Musings on shopping for a new vehicle.

Trade

Trade

Well-known Member
My current vehicle is a 2009 Honda accord with 169,000 miles on it. It's been a very dependable car but just recently I had a $1400 repair bill on it and I am starting to feel like it might be getting to the point where things start to go on it. So I've been looking at new cars. I've got it pretty much narrowed down to three options. A Subaru Outback, a Honda CRV, ot a Toyota Rav4. But one thing I am finding to my dislikeing is all the damned technology on these new ones. One example is this auto stop start feature.

What the Hell? Who would want their vehile to shut off every time you stop at a stop light? First of all I learned that starting up a car takes as much gas as idling for 10 minutes. So how does having it shut off save gas? Well I looked it up and apparently my knowledge is now obsolete. The 10 minute rule applied to carbureted vehicles. Supposedly fuel injected vehicles only use 10 seconds worth of gas at idle to restart. At least that's what it says on the internet. I'm having a hard time buying that.

On top of that when I have to stop on a road for whatever reason I am always checking my rear view mirror to see if some yayhoo behind me is asleep at the wheel and is barreling down the road and about to crash into me. So I'm looking to see if I have an escape route. And I don't want to have to wait for my car to restart.

Then there's the wear and tear on your starter having to restart your car over and over and over. How long before I'm going to need a new starter? Mine went out in my Honda a couple of years ago and it cost me about a thousand bucks to get it replaced.
 

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That Lady in PA said:
If you don't like that feature, disable it. You DO have that option.
What other tech are you leery of?
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It has to be disabled every time you get in the car. If you want to permanently disable it you have to buy some after market gadget. As for the other tech I don't like, probably all of it. I suppose some of it is nice when it's working right. But when it goes out it costs an arm and a leg to have it fixed.
 
That Lady in PA said:
If you don't like that feature, disable it. You DO have that option.
What other tech are you leery of?
Click to expand...
You can shut it off each time you get in the car but I have yet to find a way to permanently disable that feature on my car.

And Trade I agree with you about the issues caused with the stop/start feature. Every mechanical or electrical part on the car has a life span, every time a part is used it's one use closer to never working again. I will happily give up a tiny bit of emissions or gas miliage if I don't have to service my starter, flywheel or relays every few years. Then there's the hesitation and clunk everytime you pull away from a stop, I absolutly hate that.
 
I did computer security for a living so this one really ticks me off. Unless you really want it, avoid signing up for the extras where you can start your car remotely, find where your car is, anything that lets them communicate with your vehicle. Unfortunately this includes the remote help button which most people our age want. Either way in the setup there should be a privacy option. My Honda Accord has that on the opening screen, enable it. ALL car companies are known to sell your data to anyone who wants to pay for it.

Many people say they don't care but there have been cases where the data was bought and found it's way to the persons insurance company. Sudden braking? One guys insurance doubled because of that event, which does get recorded and if they can they will download it. His insurance went up without them even knowing the reason was that caused it. Should have hit that squirrel.

Also and even worse... We just bought a used Toyota Corolla hybrid in California. Many manufacturers now install a "security device" to all their cars adding anywhere from $1k to $2k to the price which is not optional and is nothing but a GPS tracking device (see above). They originally used the GPS for financed cars so they could locate them to repo them if necessary. Now that data is so valuable everybody gets one. Even new cars. At least with Toyota , and if one manufatuurer does it you can bet most others do too.

So even if you don't enable the extras they can still track you. You can opt out of this too but most people don't even know it's there. They won't remove it until you buy the car and maybe not even then. One problem is that they are so poorly designed that if the car sits for an extended peirod it drains the battery because it never turns off. Even the OEM ones installed in cars have had issues with battery drain. Especially Subaru.

Plus be sure it's not a hidden item not on the sticker price until you sit down to negotiate. Then it will appear as a security device and they will offer to give it to you for free and say they just dropped the price of the car $2000, back to the sticker price. Negotiation over. This is exactly what they tried to pull on us. We went to a different dealer and same story except the security device was only $1k. Keep an eye out for that scam and make them remove it.

