Criminal vandalism to a North Carolina power grid. Multiple locations hit

Pepper said:
Why did I hear this might have had something about stopping a gay event? Is that just rumor?
Click to expand...
I saw that on the news too and I didn't understand why they made that connection at all.

@Nathan "Protective measures work better Beforehand, rather than after the damage is done." You know the powers that be (wherever they are) usually wait until there are serious issues before doing something. Unfortunately this is also the case when lives are at stake and often it's to "save money". It's a damned shame.

@Disgustedman "it very well could be a test run for bigger." Let's hope not !
 

Last edited:
RadishRose said:
Oh no! Lara is in that area. Hope she didn't lose power.
Click to expand...
Thank you @RadishRose and Diva for your concern. Fort Bragg is about a 2 hour drive away from me so, no, it hasn't affected the coast. Camp Lejeune is a little closer which sometimes concerns me.
It's scary what's going on around us but I'm keeping the faith....and try to stay focused on the fact that we still live in one of the best countries in the world...for now anyway.
 
Last edited:
“Soft targets” like power grids, water processing plants, etc. have long been speculated as attractive sites for attacks by the lunatic fringe and domestic terrorists as they are lightly defended, if at all. The danger now is from copycat attacks since this one has been successfully disruptive. It’s sadly time to get serious and proactive about security measures to guard the resources we all require…
 

This was too easy. I hope substations across the country are taking steps to prevent copy cats.
We were not affected but its not that far from us.
 
Lara said:
Thank you @RadishRose and Diva for your concern. Fort Bragg is about a 2 hour drive away from me so, no, it hasn't affected the coast. Camp Lejeune is a little closer which sometimes concerns me.
It's scary what's going on around us but I'm keeping the faith....and try to stay focused on the fact that we still live in one of the best countries in the world...for now anyway.
Click to expand...
Thank God. Glad you weren't affected. Yes, we're living in a scary world Lara.
 
Security cameras are nice to think about, but is it realistic? The best to hope for is a vandal looks into the camera so he or she can be identified.

Who would monitor those cameras?
There are over 7,000 power plants in the United States run by over 3,000 companies. There are over 55,000 substations and over 450,000 miles of high-voltage transmission lines.

Substations typically have repair maintenance scheduled which typically means spare parts available in a relatively short time. NOT short if you happen to be unlucky enough to experience an outage.

The greatest threat is to the transmission towers. Those towers can reach 200 feet in height & take several weeks to build. Disruption of delivery via transmission lines can cause power backup that will trip safety measures at a power plant shutting generation down.

A good explanation of travel from generation to a home or business is here.
https://www.hunker.com/13418990/what-is-the-typical-voltage-for-power-lines

America & other countries are vulnerable.
 
Knight said:
Security cameras are nice to think about, but is it realistic? The best to hope for is a vandal looks into the camera so he or she can be identified.

Who would monitor those cameras?
There are over 7,000 power plants in the United States run by over 3,000 companies. There are over 55,000 substations and over 450,000 miles of high-voltage transmission lines.

Substations typically have repair maintenance scheduled which typically means spare parts available in a relatively short time. NOT short if you happen to be unlucky enough to experience an outage.

The greatest threat is to the transmission towers. Those towers can reach 200 feet in height & take several weeks to build. Disruption of delivery via transmission lines can cause power backup that will trip safety measures at a power plant shutting generation down.

A good explanation of travel from generation to a home or business is here.
https://www.hunker.com/13418990/what-is-the-typical-voltage-for-power-lines

America & other countries are vulnerable.
Click to expand...
The surveillance feeds don't need to be monitored continuously for them to provide a benefit -- especially since cameras are so inexpensive these days. The video could be uploaded and recorded and used to identify vandals after the fact, which would act as a pretty good deterrent. If there's a high chance of getting caught, the risk vs. reward paradigm would lean more heavily on the increased risk of going to prison and possibly getting sued for interrupting and damaging people's lives. The vandals might even be prosecuted for murder if someone died as a result of the power outage.

It will be interesting to find out what their motive was. Some articles speculate that it was an anti-GLSRBQ act of terrorism. (NOTE: GLSRBQ may not be correct but I don't feel like Googling it. :ROFLMAO: )
 
As you point out after the fact IF the vandals are seen could be useful. The article began this way

"Vandals wielding firearms are suspected of causing a major power outage across a North Carolina county that has plunged tens of thousands of customers into darkness amid freezing temperatures, according to authorities."

To be effective a lot of cameras would need to be placed both on and off the property if success is to be achieved. Lets use an arbitrary amount of 20 cameras. That translates to 1,100,000 cameras recording 24/7 That is only for sub stations. The greatest danger is destruction of transmission towers. The loss of even 20 miles of those 450,000 miles of transmission lines by destruction of a few of those towers would be catastrophic.

