Are Humans Innately Aggressive?

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davey

Senior Member
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Ozzieland
This thought or question was triggered for me whilst reading the topic on 'domestic violence' - I have been around it at times and certainly observed its effects in a lot of people. Alfie Kohn wrote this article nearly 40 years ago for Psychology Today. His comments and findings are just as relevant as they were then I believe. And yet 'domestic violence sometimes knows no abate ?' and we watch the human violence play out in the ME this very day and in Myanmar and Ukraine? Is human violence increasing ; staying steady or abating on this planet? and will it go on for evermore ??

aggression in humans?
 

I spent a good amount of time in my studies to allow me to comment on this. Many social scientists and psychologists agree that human nature is far from "nicey-nice". Aggression and competition is burned into our genome.

Take a look at the number of wars and conflicts and just general everyday head smashing and bone breaking that goes on between people since we began to walk upright on two legs. We cooperate when it serves a social need, otherwise, it's serve number 1 and number 1's family. I agree with those who opine that humans are wired like sophisticated jungle animals. Humans were designed by nature to be survival machines. That's all we are, that is until humanity reaches "The Ascension"....the point which we give up violence and aggression and began to be an enlightened and elevated species. I'd guess that should happen around 1,000 to 5,000 yrs from now. Until then, smash away! Just my humble but educated opinion.
 
thanks jpstrap - much appreciated

yes but what about all those who only manage a 'tut tut' as being violent ? - I used to meet a lot of them in church once - usually female? - and there of course is a lead off topic - are women generally less aggressive than men - well maybe used to be?
 

jpstrap said:
I spent a good amount of time in my studies to allow me to comment on this. Many social scientists and psychologists agree that human nature is far from "nicey-nice". Aggression and competition is burned into our genome.

Take a look at the number of wars and conflicts and just general everyday head smashing and bone breaking that goes on between people since we began to walk upright on two legs. We cooperate when it serves a social need, otherwise, it's serve number 1 and number 1's family. I agree with those who opine that humans are wired like sophisticated jungle animals. Humans were designed by nature to be survival machines. That's all we are, that is until humanity reaches "The Ascension"....the point which we give up violence and aggression and began to be an enlightened and elevated species. I'd guess that should happen around 1,000 to 5,000 yrs from now. Until then, smash away! Just my humble but educated opinion.
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In war, the aggressor nearly always attacks a weak or vulnerable target, usually to gain territory. The motivation is power. The need for power is not innate in all humans. In fact, most humans are apt to follow the powerful, or at least submit to them.

I do agree that competitiveness is innate, though. And with eons of struggling to eat and make a home behind us, it totally makes sense.
 
I don't know. But I have thought of this. Why do people war. It's gone on in the past, the present and will in the future.

I can get angry, very angry. Gratefully it doesn't last long. Have I wanted to punch someone in the face and I mean really punch them? Yes I have. But I've never done it. I turn the anger on myself mostly.
 
Remy said:
I don't know. But I have thought of this. Why do people war. It's gone on in the past, the present and will in the future.
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I was thinking in terms of leaders of countries.
Remy said:
I can get angry, very angry. Gratefully it doesn't last long. Have I wanted to punch someone in the face and I mean really punch them? Yes I have. But I've never done it. I turn the anger on myself mostly.
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A lot of people are like that. I am. I'm tempted to punch someone's lights out now and then for something they said or did, but I don't do it. But I don't internalize my anger, I take it out on something...like, I'll grab a hoe and till the garden, or grab a pen and write a profanity filled letter, and then shove it into the shredder ...stuff like that.
 
Humans in competition for things they want may result in aggression. For example gender mates, easy locations with water to obtain and or grow food, pleasant weather environments. That is what happened when the first civilizations arose and quickly became warlike vying for more productive lands. Later some became increasingly warlike when powerful tribes with greater numbers and better weapons realized they could just take what they wanted from others. Thus the rise of states in Mesopotamia that was duplicated in other distant lands.


But what about things ancient humans were not generally in competition for like trading food goods with merchants with fur goods for clothing. Such humans were cooperative resulting in both benefiting. Lots of ways humans can help working with others and be parts of useful appreciative respectful teams. That includes outside groups contracting for manual labor like carrying tribe goods from one place to another say 20 miles down river for food exchange. So the growth of civilizations was not necessarily going to result in war but once that began, it dominated because nearby peoples had to protect themselves. From war came death, murder, pain, and hate for others with revenge, likely.

The above noted, I personally lean towards the view if a minor percentage of ethical and moral folks from this era if magically were transported to another similar planet, would be quite capable of getting along cooperatively, helpfully, in long periods of peace. Working against that now on planet Earth are 8 billion of we Earth Monkeys that in my own lifetime, have already overwhelmed the planet's health. With one-tenth that number spread across the planet with environmentally sustainable behaviors, our planet given our science, technology, and the rise of understanding, ethics, morals, laws, could be an amazing paradise for we organic intelligent entities.

We could do away with a need for aggression and war. That noted, we humans will always be aggressive regarding choice of reproductive mates, but that is not something to go to war about.
 
David777 said:
We could do away with a need for aggression and war.
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How? There has always (or maybe nearly always) been a person or group, motivated by power and greed, who have conquered weaker, smaller, under-defended and otherwise vulnerable groups, and claimed their land and resources. And maybe there always will be.

