God has a plan. An observation and a question.

Because everybody are created equal, god devised only one plan to be distributed throughout humanity. Yep that's right, we all from the same blueprint.
 

Old Salt said:
Good heavens, you are younger than my daughter!!! What are you doing in a senior's forum? :) And as you may have seen by my non-participation I tend to stay out of useless arguments like this one.
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You are really blessed to have a daughter older than me Old Salt... I wish you longer life and good health 🤗

I joined the forum on the offchance to gain some wisdom from older folks... still working on that!

Besides that, I help out at a seniors' club in my area by compiling their newsletter (FOC) ... they are lovely folks and my aim was to get them to join the forum.
Some have, but are afraid to post.... I can see why.... I am still working on that too!
 

Jamala said:
You are really blessed to have a daughter older than me Old Salt... I wish you longer life and good health 🤗

I joined the forum on the offchance to gain some wisdom from older folks... still working on that!

Besides that, I help out at a seniors' club in my area by compiling their newsletter (FOC) ... they are lovely folks and my aim was to get them to join the forum.
Some have, but are afraid to post.... I can see why.... I am still working on that too!
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Thank you for your kind words, Jamala. Regrettably longer life and good health are out! I was diagnosed with bladder cancer three months ago and have refused treatment because I have seen too many 90 year old men in diapers, or sitting in chairs staring unseeingly at God knows what!

Don't take this as a depressing post though. Maybe I am being supported by the wisdom that is supposed to come with age, but rather than bemoan my fate, I enjoy each day I am given and am usually in a very happy state (no, no drugs)! (y):)
 
Old Salt said:
Thank you for your kind words, Jamala. Regrettably longer life and good health are out! I was diagnosed with bladder cancer three months ago and have refused treatment because I have seen too many 90 year old men in diapers, or sitting in chairs staring unseeingly at God knows what!

Don't take this as a depressing post though. Maybe I am being supported by the wisdom that is supposed to come with age, but rather than bemoan my fate, I enjoy each day I am given and am usually in a very happy state (no, no drugs)! (y):)
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Not a "depressing" post my dear... I admire your attitude and hope that when or if I am in a situation like that, I will have (and remember) your courage.
I love positivity... ❤️
 
Hi Blaze .... guess you're asleep in your neck of the woods?
Just letting you know, although you are getting a hard time on here, I would much rather read your stuff than read about what everyone's having for dinner tonight!
Too much eating can lead to a host of problems!
 
Lara said:
2. My Bible based answer is this...God says "He knew us before we were in the womb". Yes His perfect plan was and is in place for us. Whether we listen and follow His plan is up to us...again, "we're created with choices". If we choose to follow our own plan, it may get messy, or it may be what you want...but it won't be what you need and what is best for you.
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To discuss this I think a common understanding of these words could be useful.

Plan
verb
1.
decide on and arrange in advance.

Omnipotent
one who has unlimited power or authority : one who is omnipotent

Does that make sense?
 
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Naturally said:
We can understand God’s will through His Word. God’s Word is perfect, and we can discover God’s plan for our lives through our study of it. Second Timothy 3:16-17 says, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

Second, we can better understand God’s plan for our lives by closely following Him. Romans 12:1-2 promises, “I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God – this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is – his good, pleasing and perfect will.” When we dedicate our lives to God and turn away from the principles of this world, we prepare our hearts to hear from God (also see 1 Peter 4:2).

First Thessalonians 4:3-7 confirms the necessity of being a “living sacrifice” and gives more detail about God’s plan: “It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid ****** immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.”

Third, we can discover God’s plan through prayer. Colossians 4:12 notes that a believer named Epaphras was “always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured.” The Colossian believers needed to know and do the will of God, and so Epaphras prayed for them. We can grow in our understanding of God’s will through prayer. We can also pray for God to reveal His plan to others.

Fourth, God sometimes reveals or confirms His plans for us through other means, including personal circumstances, relationships, or even dreams. However, these areas are often more subjective, and we must carefully evaluate such signs by what God has clearly said in Scripture.

We can rest assured of God’s promise: “Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you” (James 4:8). As we pray, study Scripture, and seek to live holily before the Lord, He will reveal His plan for us in His perfect time and in a way we can understand.
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@Naturally

Amen to THAT!

Put together quite well, brother
 
Knight said:
To discuss this I think a common understanding of these words could be useful.

Plan
verb
1.
decide on and arrange in advance.

Omnipotent
one who has unlimited power or authority : one who is omnipotent

Does that make sense?
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The word 'plan' may be a tad light
Maybe 'objective' is the better synonym
Don't really know

Omniscience
That's waaay outa my wheelhouse

This one thing I do know

'By beholding we are changed'

That's somewhere in Corinthians
 
My mother said there was a book with all our names in it.....as a little girl I saw the "library" many times in dreams, and the old man who supervised the operation.....I saw this before she told me about the book.

“There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
 
Gary O' said:
The word 'plan' may be a tad light
Maybe 'objective' is the better synonym
Don't really know

Omniscience
That's waaay outa my wheelhouse

This one thing I do know

'By beholding we are changed'

That's somewhere in Corinthians
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@Gary I posted my question to Lara only because she referenced the bible as her source of faith.