Then we'd have to want those vandals to not use guns but to come into range of the cameras so hopefully ID's could be made.

But it's worth thinking about to use cameras as a deterrent if only to generate discussion about how vulnerable we are if massive electrical outages are experienced. Everything from inconvenience to massive death if for example the grid serving the northeast & upper mid west were to be without power in the harshest part of winter. That's about best guess 65 million people with no power for months if transmission towers are destroyed.

https://www.adt.com/resources/how-m...help deter burglars,every corner of your home.
 
Last edited:
One security measure that is being encouraged by energy officials is to put up concrete walls instead of chain-link fences so the vandals would need to scale the walls to be able to fire on the transformers.

The walls could have high voltage powerlines on top as a further deterrent.
 
Jace said:
That's been a topic on a radio program I listen to...where the host keeps
"going on about it"...stating..."it's gonna happen"...s-o-o...
It's NOT just "a conspiracy theory".
Whoo!🤔
Click to expand...
Who did it and why?

Murrmurr said:
Russian spies?
Click to expand...
I wonder that too.
Uptosnuff said:
This isn't just some goof-balls taking a shot at a substation because they didn't get any deer. The article states that authorities said the shooters knew exactly what they were doing and where to shoot to do the most damage. And it was at multiple locations. This is concerning.

It makes me wonder what is really behind this. Is this just a test run?
Click to expand...
Exactly! Seems like testing the water for something bigger. Cutting off power and distracting from a larger attack from someone.
 
Knight said:
Security cameras are nice to think about, but is it realistic? The best to hope for is a vandal looks into the camera so he or she can be identified.

Who would monitor those cameras?
There are over 7,000 power plants in the United States run by over 3,000 companies. There are over 55,000 substations and over 450,000 miles of high-voltage transmission lines.

Substations typically have repair maintenance scheduled which typically means spare parts available in a relatively short time. NOT short if you happen to be unlucky enough to experience an outage.

The greatest threat is to the transmission towers. Those towers can reach 200 feet in height & take several weeks to build. Disruption of delivery via transmission lines can cause power backup that will trip safety measures at a power plant shutting generation down.

A good explanation of travel from generation to a home or business is here.
https://www.hunker.com/13418990/what-is-the-typical-voltage-for-power-lines

America & other countries are vulnerable.
Click to expand...

1955 said:
60 Minutes did a piece on this and stated that one could take down the whole US just by targeting some 20 key sub-stations. Pretty spooky!

60 Minutes – How secure is America’s electric grid?

I think its time to top-off the generator tank.
Click to expand...
If enough power stations are taken down, will that affect our defense systems as far as seeing any bombs before they arrive?
 
Victoria said:
If enough power stations are taken down, will that affect our defense systems as far as seeing any bombs before they arrive?
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure most of the military critical infrastructure have their own backup generators. If all else fails our nuclear subs will mop up the offenders.
 
Victoria said:
If enough power stations are taken down, will that affect our defense systems as far as seeing any bombs before they arrive?
Click to expand...
Leaving our defense systems vulnerable to electrical supply failure isn't going to happen.

The population is vulnerable.

As I've previously posted the transmission towers are the link between the power plants & the sub stations. Depending on the terrain, expected KV load, distance from generation to delivery at a sub station a tower could need to be 200 feet tall.

Depending on the structure needed holes 8ft wide & 27 feet deep filled with concrete to hold the structure anchor. With max truck reach of 170 feet that means a ramp 30feet high would have to be bulldozed and compacted so linemen could reach the anchor points to hang the insulator bells.

Since the right away has already been approved re positioning the tower would take engineering, purchase of the various parts needed, transportation of the multiple pieces of beams or green pole sections if that type of tower is to be used. Site prep, drilling with an auger that could be 8ft. in diameter, multiple loads of on site concrete mixed. Add to that transportation of the cable required to carry the power which could range up to 750 thousand volts. Splicing that cable is another job that requires very skilled linemen. Those splices have to be X rayed to assure complete compression & connection.

All in all what the average person flipping a switch to turn lights on has no idea of what it takes just to get electricity from a power plant to a substation.

In good weather that kind of construction can take several weeks. I'm posting from personal experience having been part of transmission line construction.
 
Knight said:
Leaving our defense systems vulnerable to electrical supply failure isn't going to happen.

The population is vulnerable.

As I've previously posted the transmission towers are the link between the power plants & the sub stations. Depending on the terrain, expected KV load, distance from generation to delivery at a sub station a tower could need to be 200 feet tall.