How do you do away with those people?...or, more correctly, how do you do away with their need for aggression?...which is obviously motivated by power and greed.
 
I think it is a "sin" issue ; we can sin against ourselves as in suicide but also against others as in fighting or war - the puzzle for me is why many humans maybe 50% or more have no desire to fight or kill - so it would seem that in that cohort the "fight instinct" of "gene" as defused ; died out perhaps. It could just be an evolutionary process ; some evolve to non- aggressive humans before others?? - there surely is aggressive we see it in the ME and in Ukraine and parts of Africa. China fascinates me it subdues its neighbours but doesn't go to war??
 
I agree, I have seen members of my own family became very annoyed and emotional disturbed at various social functions and outlets but never become outwardly physically aggressive. Ah now I recall I now remember seeing a topic on another forum called the Aggression Gene? will try to dig it out can't be far away on the 'net? Ah here's the first of many - yawn! - they are of course not hard to find:

Can be heavy but interesting!

omg - don't go there - there are dozens and dozens? wot have I done?
 
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What a fascinating article, Davey! (the OP) Thank you for linking it.

Points I really liked from the article, my paraphrasing:

We used to think that mankind was naturally aggressive and needed sports as an outlet lest we explode. Studies show sports actually make us more aggressive and societies without sports are more peaceful.

We've been taught that since animals are violent and we evolved from animals we are genetically disposed to be violent. In actuality, if you take out killing for food, animals aren't really as violent as we assume they are.

People look at history, see war after war, and conclude that we're naturally war like. This is a false impression because traditionally historians only record the wars and nothing is written about the peaceful years in between.

From the article:
Even if a behavior is universal, we cannot automatically conclude it is part of our biological nature. All known cultures may produce pottery, but that doesn’t mean there is a gene for pottery making. Other institutions once thought to be natural are now very difficult to find. In a century or two, says University of Missouri sociologist Donald Granberg, “it is possible that people will look back and regard war in much the same way as today we look back at the practice of slavery.”
 
Many interesting points brought up here. I will always stick with the perception that humans are not so "nicey-nice".
"Man is a social animal"....what deluded social scientist coined that phrase? Man is social when it is politically useful to be social.

Think on this....the moon and planets are not owned by any current earth nation. Will we be nicey-nice and social when the technology has advanced to the point where we can move easily to and fro the moon and planets? Will we not battle over the rights to resources and real estate on these virgin territories? Or will we sit around a campfire breaking bread and nicely agree on who gets what? I know how I will bet my money.

War, conquest, domination is the template our genome works within. Those who wish for The Ascension of Humanity have a lot of work to do in preparing for such an event. Good luck!
 
dilettante said:
Where does this projection of 5,000 years come from? Considering that humans have been around some 300,000 years or more, a date that just gets pushed back further and further as new discoveries are made.
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Not a projection based in science or logic, just my guess (as i stated) based on what I have experienced in life and judging from the way I perceive the non-advancement of society. My view based on my perceptions, my hunch. I agree it may take 5001 yrs.
 
Maybe humans are aggressive because power is easier to handle than oppression? I mean who wants to be oppressed everyday of their lives?
 
jpstrap said:
I spent a good amount of time in my studies to allow me to comment on this. Many social scientists and psychologists agree that human nature is far from "nicey-nice". Aggression and competition is burned into our genome.
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Yes, indeedy. The hominoids who survived to become the homosapiens of today passed on the aggressive genes through to our DNA. Everybody knows that a large majority of us carry Neanderthal DNA, except that the Neanderthals didn't survive as a species. So how do we explain that? ???
 
Olivia said:
Yes, indeedy. The hominoids who survived to become the homosapiens of today passed on the aggressive genes through to our DNA. Everybody knows that a large majority of us carry Neanderthal DNA, except that the Neanderthals didn't survive as a species. So how do we explain that? ???
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You bring up an interesting point. I am not convinced modern humans are wired to survive into the future. Our ability to destroy ourselves and the planet seem to be too tempting. I feel we simply are not up to the task. Just my feeling after witnessing human behavior for so long. I am fascinated by the several theories which deal with the possibility of at least a few advanced civilizations which could have existed on this planet only to meet their demise in the eons before we came along. Fascinating stuff.
 
RadishRose said:
Oh absolutely!

Just consider what we think is entertainment-
Murder, murder, murder.
Death, torture, battles, bombs, any and all forms of killing; the mind boggles!
Men call it "action" and they love it.
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Oh my Radish Rose....are you implying that the female portion of our species is somehow shielded from aggressive and/or destructive thoughts and behavior? Hmmmmm......
 
jpstrap said:
Many interesting points brought up here. I will always stick with the perception that humans are not so "nicey-nice".
"Man is a social animal"....what deluded social scientist coined that phrase? Man is social when it is politically useful to be social.

Think on this....the moon and planets are not owned by any current earth nation. Will we be nicey-nice and social when the technology has advanced to the point where we can move easily to and fro the moon and planets? Will we not battle over the rights to resources and real estate on these virgin territories? Or will we sit around a campfire breaking bread and nicely agree on who gets what? I know how I will bet my money.

War, conquest, domination is the template our genome works within. Those who wish for The Ascension of Humanity have a lot of work to do in preparing for such an event. Good luck!
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Don't look now, but you are on a social site.
 
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