Among those who haven't, many have found divorce laws, child custody settlements, and family courts reasonably fair and accommodating.

Since statistically nowhere near 100% of marriages fail, I'm not going to bother punching through the straw man argument you've postulated.
 
Thank for the good thoughts. One thing about our friends: they have grown children who I think might be stepping in soon to help. I am afraid though that their situation or something like it will indeed be my fate since my Huzz and I have never had children; I'm just hoping that I get Alzheimers or dementia before he does since he's a foot taller and 100 lb. heavier than I; I can just see me trying to stop him from driving, wandering around all night, trying to go outside unclothed, etc...yeah, right; he's stubborn now and that only gets worse as these old men get older--proven to me by my grandfather, father and stepfather--even before they get Alzheimers. I guess some guys hate getting older even more than women do.
Women are stronger which why we have the babies!
 
I totally agree Jeni as I have seen very few couples that are happy in their senior years. Many will even say that they can’t afford to split. On another retirement forum it was eye opening to read the responses of people to a similar thread that were in long term marriages.
I find many who simply do not want to see it..... they want to believe mom/ dad or grandpa and grandma are happy so they ignore the signs
Many senior couples i know "pretend" fairly well.......
one lady i walk with creates these elaborate stories of how "happy" they are................... after her husband already told the neighbors he can not stand her. She has be clueless that most KNOW his true feelings ...... why he finds anything to do to be away from her.

retirement funds and savings split is a REAL concern.... maybe one spouse had a better plan at work etc ...some get angry the other person does not want to pretend and really want to fight over every last dime ...
for many at a certain age people do not want to find a part time job or item to have income.....
Many do not want to chance being poor in their golden years.

People can of course be lonely with or without a partner and, I think, that being in a negative relationship can be altogether more lonely than living solo.
i have seen this too...... it is sad but true.
 
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For those who think that some people are putting on an elaborate ruse of having a happy marriage, maybe they just don’t want to air their grievances or dirty laundry in public for everyone.
 
Come on Graham, that is not a question that makes any sense. If two are happy in their marriage, that is not something that would happen.
If my husband could come back from the dead, the only reason I would divorce him would guarantee he would survive cancer. I will go further and say, if he could find that bargain, had to marry a beautiful 29 year old to be saved. I would be fine, at least he would be here. I could at least have the joy to see him and his son together.
The question is still fair whether it is rhetorical or ever likely to happen, (and there was leeway in the manner it was framed to take account of the "happy couples who will never miss to divorce", or "those couples happy enough with their choices to stick to their public commitment to their spouse and the person they once thought they loved enough to have a child with them, and work through any problems"!).
 
For those who think that some people are putting on an elaborate ruse of having a happy marriage, maybe they just don’t want to air their grievances or dirty laundry in public for everyone.
There may be all sorts of reasons why people say and do anything, most especially related to divorce or separation from a partner they once thought they loved and loved them, (admitting fault to oneself and/or others can be high on impossible very often for many folks I suspect).
 
Your bitterness shapes your perspective on marriages, child custody laws and family courts. Please understand that your bad experiences aren't necessarily the norm and that many people have had good marriages. Among those who haven't, many have found divorce laws, child custody settlements, and family courts reasonably fair and accommodating.
Since statistically nowhere near 100% of marriages fail, I'm not going to bother punching through the straw man argument you've postulated.
Never mind punching anything, because nothing so many pro, or ultra pro divorce people ever say, or have ever posted on this thread ever shows any inclination to worry at all about the undermining of the institution of marriage, (every country on the planet refusing to accept the liberation of divorce laws to the extent our countries have done do not necessarily have to be wrong and people almost willing divorce upon others right, or at least telling them how good it will be for them and society - "even the children"!).
 
I find many who simply do not want to see it..... they want to believe mom/ dad or grandpa and grandma are happy so they ignore the signs
Many senior couples i know "pretend" fairly well.......
one lady i walk with creates these elaborate stories of how "happy" they are................... after her husband already told the neighbors he can not stand her. She has be clueless that most KNOW his true feelings ...... why he finds anything to do to be away from her.
retirement funds and savings split is a REAL concern.... maybe one spouse had a better plan at work etc ...some get angry the other person does not want to pretend and really want to fight over every last dime ...
for many at a certain age people do not want to find a part time job or item to have income.....
Many do not want to chance being poor in their golden years.
Break: Trish said: Some unhappily married folks are more lonely than single folks!
i have seen this too...... it is sad but true.
What would the pope say to you about this, or the Dalai Lama, or any great or notable thinker, would all take your view, when around us all there are so many signs of distress often contributed to by broken marriages or relationships, (childhood obesity, type 2 diabetes rates in young people here soaring, so much breakdown between fathers and their children one imagines no one truly can love those children as they should be loved, "be I bitter or not, it ain't a good record for anyone with any sense to survey"!).
 