Here is what I am talking about .

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
 
If I do decide to buy a new vehicle I will do all my negotiating by email over the internet. Why? Because I find it's a lot easier to be a hard ass over the internet than it is in person. :)

For example take the Subaru Outback I was looking at. After test driving it I waited a day, then requested an OTD (out the door) price by email. The salesman bumped my request to "the manager" who came back with $39,522. This was on a vehicle that had an MSRP of $36,031. Then there was tax tag and title, doc fees, and some other nebulous charges that brought it up to the $39,522. I replied by telling him via email that I don't see any reason to continue this and left it at that. A couple hours later he came back to me by email with $37,427 with the caveat that I had to come back that very day and complete the deal. I just ignored that one.

The next day the salesman emailed me asking if I had thought about the offer. I replied that I wasn't interested in any offer that had a deadline on it. A couple hours later the sales manager emailed me and said the offer would be good whenever I was ready. And that's where it stands today. So they came down 5.3% from their first OTD quote. So I'm going to use that as my benchmark for any vehicle I might decide to buy. First I'll ask for their OTD price. Then I'll make a counter offer of 5.3% less. If they take it, I'll buy the vehicle. If they try to counter offer I'll reply thanks , but no thanks, end of conversation.
 
MoBeans said:
I did computer security for a living so this one really ticks me off. Unless you really want it, avoid signing up for the extras where you can start your car remotely, find where your car is, anything that lets them communicate with your vehicle. Unfortunately this includes the remote help button which most people our age want. Either way in the setup there should be a privacy option. My Honda Accord has that on the opening screen, enable it. ALL car companies are known to sell your data to anyone who wants to pay for it.

Many people say they don't care but there have been cases where the data was bought and found it's way to the persons insurance company. Sudden braking? One guys insurance doubled because of that event, which does get recorded and if they can they will download it. His insurance went up without them even knowing the reason was that caused it. Should have hit that squirrel.

Also and even worse... We just bought a used Toyota Corolla hybrid in California. Many manufacturers now install a "security device" to all their cars adding anywhere from $1k to $2k to the price which is not optional and is nothing but a GPS tracking device (see above). They originally used the GPS for financed cars so they could locate them to repo them if necessary. Now that data is so valuable everybody gets one. Even new cars. At least with Toyota , and if one manufatuurer does it you can bet most others do too.

So even if you don't enable the extras they can still track you. You can opt out of this too but most people don't even know it's there. They won't remove it until you buy the car and maybe not even then. One problem is that they are so poorly designed that if the car sits for an extended peirod it drains the battery because it never turns off. Even the OEM ones installed in cars have had issues with battery drain. Especially Subaru.

Plus be sure it's not a hidden item not on the sticker price until you sit down to negotiate. Then it will appear as a security device and they will offer to give it to you for free and say they just dropped the price of the car $2000, back to the sticker price. Negotiation over. This is exactly what they tried to pull on us. We went to a different dealer and same story except the security device was only $1k. Keep an eye out for that scam and make them remove it.

Here is what I am talking about .

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Click to expand...

As far as I am concerned the only legitimate charges over and above those for factory installed options are Tax, tag, title, and Doc fees. On the vehicles I am looking at those fees should run about $2200.
 
Trade said:
I'm considering that.
Click to expand...
Old cars are a better option than paying today's over inflated prices
I bought a 2006 Honda Accord for $13,000 in 2012 and I'm still driving it.
Its close to 200,000 miles. It burns oil.

But its been a bargain. Something you won't find today.

All the added tech is to make sure you never get to 200,000 miles ever again without expensive repairs to the unnecessary addons.
 
I'm old enough to remember when "Cash is King" was the saying when buying a car. But those days are long gone. These days dealers make more money on financing than they do on sales. So even though I can afford tp pay cash, I will go ahead and finance with them so that I can have an easier time getting a lower OTD price.

