Where does God live?

JustDave said:
The theoretical physics I've seen suggests that not even energy existed. My problem with that is that I can't wrap my head around it. But my limited understanding of everything is not a reliable test of accuracy. However, it's as fun to contemplate as a god itself. Absolute nothing! Not even a void for it to exist in. And then <poof> a universe is there in about the time it takes to make a sandwich.
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I read a bit of a book once: "A universe from nothing", but he starts out with a quantum vacuum, fluctuating fields of energy, and virtual particles and laws of physics, which told me right away he clearly didn't grasp the meaning of "nothing".

We may not know all the dynamics of what goes on in that imagined scenario, but it's certainly not creation out of nothing. Everything that exists needs a cause unless it has always existed. The old maxim that "From nothing, nothing comes" is still true, at least in my understanding of how things work.

I will try to keep an open mind in case evidence to the contrary comes along, but so far, I'm not aware of anything.
 

MACKTEXAS said:
Your reply to my post #158 rambles off topic, with only minimal feedback to do with what I actually wrote, but as long as you have worked out all the questions of life in a manner which meets your needs, that's fine, and leaves us without reason for further discussion.

I'm getting ready to make a bite of breakfast, then maybe check out what else is going on in SF. Will probably get out awhile this afternoon to enjoy some of the beautiful weather we're expecting in Texas.

Have a good day, Bobcat. Best wishes to you, and all the members who contributed to your thread, even if we disagree, as was expected. :)
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It's tempting, but I will play nice and not comment any further. Enjoy the day and breakfast. :cool:
 
bobcat said:
Ha ha. I have talked around a campfire, but never to one.
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Moses meets the I AM at the burning bush

Don't talk. Just listen. Crackle crackle pop
 

bobcat said:
I will try to keep an open mind in case evidence to the contrary comes along, but so far, I'm not aware of anything.
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Science changes when something contrary and supportable comes along. The something from nothing (big bang) and quantum mechanics are still fairly new, and I think more subject to change than those theories whose predictions have been supported over and over again.

I was watching a video on string theory one time, because I was curious about it, and it was known as a possible solution to something from nothing problem. For several minutes into the thing, I was feeling pretty smart, because I was actually understanding it quite well, and suddenly none of it made any sense, as often happens in the learning process. But I was surprised and relieved when the narrator said something like, "If you are feeling lost at this point, don't feel bad, as most of the experts admit this is where they get lost too." But, I think string theory is being mostly disregarded now, although I'm sure a few are still working on it.

But what I'm getting at, although it's taken me long enough, and what is being continually pointed out in modern physics, is that the physics of the very large, i.e. protons, neutrons, laws of this and that, which hold up so well do not apply to the very small, i.e. quantum particles and the chaos of their behavior. Some would like a unifying theory that explains it all... if there is such a thing. Maybe there is no unifying theory. It would be nice, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.

The best I can do is accept that what I do not know for sure is just what I don't know for sure. This is a good thing. I don't feel compelled to make something up or turn to magic for answers.
 
As for straying from the question, it's interesting in a playful sort of way. But it's based on the assumption that a god exists. Once you make that assumption, the next thing to do is to make up a personality for him and invent questions about where he lives, why he loves Jews as his chosen people, why he hates Jews for killing Jesus, why he takes a bigger interest in curing alcoholics than he does people with brain cancer, and explaining his secret plan for mankind.

Talk about something from nothing. Apparently, when you start from nothing, the sky is the limit. But this is an interesting thread. Thanks for that.
 
"God" lives inside our own minds. Each of us has the capacity to worship one or more "Gods." My favorite God is Mars, the God of War, since mankind has so many wars. I also like to listen to music about Jesus, my God of my favorite music.
 
Mitch86 said:
"God" lives inside our own minds. Each of us has the capacity to worship one or more "Gods." My favorite God is Mars, the God of War, since mankind has so many wars. I also like to listen to music about Jesus, my God of my favorite music.
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My favorite would be Thor. I have a Scandinavian heritage, but that's only part of it. The mythology that surrounds him is joyful, and when he swings that hammer, it's for a good reason. In a fight with Jesus, I bet on Thor's hammer over all of Jesus' loaves and fishes any day. And his achievements are well documented by the Marvel Universe, so don't give me any crap about never having heard of him.
 
JustDave said:
Science changes when something contrary and supportable comes along. The something from nothing (big bang) and quantum mechanics are still fairly new, and I think more subject to change than those theories whose predictions have been supported over and over again.

I was watching a video on string theory one time, because I was curious about it, and it was known as a possible solution to something from nothing problem. For several minutes into the thing, I was feeling pretty smart, because I was actually understanding it quite well, and suddenly none of it made any sense, as often happens in the learning process. But I was surprised and relieved when the narrator said something like, "If you are feeling lost at this point, don't feel bad, as most of the experts admit this is where they get lost too." But, I think string theory is being mostly disregarded now, although I'm sure a few are still working on it.