Now about omnipotent

Reading this bible reference

Ephesians 1:11 says God “works all things according to the counsel of his will.” There is no reason contextually or biblically or theologically to limit that “all things.” So, God governs all things. That applies to the giving of life and the sustaining of life and the taking of life. He works everything, Including when we are born & when we die.

& this

In His Word, God has revealed Himself to us. We can know God better through gaining a better understanding of His character by studying His attributes as described in His Word. Our first post reflecting on God’s attributes focuses on the attribute of omnipotence.

What is Omnipotence?
Creation Mosaic
The Creation mosaic in the Great Upper Church
Omnipotence refers to God’s all-powerful character. To say that God is omnipotent is to recognize that there is nothing outside of His ability to accomplish and no one who can exercise power over Him. God created the entire universe, and He holds the power over it all.

From the tiniest of birds and insects, to the infinite stars and planets, all is under His command. He, in His wisdom, guides the earth on its course around the sun, the perfect distance to support life. He gives us the seasons, and the sun and rain to grow and sustain plants and animals. As Job 38:4-8 and 11-12 tell us:

https://www.nationalshrine.org/blog...nce refers to God's all,the power over it all.

If we are to believe the bible then it follows according to those references God controls all life & the results of all mankind's actions.

Free will is a nice concept but that if thought about indicates that God's power are limited. IMO that is a contradiction to the bible.

What do you think?
 
The majority of religious authorities interpret vague sections of The Bible to indicate God is everywhere, knows everything and anything, and has unlimited powers.

A faulty generalization fallacy of defective induction.

Wikipedia:

A fallacy of defective induction is a conclusion that has been made on the basis of weak premises, or one which is not justified by sufficient or unbiased evidence. Unlike fallacies of relevance, in fallacies of defective induction, the premises are related to the conclusions, yet only weakly buttress the conclusions, hence a faulty generalization is produced. The essence of this inductive fallacy lies on the overestimation of an argument based on insufficiently-large samples under an implied margin or error.

In monotheism and henotheism, God is conceived as the Supreme Being and principal object of faith. The concept of God as described by theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence (present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

I question why that is important? What if God is not everywhere, does not know everything, and anything? What if God made His universe of existence so, or if that is just physical reality? What if God was not eternal in the past? What if God does not have those extremes but is otherwise far beyond our understanding? What if the universe has been eternal and infinite while God came to be within it? Does that decrease his worthiness in being labeled a god? Especially if He regardless has vast powers beyond our imaginations, created or guided life on our planet and us? And now offers we mortal organic entities to share in His eternal nature instead of everlasting non-existence?

Personally, my opinion is that the 3 OOO’s are illogical unless one accepts magic that I consider nonsense. Magic is a result without forces to produce a physical result. God's statements in Bible scripture never explains much about the extent of his powers beyond vague terms that can also be interpreted in various ways different from religious authorities that of course have an agenda. Bible scripture itself shows in numbers of places that interpretation as OOO is nonsense. A result of those in Middle Ages that authorities thought were inspired by God, created by imagining his powers to extremes. Of course, having followers believe so opened up a large amount of self serving imagined dogma for attracting followers. People wonder why so many young adults have left or will leave Christianity. Well it is dogma like the above that contributes to driving logical minds that direction.:

God is Neither Omniscient Nor Omnipotent

https://thechurchoftruth.org/god-is-not-omniscient-tower-of-babble/
 
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Knight said:
Free will is a nice concept but that if thought about indicates that God's power are limited. IMO that is a contradiction to the bible.

What do you think?
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I don't believe it's a contradiction at all
He has given us the ability to choose
Quite the risk
'Unlimited' is like that
Possibly for other worlds to see how this plays out

It's our thinking that's limited

I mean, I can somewhat fathom eternity (no end)
But, no beginning?
That messes with me
 
Jamala said:
I do keep a bit of kosher. I am married to an Egyptian wjo doesn't eat pork.. I never cared for it as a child anyway, so no big deall!
However, we cheat! We do like a glass of vino :LOL:
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lol - As well as a myriad of other foods that aren't kosher too. Not criticizing really. I was just curious because of your remark. I too never understood - even when I was Christian - the Christian dismissal of the Old Testament. Particulary its many rules. There are hundreds of commandments, not just the 10 big ones and the kashrut laws are just a fraction of them. I thank you for having a sense of humor and not taking offense. It's appreciated.
 
Jamala said:
Hi Blaze .... guess you're asleep in your neck of the woods?
Just letting you know, although you are getting a hard time on here, I would much rather read your stuff than read about what everyone's having for dinner tonight!
Too much eating can lead to a host of problems!
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Thank you. That was nice to hear. No, I just didn't feel well yesterday and didn't have time. This will, unfortunately, often be the case. But, well, you have to make the best of what you have. I just found out about a supplement that might help with at least some of my many health issues. Cross fingers (or pray if you want I'm not offended by people wishing me well) that it will help and I won't be spending as many days desperately taking medicine and groaning on my bed. But I can't really complain as said medicine usually works (for some reason didn't yesterday and that's worrisome; unfortunately, doctors are not miracle workers and there is only so much they can do) and I am usually better within hours. A day as bad as yesterday is rare.
 