Then as soon as I get my payment book I'll pay it off. The dealership won't like it but I figure better they take a hit than me. Of course you have to make sure the loan they set you up with doesn't have a prepayment penalty. One way to be sure is to get a 6 year, 72 month loan. It's against Federal law to have a prepayment penalty on any loan over 60 months.
 
Trade said:
My current vehicle is a 2009 Honda accord with 169,000 miles on it. It's been a very dependable car but just recently I had a $1400 repair bill on it and I am starting to feel like it might be getting to the point where things start to go on it.
Click to expand...
driven on average 10k miles a year that's not a lot. you didn't mention what the $1,400.00 was for or if you suspect the engine or transmission will fail soon. <----- those two are major cost items. Other than those two, weighing the cost of new against a very dependable Honda is something only you know if you really "need" or just "want" a new way to get to point a & back.

As for that PITA stop feature it's easy to get used to shutting it off. The other gadgets are easy to get used to.
 
I have a RAM truck that's a hybrid with the start/stop feature. I have gotten used to it, and it gets me better gas mileage than if I didn't have it. If you stop at a light with your foot on the brake for more than 5 seconds, it shuts off, but the instant you release the brake, it activates the electric mode and acceleration is no problem.

Also, from what I've learned is these systems are built with enhanced systems to prevent the ordinary wear one might expect with more starts and stops.
 
I like most of the features of newer cars. Auto headlights and wipers, auto dimming mirror, backup camera, blind spot monitoring, phone connectivity and hands free use. Those are all great features and not sure why anyone would balk at them, it's not like you have to set them up everytime you drive. The feature I like a lot is the heads up driving display, projects your speed and GPS turns on the windshield. I tend to drive one handed with hand at top of steering wheel and that always blocks typical speedometer, with heads up display I can now always see my speed.
 
Trade said:
My current vehicle is a 2009 Honda accord with 169,000 miles on it. It's been a very dependable car but just recently I had a $1400 repair bill on it and I am starting to feel like it might be getting to the point where things start to go on it. So I've been looking at new cars. I've got it pretty much narrowed down to three options. A Subaru Outback, a Honda CRV, ot a Toyota Rav4. But one thing I am finding to my dislikeing is all the damned technology on these new ones. One example is this auto stop start feature.

What the Hell? Who would want their vehile to shut off every time you stop at a stop light? First of all I learned that starting up a car takes as much gas as idling for 10 minutes. So how does having it shut off save gas? Well I looked it up and apparently my knowledge is now obsolete. The 10 minute rule applied to carbureted vehicles. Supposedly fuel injected vehicles only use 10 seconds worth of gas at idle to restart. At least that's what it says on the internet. I'm having a hard time buying that.

On top of that when I have to stop on a road for whatever reason I am always checking my rear view mirror to see if some yayhoo behind me is asleep at the wheel and is barreling down the road and about to crash into me. So I'm looking to see if I have an escape route. And I don't want to have to wait for my car to restart.

Then there's the wear and tear on your starter having to restart your car over and over and over. How long before I'm going to need a new starter? Mine went out in my Honda a couple of years ago and it cost me about a thousand bucks to get it replaced.
Click to expand...
I have a 2021 Hyundai Elantra- not exactly overloaded with ultra new electronics. But there are some features I don't like. You just click them off. Check if what you don't want is able to be shut off.
While you may not like all that electronics can do, when you start using some of them, ayyaah, they ain't that bad.
 
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Trade said:
My current vehicle is a 2009 Honda accord with 169,000 miles on it. It's been a very dependable car but just recently I had a $1400 repair bill on it and I am starting to feel like it might be getting to the point where things start to go on it. So I've been looking at new cars. I've got it pretty much narrowed down to three options. A Subaru Outback, a Honda CRV, ot a Toyota Rav4. But one thing I am finding to my dislikeing is all the damned technology on these new ones. One example is this auto stop start feature.