But what I'm getting at, although it's taken me long enough, and what is being continually pointed out in modern physics, is that the physics of the very large, i.e. protons, neutrons, laws of this and that, which hold up so well do not apply to the very small, i.e. quantum particles and the chaos of their behavior. Some would like a unifying theory that explains it all... if there is such a thing. Maybe there is no unifying theory. It would be nice, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.

The best I can do is accept that what I do not know for sure is just what I don't know for sure. This is a good thing. I don't feel compelled to make something up or turn to magic for answers.
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I'm not sure if it a philosophical or a scientific quandary, or just common sense, but I think my mind might explode if someone pointed out to me how you could bake a real cake with absolutely zero ingredients. You don't get to smuggle in ingredients when no one is watching. You get nothing from nothing. That's the law of logic.

I think what may be at the root of the problem is because we are trapped by the concept of time. However, if we can wrap our mind around the possible reality that time (As we know it) began with the universe. Prior to that, there may not be any time, so eternal may not have any relative meaning. How can you have an infinite amount of time, since time has to start somewhere for it to have passage. Otherwise, time doesn't exist. It may seem a bit nonsensical, but happened before there was time? Contemplate that. Our mind is a prisoner of time. Perhaps time is just a human invention, and in reality, it doesn't exist.

Perhaps there are limits to human reasoning that will exist as long as humans do. The tools we have available to us to make sense of the world just aren't adequate outside of our reality.

In another sense, the universe wasn't a creation if something always existed, and therefore a creator isn't necessary. We couldn't observe nothing anyway, because if we were there to observe it, then again, there is not nothing. Okay, my mind is mush for now.
 
bobcat said:
I'm not sure if it a philosophical or a scientific quandary, or just common sense, but I think my mind might explode if someone pointed out to me how you could bake a real cake with absolutely zero ingredients. You don't get to smuggle in ingredients when no one is watching. You get nothing from nothing. That's the law of logic.
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This is where the physics of the very large differs from the very small. Until now, mankind's knowledge base as dealt only with the very large, because it's all we have been capable of reacting with. While I've never witnessed it, I believe there is large agreement about quantum particles popping in and out of existence. But what are those little devils up to when they are not existing? It does seem like in would be something, rather than nothing. Maybe they are in a state of energy. That would be something. But maybe there is nothing.🤷‍♂️
bobcat said:
I think what may be at the root of the problem is because we are trapped by the concept of time. However, if we can wrap our mind around the possible reality that time (As we know it) began with the universe. Prior to that, there may not be any time, so eternal may not have any relative meaning. How can you have an infinite amount of time, since time has to start somewhere for it to have passage. Otherwise, time doesn't exist.
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I've pondered that same thought. Time does seem real, but maybe not eternal. We can measure time. It's probably real. Eternity on the other hand, is a concept only imagined by man as far as I know. It cannot be measured and it may not be real. Just because we can invent or imagine a thing does not make it real.

If time began with the Big Bang as claimed, it's very hard to imagine that the Bang did not occur during something resembling time, although they say it didn't. But like imagining doesn't make a thing real, not being able to imagine a thing doesn't make it not real, ether. Perplexing things can lead us to resolve the perplexation by leading us to invent beliefs that can fit nice and tidy into our tiny boxes of human comprehension. Remember, we came from monkeys after all. OK, apes, but the point is still valid.
 
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bobcat said:
I'm not sure if it a philosophical or a scientific quandary, or just common sense, but I think my mind might explode if someone pointed out to me how you could bake a real cake with absolutely zero ingredients. You don't get to smuggle in ingredients when no one is watching. You get nothing from nothing. That's the law of logic.

I think what may be at the root of the problem is because we are trapped by the concept of time. However, if we can wrap our mind around the possible reality that time (As we know it) began with the universe. Prior to that, there may not be any time, so eternal may not have any relative meaning. How can you have an infinite amount of time, since time has to start somewhere for it to have passage. Otherwise, time doesn't exist. It may seem a bit nonsensical, but happened before there was time? Contemplate that. Our mind is a prisoner of time. Perhaps time is just a human invention, and in reality, it doesn't exist.

Perhaps there are limits to human reasoning that will exist as long as humans do. The tools we have available to us to make sense of the world just aren't adequate outside of our reality. In another sense, the universe wasn't a creation if something always existed, and therefore a creator isn't necessary. We couldn't observe nothing anyway, because if we were there to observe it, then again, there is not nothing. Okay, my mind is mush for now.
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Indeed NO, both time and stuff never needed to be created or have a beginning if they always existed eternally. I've posted that logic in the past, however many especially those seeing everything mathematically based, have issues involving infinities and lack of everything needing to be created as their own minds revolt from a visceral level on those concepts. You are obviously feeling such too and wondering how to escape those doubts. Don't feel bad about thinking lost because you have plenty of elite company.

