GB: No Freedom of Speech Anymore

RambleTamble said:
It was the leaders of the countries who were responsible for all the damage caused by colonialization -- not the general population. But they're not the ones who are affected by immigration since most of them live in upscale neighborhoods. It's mainly the working class who are affected and at times being replaced.

That said, European colonialization has caused enormous damage around the world, as has U.S. regime change of foreign governments, so we're all responsible for the migration crisis.

What a mess we've made of the world.
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I don't agree with first sentence - everyone who participates in something is responsible - we cant just excuse things on 'following orders of leaders'

I do agree with your second two sentences
 

The general population are hardly ever responsible. We have leaders, and every leader I can remember have been seduced by self-interest.

For example - the Chinese government - IMO - is evil for what it does to it's people. Chinese people are not evil. Same in Russia, Iran, and Israel. I don't blame the people. Most people understand what it's like to starve. Most people know that we need to love and cherish our young. Most people know we need to get along. Those in power? Not so much.
 
Irishdude said:
My goodness, it seems the problem is even worse than I had thought:

‘Honour-based’ abuse in England increases 60% in two years

Forced marriage cases will stay 'underground' after law change

Government says sharia courts in line with British values

British women ‘being forced into polygamous relationships’
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It's so easy to post such a thing. Go searching for all the worst stories and pretend it's the new norm. My question is, how many positive stories did you research? For example, overall, immigrants contribute more taxes than they extract. Moreso, migrants represent, at most, 1% of GDP. The point being, it's a distraction from the real problems facing our country. But while people are angry about it, they're not angry about more obvious problems.
 

January said:
I did not say you personally should be blamed or that anyone whose direct ancestors did anything should be blamed.

I did say European influx over time took over native culture (until quite recently when indiginous cultures have been recognised and validated) - that includes people who moved to US in early part of last century
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This is what you said:

Your ancestors were still part of the European influx who took over native culture - the fact they were persecuted in their original lands doesn't change that

As I said, by the time my ancestors got here in the early 20th Century, "native culture" was long gone. There was nothing to take over, especially for Irish peasants who came to New York City to work in construction or, in my family's case, in the "funeral livery" business (hearse drivers). My ancestors emphatically were not "part of the European influx who took over native culture." I'm sorry you can't accept this basic truth.

I'm conservative, you're liberal. Let's put each other on ignore and move on.
 
In the case of Scotland, the Scots were/are the indigenous people. The fact that indigenous people in other countries and regions were displaced doesn't mean the people of Scotland should simply allow it to happen to them. They're not going to say, "well, other people have suffered, so I guess we have to, too!" And I'm sure the indigenous people of other countries who were displaced fought for their survival. They just lost the fight.
 
Irishdude said:
My ancestors emphatically were not "part of the European influx who took over native culture." I'm sorry you can't accept this basic truth.
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displacement of native culture didnt stop i n the early 20th century. sorry you cant accept that basic truth

I don't put people on ignore - that just creates an echo chamber where you only see posts you agree with.

but you can if you want.
 
RambleTamble said:
In the case of Scotland, the Scots were/are the indigenous people. The fact that indigenous people in other countries and regions were displaced doesn't mean the people of Scotland should simply allow it to happen to them. They're not going to say, "well, other people have suffered, so I guess we have to, too!" And I'm sure the indigenous people of other countries who were displaced fought for their survival. They just lost the fight.
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the fact that Europeans colonised countries means there is now a mixture of people in most countries of the world - that will therefore work both ways and a mixture of different origin people will become Scottish just as Scottish people became people of other countries.

- we live in multi cultural societies and we can do that without anyone 'suffering' . Culture is not static or mono, it is a living and evolving thing.
 
RambleTamble said:
In the case of Scotland, the Scots were/are the indigenous people. The fact that indigenous people in other countries and regions were displaced doesn't mean the people of Scotland should simply allow it to happen to them. They're not going to say, "well, other people have suffered, so I guess we have to, too!" And I'm sure the indigenous people of other countries who were displaced fought for their survival. They just lost the fight.
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yer damn right...!! I can assure you of that , as a Proud Scot born and raised :p:p
 
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Irishdude said:
My goodness, it seems the problem is even worse than I had thought:

‘Honour-based’ abuse in England increases 60% in two years

Forced marriage cases will stay 'underground' after law change

Government says sharia courts in line with British values

British women ‘being forced into polygamous relationships’
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Sadly it's not worse than what we already know here..in fact it's probably even worse than any of those statistics.......

The story of Fozia in your link.. is rare.. rare in the fact she escaped her forced marriage with the support of her parents.. the opposite is usually the truth... and for as many Parents who are brought to justice for killing their own child for defying their wishes to marry or going against their orders to not dress in western mode.. .. then probably at least another 2 or 3 go undiscovered
 
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hollydolly said:
yer damn right...!! I can ssure you of that , as a Proud Scot born and raised :p:p
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and you live in England and want to maintain Scottish heritage - so people from Scotland move to other places, people from other places move to Scotland... and they want to keep their heritage too and over time you get a melding or evolving multi faceted culture

works both ways.
 
January said:
and you live in England and want to maintain Scottish heritage - so people from Scotland move to other places, people from other places move to Scotland... and they want to keep their heritage too and over time you get a melding or evolving multi faceted culture

works both ways.
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There's something to be said for unique cultures, too! Who wants to live in a world where everyone has been melded and homogenized down into one culture. What would be the point of traveling to other countries?
 
well, cultures aren't going to stay unique and static unless they are isolated from rest of world

But I agree - we don't need to meld and homogenize into one mono culture - people moving to places can retain their own heritage and new places will develop new sub cultures and culture will evolve and mix over time.