Depending on the structure needed holes 8ft wide & 27 feet deep filled with concrete to hold the structure anchor. With max truck reach of 170 feet that means a ramp 30feet high would have to be bulldozed and compacted so linemen could reach the anchor points to hang the insulator bells.

Since the right away has already been approved re positioning the tower would take engineering, purchase of the various parts needed, transportation of the multiple pieces of beams or green pole sections if that type of tower is to be used. Site prep, drilling with an auger that could be 8ft. in diameter, multiple loads of on site concrete mixed. Add to that transportation of the cable required to carry the power which could range up to 750 thousand volts. Splicing that cable is another job that requires very skilled linemen. Those splices have to be X rayed to assure complete compression & connection.

All in all what the average person flipping a switch to turn lights on has no idea of what it takes just to get electricity from a power plant to a substation.

In good weather that kind of construction can take several weeks. I'm posting from personal experience having been part of transmission line construction.
Click to expand...
Your post reminds me of my dad - he loved talking about ohms, amps, transformers, volts etc. :giggle:
 
Lots of idle speculation.

This was a serious, purposeful attack. Likely suspects would include homegrown, right-wing terrorist groups, and (much less likely imho) left-wing ecoterrorists. Foreign actors a possibility but farfetched, I think.

Let me be the first to say that I have no idea who really did this.
 
perChance said:
Your post reminds me of my dad - he loved talking about ohms, amps, transformers, volts etc. :giggle:
Click to expand...
did you know this?

The Canadian grid is integrated into the U.S. grid. This integration allows Canada to be a major electrical supplier to the New England states, New York, California, Upper Mid-West, and Pacific North West states. There are over 35 electric transmission interconnections between the US and Canadian systems.

Canadian Power Grid, Electrical Infrastructure, Common ...https://www.generatorsource.com › Other-Information
 

Three Men Plead Guilty to Conspiring to Provide Material Support to a Plot to Attack Power Grids in​


Three men pleaded guilty today to crimes related to a scheme to attack power grids in the United States in furtherance of white supremacist ideology.

According to court documents, Christopher Brenner Cook, 20, of Columbus, Ohio; Jonathan Allen Frost, 24, of West Lafayette, Indiana, and of Katy, Texas; and Jackson Matthew Sawall, 22, of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, each pleaded guilty to one count of conspiring to provide material support to terrorists. The charge and plea agreements indicate that the defendants knew and intended that the material support they conspired to provide would be used to prepare for and carry out the federal offense of destroying energy facilities.

“These three defendants admitted to engaging in a disturbing plot, in furtherance of white supremacist ideology, to attack energy facilities in order to damage the economy and stoke division in our country,” said Assistant Attorney General for National Security Matthew G. Olsen. “The Justice Department is committed to investigating and disrupting such terrorist plots and holding perpetrators accountable for their crimes.”

“These defendants conspired to use violence to sow hate, create chaos, and endanger the safety of the American people,” said U.S. Attorney Kenneth L. Parker for the Southern District of Ohio. “As this case shows, federal and state law enforcement agencies are dedicated to working together to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/thre...terial-support-plot-attack-power-grids-united
 
Jackie23 said:

Three Men Plead Guilty to Conspiring to Provide Material Support to a Plot to Attack Power Grids in​


Three men pleaded guilty today to crimes related to a scheme to attack power grids in the United States in furtherance of white supremacist ideology.

According to court documents, Christopher Brenner Cook, 20, of Columbus, Ohio; Jonathan Allen Frost, 24, of West Lafayette, Indiana, and of Katy, Texas; and Jackson Matthew Sawall, 22, of Oshkosh, Wisconsin, each pleaded guilty to one count of conspiring to provide material support to terrorists. The charge and plea agreements indicate that the defendants knew and intended that the material support they conspired to provide would be used to prepare for and carry out the federal offense of destroying energy facilities.

“These three defendants admitted to engaging in a disturbing plot, in furtherance of white supremacist ideology, to attack energy facilities in order to damage the economy and stoke division in our country,” said Assistant Attorney General for National Security Matthew G. Olsen. “The Justice Department is committed to investigating and disrupting such terrorist plots and holding perpetrators accountable for their crimes.”

“These defendants conspired to use violence to sow hate, create chaos, and endanger the safety of the American people,” said U.S. Attorney Kenneth L. Parker for the Southern District of Ohio. “As this case shows, federal and state law enforcement agencies are dedicated to working together to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/thre...terial-support-plot-attack-power-grids-united
Click to expand...
Good job, FBI! (y)
 
Ah, it seems the terrorists who knocked out the N. Carolina power substation are still at large.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top