And from that rises the IMO usual nonsense narrative especially spouted loudly in media and pushed by religious philosophers that want to use such for argumentation of an OOO like god, that there is nothing beyond the limits of our Big Bang universe nor time.

No, no, and NO. Logically, even without any stuff, 3-Dimensional space exists infinitely. There is no "END" of geometric space. Any ideas trying to limit that due to our measured phenomenons of stuff, space, and our human measurements of time like gravity etc are misguided and ought be dismissed with simple abstract logic. Likewise time never had to begin nor will ever need to end if it always existed. And further, despite how some mathematicians, IMO lost within their own minds, can't let such concepts alone using evidence of what we actually find as physical reality, some will still try and argue time moving backwards happens if they can use math while ignoring some physical phenomenon may have absolute limitations.
 
bobcat said:
the possible reality that time (As we know it) began with the universe. Prior to that, there may not be any time, so eternal may not have any relative meaning. How can you have an infinite amount of time, since time has to start somewhere for it to have passage. Otherwise, time doesn't exist. It may seem a bit nonsensical, but happened before there was time? Contemplate that. Our mind is a prisoner of time. Perhaps time is just a human invention, and in reality, it doesn't exist.
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But the Big Bang IS Time; time is the expansion of the universe that the Big Bang originated. We have no knowledge of anything previous to the Big Bang. The question, for me, is: what is outside the universe?
 
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After being struck by lightening while talking to my girlfriend on the telephone one night when I was 19 and subsequently experiencing a near death experience, all I can tell you is that my higher power descended from a bright light and guided me through the light. Maybe he "lives" on the other side of the light.

What I experienced was way beyond my comprehension and I felt as though my mind attempted to understand my circumstance by placing the event in a context I might understand, based on limited knowledge.

He gave me a choice when He asked, "Do you want to go forth or do you want to go back?" ... and I awoke wondering why I went to sleep talking on the telephone.

I don't think I came back alone. I feel my higher power is with me always. So the question one might ask is, If he "lives" with you, how can he live somewhere / anywhere else? It's your choice to accept Him or not.

When I see threads like this, I chuckle and shake my head, but ultimately am also a little sad. As innocent as someones inquisitive nature is, there are things mankind does not understand but it may not stop someone from trying to place things without limits, neatly into a box
 
Rich said:
Be really cool if I could charge my cell phone with this positive energy. [Love energy]
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But I think you might need some negative energy to complete the circuit -- energy always flows to areas of lower potential, so you'd need both positive and negative Love Energy to charge your phone! Not unless the universal laws of physics have changed recently. Not that I can recall Love Energy ever being taught in physics class.
 
bobcat said:
Ha ha. I have talked around a campfire, but never to one.
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I've talked to a few campfires in the past, especially when I had difficulty keeping the fire going, and in no uncertain terms. I never had one speak back to me, regardless of how much beer I had drunk at the time.
 
David777 said:
Indeed NO, both time and stuff never needed to be created or have a beginning if they always existed eternally. I've posted that logic in the past, however many especially those seeing everything mathematically based, have issues involving infinities and lack of everything needing to be created as their own minds revolt from a visceral level on those concepts. You are obviously feeling such too and wondering how to escape those doubts. Don't feel bad about thinking lost because you have plenty of elite company.

And from that rises the IMO usual nonsense narrative especially spouted loudly in media and pushed by religious philosophers that want to use such for argumentation of an OOO like god, that there is nothing beyond the limits of our Big Bang universe nor time.

No, no, and NO. Logically, even without any stuff, 3-Dimensional space exists infinitely. There is no "END" of geometric space. Any ideas trying to limit that due to our measured phenomenons of stuff, space, and our human measurements of time like gravity etc are misguided and ought be dismissed with simple abstract logic. Likewise time never had to begin nor will ever need to end if it always existed. And further, despite how some mathematicians, IMO lost within their own minds, can't let such concepts alone using evidence of what we actually find as physical reality, some will still try and argue time moving backwards happens if they can use math while ignoring some physical phenomenon may have absolute limitations.
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Well, there are never any shortage of claims, but for me, I prefer to listen to all sides and weigh them according to supporting evidence and logic. There are limits to our knowledge, and I have made my peace with that.
 
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Magna-Carta said:
God is, God was, and God always will be everywhere. In the cupboard; under the stairs; Upstairs and downstairs, In my lady's chamber.

The legend that was Dave Allan:

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That is hilarious. Thanks for sharing. Probably not for those who don't see the humor in it though.
 
Is there an end or edge to space or is space infinite? The answer can tell us whether the universe is self-replicating --I mean, whether it can expand to the end of space and then rebound, by momentum, to contract, moving back to the egg again, although I understand that perpetual motion is not possible. But :unsure: EITHER WAY the universe would be infinite, so maybe infinity does really exist, but there! Like Bobcat, I'm blowing my own mind.
 

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