Gary O' said:
I don't believe it's a contradiction at all
He has given us the ability to choose
Quite the risk
'Unlimited' is like that
Possibly for other worlds to see how this plays out
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Maybe I'm interpreting this bible verse wrong. To me it says free will or ability to choose doesn't exist.

Ephesians 1:11 says God “works all things according to the counsel of his will.” There is no reason contextually or biblically or theologically to limit that “all things.” So, God governs all things. That applies to the giving of life and the sustaining of life and the taking of life. He works everything, Including when we are born & when we die.
 
Knight said:
Maybe I'm interpreting this bible verse wrong. To me it says free will or ability to choose doesn't exist.

Ephesians 1:11 says God “works all things according to the counsel of his will.” There is no reason contextually or biblically or theologically to limit that “all things.” So, God governs all things. That applies to the giving of life and the sustaining of life and the taking of life. He works everything, Including when we are born & when we die.
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From the beginning, the bible is filled with those given choices. Eve was given a choice in the Garden of Eden.

Often times, people take versus of the bible out of context, thinking it proves a point they are trying to make. Kind of like cherry picking someone's post on a forum and missing the point entirely.

Ephesians 1:11 is not about "us" not having a choice, it is Paul addressing the people of Ephesus (the chosen ones), the faithful in Christ Jesus. Paul is referencing the chosen ones in Ephesus according to God's will. Read in context, you may find a different meaning than the one proposed that "we" have no choice. It does not fit that narrative at all ...


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1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To God’s holy people in Ephesus,[a] the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.


11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
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Gary O' said:
Could that possibly include letting things happen?
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Or because the plan with full knowledge of who what & how evil will take place is the plan. The bible is full of info regarding what God is capable of .

When we will die is not a matter of accident or chance; the Bible makes it clear that our lives are in God’s hands. He knows the time of our death, and He has even appointed it. The Bible says, “Man’s days are determined; you (God) have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed” (Job 14:5).

For me that indicates knowledge of who, what & how evil will take place. That knowledge might even be a crime.

What is it called when you know about a crime but don't say anything?
Failure to report a crime, also known as misprision of a felony, is a crime committed when someone is aware that a felony has been committed but fails to disclose it to the authorities.

davidolsonlaw-firm.com
 
Naturally said:
From the beginning, the bible is filled with those given choices. Eve was given a choice in the Garden of Eden.

Often times, people take versus of the bible out of context, thinking it proves a point they are trying to make. Kind of like cherry picking someone's post on a forum and missing the point entirely.

Ephesians 1:11 is not about "us" not having a choice, it is Paul addressing the people of Ephesus (the chosen ones), the faithful in Christ Jesus. Paul is referencing the chosen ones in Ephesus according to God's will. Read in context, you may find a different meaning than the one proposed that "we" have no choice. It does not fit that narrative at all ...


-------
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To God’s holy people in Ephesus,[a] the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.


11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
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That part about
Quote
"11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,"

Excludes all prior mankind. Why? What was the plan before?
 
Knight said:
Or because the plan with full knowledge of who what & how evil will take place is the plan. The bible is full of info regarding what God is capable of .

When we will die is not a matter of accident or chance; the Bible makes it clear that our lives are in God’s hands. He knows the time of our death, and He has even appointed it. The Bible says, “Man’s days are determined; you (God) have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed” (Job 14:5).

For me that indicates knowledge of who, what & how evil will take place. That knowledge might even be a crime.

What is it called when you know about a crime but don't say anything?
Failure to report a crime, also known as misprision of a felony, is a crime committed when someone is aware that a felony has been committed but fails to disclose it to the authorities.

davidolsonlaw-firm.com
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Again, all taken out of context. Read Job chapter 14 in it's entirety.
Job chapter 14
 
Naturally said:
Again, all taken out of context. Read Job chapter 14 in it's entirety.
Job chapter 14
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reading thru the verses sounds pretty dire to me

14 If someone dies, will they live again?
All the days of my hard service
I will wait for my renewal[b] to come.
15 You will call and I will answer you;
you will long for the creature your hands have made.
16 Surely then you will count my steps
but not keep track of my sin.
17 My offenses will be sealed up in a bag;
you will cover over my sin.
18 “But as a mountain erodes and crumbles
and as a rock is moved from its place,
19 as water wears away stones
and torrents wash away the soil,
so you destroy a person’s hope.
20 You overpower them once for all, and they are gone;
you change their countenance and send them away.
21 If their children are honored, they do not know it;
 
Knight said:
Excludes all prior mankind. Why? What was the plan before?
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As mentioned in my first post in this thread, I would not presume to know [God's] plan or will. Nor am I a biblical theologian.
Here are a couple of links that may help you answer those questions ...
How were people saved before Jesus died for our sins?
Where are the people that died before Jesus? Heaven or hell?
And there are many other articles pertaining to your questions.
Here is the link to the google search I performed to find the above links ...
Before Jesus, how did people get to heaven
 

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