Migrant thieving shoplifters caught by security in London

HermitHogan said:
Mass psychosis.
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They are part of a gang and they come here for this very purpose. They are told what to say and how to react. This sort of behaviour is meant to deter anyone from stopping them. They hunt in groups and surround people, security, anyone who gets in their way, and they behave like wild animals. They know what they are doing and, unfortunately, in some cases, it works.
 

Why I promote a return to a level of unpleasant corporal punishment with transparency and oversight together with only short jail sentences, especially for lower level offenses. Until some people feel actual pain and or public embarrassment, the kind of punishment received today simply offers little deterrence with high incarceration costs. We also need to rid the USA of laws providing anonymity to repeat juvenile offenders.
 
David777 said:
Why I promote a return to a level of unpleasant corporal punishment with transparency and oversight together with only short jail sentences, especially for lower level offenses. Until some people feel actual pain and or public embarrassment
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Sounds voyeuristic. I find this suggestion nauseating.
 

Pepper said:
...I find this suggestion nauseating.
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So does most of the professional psychology world that is to blame for banning such worldwide as they considered physical punishment barbaric.

Well now given a century plus of that, we have plenty of recent history showing that hasn't been successful.
 
David777 said:
So does most of the professional psychology world that is to blame for banning such worldwide as they considered physical punishment barbaric.

Well now given a century plus of that, we have plenty of recent history showing that hasn't been successful.
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1. Physical punishment is barbaric and immature.

2. Prior to the last century, how successful were humans in the violence department? We're a violent species. But what did Captain Kirk say about that?:
"There will always be those who mean to do us harm. To stop them, we risk awakening the same evil within ourselves".
"We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it! We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today".

I always took "kill" to mean violence, period.
 
Murrmurr said:
@Pepper

I've heard lately that Manhattan is having this problem, and that because NYC is a sanctuary city, these thieves can't be prosecuted. Is that true?
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Here's what a sanctuary city is: we want people, all people, to be able to report crimes to the police, and work with them, if necessary, without fear of deportation,.

Nobody seems to be going to jail, I don't think that's reserved for migrants. But Yes, of course they can be prosecuted.
 
Pepper said:
Here's what a sanctuary city is: we want people, all people, to be able to report crimes to the police, and work with them, if necessary, without fear of deportation,.

Nobody seems to be going to jail, I don't think that's reserved for migrants. But Yes, of course they can be prosecuted.
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That has been my city’s position.

If people are afraid to call the police, fire department, EMS, it puts all of us at risk and makes the immigrants easy targets for various forms of exploitation.
 
JustDave said:
I don't quite understand the commotion. It's not like you're going to be tortured and thrown in a dungeon with the rats. Just go to court and pay a fine, or do community service.
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I remember watching on TV Lebanese women being rescued from I don't remember what. They were all screaming at the top of their lungs and then, in perfect safety, they were still screaming. Really, I think it's a study in anthropology.
 
Unpunished crime is a more general problem going beyond the coddling of illegal immigrant criminals.

California's answer of incarceration and extracting slave labor wasn't very bright or humane. The ideas of not enforcing laws for smaller crimes isn't much saner. Then they did that thing of demoting felonies to misdemeanors, combined with early release. Can you say repeat offenders? I think you can.

I don't know the answer.

Bring back the "stocks" and throw rotten produce at them for certain kinds of offenses? Put them in the stocks, stripped from the waste-down, paint their butts and faces fluorescent orange, then run photographs of that with their names back in their home towns? TV? Electronic billboards? The Internet so they'll show up in searches forever?
 
Joe Arapaio made corporal punishment work. His inmates truly hated the possibility of returning to his jails. Not because they were ever being tortured in the historical sense but rather because it was unpleasant, uncomfortable, embarrassing, and boring. He was under intense public scrutiny, so made certain it did not cross the line in ways his seething haters could pounce on. And that terrified a whole lot of psychology professionals and their politicians that then were afraid it would spread.
 
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Pepper said:
1. Physical punishment is barbaric and immature.

2. Prior to the last century, how successful were humans in the violence department? We're a violent species. But what did Captain Kirk say about that?:
"There will always be those who mean to do us harm. To stop them, we risk awakening the same evil within ourselves".
"We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it! We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today".

I always took "kill" to mean violence, period.
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Even if you were a vegetarian, Pepper, you cannot know that you are not causing suffering in the plant world. We do know that plants react to stimulus (kindness and violence).
Live and let live goes only so far.
 
Nope. Won't give into the whims of those desiring physical punishment for their own thrills, and that's how I see it. People get off on it, won't feed that weird desire for an adult. or anyone, to be spanked. No way.
 
David777 said:
Joe Arapahoe made corporal punishment work. His inmates truly hated the possibility of returning to his jails. Not because they were ever being tortured in the historical sense but rather because it was unpleasant, uncomfortable, embarrassing, and boring. He was under intense public scrutiny, so made certain it did not cross the line in ways his seething haters could pounce on. And that terrified a whole lot of psychology professionals and their politicians that then were afraid it would spread.
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Do you mean Joe Arpaio ?.. who used to make the prisoners in the jail wear pink.. and made them sleep outside in all weathers ?
I saw a documentary on him and the prison a while back... his way of treating the prisoners seemed to work...
 
dilettante said:
California's answer of incarceration and extracting slave labor wasn't very bright or humane.
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If you're talking about the recent proposition that was rejected, (banning "forced labor" by prisoners), here's a question - why SHOULDN'T prisoners be required to do some work to partially defray their room and board?

My children had chores from the time they were quite young. Would some characterize that as "forced labor?" Perhaps so.

At about age 7, one of my kids threw a rock through a neighbor's window. The neighbor came and talked to him, and (with DH & my permission) they made a deal where DS did some outdoor chores at his house to help defray the cost. Doing those chores was minor punishment and partial payment. It was a good life lesson for DS, and he became quite good friends with the man as a result.
 
I should add that we offered to pay for the neighbor's window, but he insisted on working it out with DS. We knew him fairly well. We knew him fairly well and his three daughters were sweet and well behaved - the oldest often babysat for us - so we trusted his judgment on the matter.
 
Here's my tip, Any time you see a video with a huge Union Jack prominent on it, you know you're likely dealing with a extreme right-wing person, or people, who have a warped sense of what it means to love their nation. Just my experience.

I've also found any headline that throws the word "migrant" in is something best avoided.
 
VaughanJB said:
Here's my tip, Any time you see a video with a huge Union Jack prominent on it, you know you're likely dealing with a extreme right-wing person, or people, who have a warped sense of what it means to love their nation. Just my experience.

I've also found any headline that throws the word "migrant" in is something best avoided.
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Yes, these people are pillars of society. All they want is a chance to say thank you.
 
gruntlabor said:
Yes, these people are pillars of society. All they want is a chance to say thank you.
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Well, the US was built on the backs of immigrants. As for today, they're earning, on average, 86% of what a native born American earns doing the same job. And then, often, the Americans I met were first, second, or maybe third generation immigrants - hardly natives.

In the UK, we had the Commonwealth, and that allowed many migrants to come in.

The word "migrant" does not define illegal migrants, or those applying for asylum under international law. It includes ALL migrants.

77% of migrants in the US arrived legally. 4% were legal, temporary migrants.

So yeah, nothing wrong with migrants as a whole.

ps: Just out of interest, if you care to share - how many generations removed are you from the migrant who came to the US? And from where did they come?
 

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