What the Hell? Who would want their vehile to shut off every time you stop at a stop light? First of all I learned that starting up a car takes as much gas as idling for 10 minutes. So how does having it shut off save gas? Well I looked it up and apparently my knowledge is now obsolete. The 10 minute rule applied to carbureted vehicles. Supposedly fuel injected vehicles only use 10 seconds worth of gas at idle to restart. At least that's what it says on the internet. I'm having a hard time buying that.

On top of that when I have to stop on a road for whatever reason I am always checking my rear view mirror to see if some yayhoo behind me is asleep at the wheel and is barreling down the road and about to crash into me. So I'm looking to see if I have an escape route. And I don't want to have to wait for my car to restart.

Then there's the wear and tear on your starter having to restart your car over and over and over. How long before I'm going to need a new starter? Mine went out in my Honda a couple of years ago and it cost me about a thousand bucks to get it replaced.
Click to expand...
My '25 Audi A5 has a 4 cylinder turbo and a mild hybrid engine to improve mpg. Audis have had start/stop technology since at least my '14 A4 and I've never read on any forums that it has affected engine longevity. It was annoying at first, but I just let it do its thing rather than turning it off each time I get into the car. As for an escape route, a few months after getting my '17 A4 I was sitting under an underpass waiting to turn left and some idiot ran right into the back of me. I couldn't have moved whether my car was in Drive or Park.

As for the technology, my Audi has just enough. I can use Apple Carplay and Google Maps in it and find both beneficial. There are still physical A/C buttons and being in TX that's all I really use on a day to day basis. I never had one issue with the technology in my '17 Audi through 9 years of owning it. Sure, I had to learn it but it was worth it.

BTW, all three cars you are considering a great and should be reliable, although I've recently read that Hondas are not living up to their old standards. The Subi consistently gets great reviews and it's hard to kill a Toyota.

Lastly, I'd say go for it. My A4 was 9 years old and had less than 36k miles on it but I wanted something new and I haven't been sorry. The new car has added enjoyment to my life. It may be the last car I ever own.
 
Dave03 said:
As far as getting a new vehicle, I don't have any intentions to. But, like others, I think the auto stop/start feature is nonsense.
hopefully, this will be the last vehicle I ever own.

I do, however, like the backup camera feature on newer cars. My sister in law's handicap van has it, and I use it.
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I've had a backup camera for quite a few years now and don't know how I ever got along with out.
 
I had a 17 year-old Toyota Corolla that only had 73K miles on it. The only thing I ever needed was tires, brakes, and oil changes. When I decided I wanted a new car, I looked at Toyota, Honda and Subaru. Subaru had overtaken the other two and was number one in many areas now.

I did want some of the safety features such as a back up camera. I was able to get the safety features that I wanted with buying the base model. I bought the Subaru Impreza. It was also less expensive than the other brands of cars. Ended up snowing here on three different occasions where I absolutely had to drive and I love the all wheel drive that you can turn on so you don’t slide around in the snow. We don’t get a lot of snow but when we do, that’s a real benefit.

I originally thought I would drive my Toyota forever, but I have to say that I’m really enjoying driving my new car. I’ve now had it six months and it’s been worth every penny. I ended up taking a car loan for half of it because they offered me 2.9%. At that rate, my investments are making more money so I will keep the loan for the four years.

What had happened to a couple of my older friends as they kept driving their old cars was eventually they started to need many repairs. They both said before you know it you have spent a lot of money on repairs and you still have an old car where things are breaking.

So they then bought new cars but by that time being in their mid 80s, they realize they didn’t have that many years left to drive them and they wish they would’ve bought the new cars when they were younger. That also influenced my decision.
 
We just bought a 2025 Subaru Forester so as to have the safety features such as the forward radar sensor, and associated warning feature. Love having a backup camera. The sales gal at the dealership told us about the Auto Stop-Start system, and showed us how to turn that and other features off if we wanted to.
 

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