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Never mind punching anything, because nothing so many pro, or ultra pro divorce people ever say, or have ever posted on this thread ever shows any inclination to worry at all about the undermining of the institution of marriage, (every country on the planet refusing to accept the liberation of divorce laws to the extent our countries have done do not necessarily have to be wrong and people almost willing divorce upon others right, or at least telling them how good it will be for them and society - "even the children"!).
What would the pope say to you about this, or the Dalai Lama, or any great or notable thinker, would all take your view, when around us all there are so many signs of distress often contributed to by broken marriages or relationships, (childhood obesity, type 2 diabetes rates in young people here soaring, so much breakdown between fathers and their children one imagines no one truly can love those children as they should be life bed, "be I bitter or not, it ain't a good record for anyone with any sense to survey"!).

There's a difference between being "pro or ultra pro divorce" (which I'm not) and being in favor of healthy, happy relationships (which I am). A government or culture that forces people to remain together when they're in misery does nobody any good, including and especially the offspring of that relationship.

I've yet to meet a child of an unhappy marriage that stayed together who thought it worked out well for the children. Myself included.
 
There's a difference between being "pro or ultra pro divorce" (which I'm not) and being in favor of healthy, happy relationships (which I am). A government or culture that forces people to remain together when they're in misery does nobody any good, including and especially the offspring of that relationship.
I've yet to meet a child of an unhappy marriage that stayed together who thought it worked out well for the children. Myself included.
How would you really know when you say "I've yet to meet a child,...., etc., etc., etc.," whether you knew everything there was to know, or might need to know, in order to form a fair opinion?

To do so you'd need to violate the Canadian lawyers Goldwater statement or view that privacy in close personal relationships is necessary, to start with, but there's far more to worry anyone interested in the truth, (and the "whole truth" especially!).

Julia Tugenhat wrote a book about the way children and young people felt about their fathers, or not seeing their fathers, (succeeding in doing this despite of opposition from the authorities, or at least without their support, though she still managed to investigate about twenty cases).

Why should she be opposed is a first question, and then her findings showed just how far some of those children went to hide their true feeling about being excluded from their dads lives for whatever reason, and the only way Julia managed to discover what they really thought was when the children had enough confidence in her to know whatever they said would go no further, (certainly not back to their mothers or other family members).

Then there are the fathers rights groups like Fathers 4 Justice who routinely tell dads to falsely declare whatever the courts or court system wishes to hear, including admitting to causing abuse of some kind, just so that in doing so those in authority become satisfied, and allow them contact with their kids again in whatever circumstances demanded, (contact centres being one possibility, so similar in style to prison visits with the same level of supervision and lack of privacy). How can a legal system redeem itself if at least one party, or even whole section of the community,( i.e. the dads), routinely lie, and give false tales, and what cynicism it shows about the legal system, those who work in it, and the law in this country, on behalf of so many!

I could go on further, but I notice many folks in this argument refuse to concede any points, (like the need for privacy etc.), so I'll save my breath, and content myself that some feel so convinced they're right and know everything about me, or sufficient anyway, that I can be labelled "bitter" so easily, (proving again to me the need for a modest change in our family laws in order to try to protect decent parents from unjust accusations and assertions, of this and similar kinds!).
 
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There was a time when to death do us part was probably 20 years at the most. People are living so much longer that it’s difficult but not impossible for people to be happily married for life. I stayed with my second husband until all 3 kids were adults because I believed it was best for my family. I dragged him to therapy many times trying to make it work. With my first marriage we were both just too young. I was happy for many years in marriage # 3. When things changed for the worse I hung in there trying to make it work. I would have stayed forever had he not been a serial cheater and brought home 2 stds during Covid. This was before the vaccine and I was in a high risk group. That’s the end and surprisingly I am happier although poorer.
 
There was a time when to death do us part was probably 20 years at the most. People are living so much longer that it’s difficult but not impossible for people to be happily married for life. I stayed with my second husband until all 3 kids were adults because I believed it was best for my family. I dragged him to therapy many times trying to make it work. With my first marriage we were both just too young. I was happy for many years in marriage # 3. When things changed for the worse I hung in there trying to make it work. I would have stayed forever had he not been a serial cheater and brought home 2 stds during Covid. This was before the vaccine and I was in a high risk group. That’s the end and surprisingly I am happier although poorer.
You've made some very good arguments there, and I can say that as a divorced person myself, who feels my life has undoubtedly benefitted from no longer being in that marriage regardless of the less beneficial consequences going with it, (so if my views on divorce don't sound sufficiently nuanced, that is my failure to articulate everything as well as I might have done).

When your views are under incessant attack from those who appear to think they have all the answers, is my excuse, and whether they like it or not, or my saying it or not, would not worry or wish to change the system if divorce rates became equal to the numbers marrying, (and regardless of all the other things I keep trying to raise with them, or anyone interested).
 


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