Basically what I said before - so Scottish people, for example, will move to other places and retain their heritage, people from other places will move to Scotland and retain their heritage - and over time new sub cultures existing side by side and interlooped will develop as people mingle together
Nobody suffers and nobody has to fight about it.

and it works both ways.
 
January said:
displacement of native culture didnt stop i n the early 20th century. sorry you cant accept that basic truth

I don't put people on ignore - that just creates an echo chamber where you only see posts you agree with.

but you can if you want.
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It's a basic truth that displacement of native culture was not an issue in New York City in the early 20th century when my ancestors arrived here.

See you never.
 
RambleTamble said:
There's something to be said for unique cultures, too! Who wants to live in a world where everyone has been melded and homogenized down into one culture. What would be the point of traveling to other countries?
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Irishdude said:
It's a basic truth that displacement of native culture was not an issue in New York City in the early 20th century when my ancestors arrived here.

See you never.
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it is a basic fact that displacement of native cultures was a nation wide thing until the recent resurgence in acknowledgment and celebration of same.
Same here in Australia and many other colonised countries. Europeans had taken over and continued to push down indigious cultures i n an attempt to have everyone assimilate - which meant everyone do things their way and history show their side etc

only relatively recently that history has been seen from other perspectives than the dominant European (and mainly male) one in our countries.


PS always amuses me when somebody makes a point of "I am going to ignore you" - and then responds to your very next post :ROFLMAO:
 
Dr.Colosso said:
Just saw this:


They wouldn't dare rip a Quran out of an imam's hand, but a Bible out of a pastor's hand is fine. They only bothered him after he spoke to a muslim. That was Islamophobic.
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The guy was warned that he was causing a breach of the peace, and was asked to move on. He refused. He got arrested. Whatever was in his hands were going to be taken off him, be it a Bible or the Quran. Do you have a video where an Imam was allowed to keep holding his Quran in a similar circumstance?

Sometimes people can't follow simple rules. And sometimes they get arrested because they don't have the good sense to avoid breaking the law. Others may want to cry about it, but it's the same law that stop buskers from using amplified instruments (in so much as it can constitute a breach of peace, but isn't always dealt with due to licensing from local authorities etc.)
 
VaughanJB said:
The guy was warned that he was causing a breach of the peace, and was asked to move on. He refused. He got arrested. Whatever was in his hands were going to be taken off him, be it a Bible or the Quran. Do you have a video where an Imam was allowed to keep holding his Quran in a similar circumstance?

Sometimes people can't follow simple rules. And sometimes they get arrested because they don't have the good sense to avoid breaking the law. Others may want to cry about it, but it's the same law that stop buskers from using amplified instruments (in so much as it can constitute a breach of peace, but isn't always dealt with due to licensing from local authorities etc.)
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Why is it illegal? Holland is quite atheist, but not aggressive. You don't need a license to preach or pray for people. Only if you want to use a podium you have to tell the city. Sometimes people sing Gospel in a group at the train station or you can yell Free Palestine. Only hate speech is forbidden. If he walked around like a Westboro baptist yelling about hell and that God hates everyone, okay, but he wasn't doing that.
 
If he was causing a breach of the peace I guess he was too loud or harrassing people as they walked past - I dont like bible bashers doing that either.

I wouldn't like Koran or Torah or any other religion bashers either - but have never encountered them, only bible ones IME
 
well, exactly - leaving aside hate speech issues, anyone loudly proclaiming something and getting in passengers way and harrassing them should be arrested for breach of the peace - doesn't matter whether it is a bible, a Dr Suess book, whatever - that isnt the issue.
 
Dr.Colosso said:
Why is it illegal? Holland is quite atheist, but not aggressive. You don't need a license to preach or pray for people. Only if you want to use a podium you have to tell the city. Sometimes people sing Gospel in a group at the train station or you can yell Free Palestine. Only hate speech is forbidden. If he walked around like a Westboro baptist yelling about hell and that God hates everyone, okay, but he wasn't doing that.
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You seem to have it all wrong. He was not approached or arrested because of his religious belief. Breach of Peace is a later revision of a Public Order Act of 1935. It's not a new law. In one form or another it's been around for centuries.

Breach of Peace:

is a legal term for disorderly conduct, actions, or threats that disturb public calm, causing fear or alarm to individuals or their property, ranging from shouting/swearing to violence, allowing police to intervene to prevent or stop it, even if no actual harm occurs, just the likelihood of it.

You don't have to agree with a particular arrest, but the law is well known.
 
Dr.Colosso said:
Why is it illegal? Holland is quite atheist, but not aggressive. You don't need a license to preach or pray for people. Only if you want to use a podium you have to tell the city. Sometimes people sing Gospel in a group at the train station or you can yell Free Palestine. Only hate speech is forbidden. If he walked around like a Westboro baptist yelling about hell and that God hates everyone, okay, but he wasn't doing that.
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That’s strange, because I clearly remember being kicked out of a youth hostel in Amsterdam back in November 1961 and having the police called on me when I was still in my teens. My offense? Practicing silence. I had been reading a book on Zen Buddhism and in a fit of youthful idealism I had decided to stop speaking for several days, under the misguided belief that it would somehow enrich my mind.

Anyway, never before or since have I encountered people in positions of authority in a Western nation who struck me as so petty and tyrannical. That being said, I did very much appreciate the ladies in the windows, and once I discovered them, I was like a kid with a sweet tooth running amok in a candy store.
 

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