Some similarity to the condo collapse in Florida. 
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/17/1016...-structural-collapses-happened-40-years-ago-t
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/17/1016...-structural-collapses-happened-40-years-ago-t
40 Years Ago Today, One of the Deadliest US Accidental Structural Collapses Happened
- Thread starter SeaBreeze
- Start date
hawkdon
Well-known Member
- Location
- Liberty MO
Yes, lived down the road from KC a piece....that was a real
disaster...turned out the rods holding the walk to the one
above use only ab out 1/2 inch rods and nuts...they failed...
Knew some of those that were there also....
disaster...turned out the rods holding the walk to the one
above use only ab out 1/2 inch rods and nuts...they failed...
Knew some of those that were there also....
Makes one really think about what structures they want to walk into. We have no way of knowing if building codes were followed or the quality of the material.
From 2017:
25 years after Andrew: Are Florida's building codes really being weakened?
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/l...ding-codes-really-being-weakened/67-466452162 via @10TampaBay
"But a change made earlier this year by state lawmakers and approved by the governor -Rick Scott (R)- is causing a wave of disagreement over what it could mean for the future of those standards.
Critics of the change suggest it's a direct ploy to begin weakening the current building codes in order to ease rising costs of home construction."
From 2017:
25 years after Andrew: Are Florida's building codes really being weakened?
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/l...ding-codes-really-being-weakened/67-466452162 via @10TampaBay
"But a change made earlier this year by state lawmakers and approved by the governor -Rick Scott (R)- is causing a wave of disagreement over what it could mean for the future of those standards.
Critics of the change suggest it's a direct ploy to begin weakening the current building codes in order to ease rising costs of home construction."
Alligatorob
SF VIP
I remember that well, I was a young(er) engineer at the time, it was a big deal. Tragic...
A lesson learned = we need to keep in mind was that in the KC thing it took a while and so good forensic work to figure out what happened, but in the end it was figured. I am sure the Champlain Towers failed for different reasons, but I am also pretty sure we will figure it out. However as with the KC Towers it will take time and some good engineering work to figure out. The Champlain Towers may be a more complex a puzzle (maybe not), but I am pretty confident it will be solved.
A lesson learned = we need to keep in mind was that in the KC thing it took a while and so good forensic work to figure out what happened, but in the end it was figured. I am sure the Champlain Towers failed for different reasons, but I am also pretty sure we will figure it out. However as with the KC Towers it will take time and some good engineering work to figure out. The Champlain Towers may be a more complex a puzzle (maybe not), but I am pretty confident it will be solved.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
I also remember that. Very sad.
![ec1011241dabb12b9ead448ad35df93f[1].gif](https://www.seniorforums.com/data/attachments/151/151215-e09a927728d3966990921e1fe5a3a677.jpg "ec1011241dabb12b9ead448ad35df93f[1].gif")
Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
A simple oversight caused the deaths of 114 people.
After a design change to the support rods, the fabricators should have added stiffener plates to the beams to be able to handle the additional stress on the 4th floor beams to prevent them from splitting. The engineering company relied on the fabricators to add them, or that's what they claimed, anyway. Fabricators aren't structural engineers, so that excuse was actually ridiculous. Fabricators follow engineering drawings. They don't engineer.
None of the engineers recalculated the loads after the design change. Had they done so, they would have immediately recognized that the design was inadequate. But all it needed was some stiffener plates to prevent the beams from splitting and probably would have only cost a few hundred dollars to fix it.
It's really bizarre that nobody caught the mistake, but that's what happened, and it wound up costing 114 lives, many more injuries, and over 100 million dollars in payments from lawsuits and penalties, and the engineering firm was prohibited from operating in Missouri after that.
After a design change to the support rods, the fabricators should have added stiffener plates to the beams to be able to handle the additional stress on the 4th floor beams to prevent them from splitting. The engineering company relied on the fabricators to add them, or that's what they claimed, anyway. Fabricators aren't structural engineers, so that excuse was actually ridiculous. Fabricators follow engineering drawings. They don't engineer.
None of the engineers recalculated the loads after the design change. Had they done so, they would have immediately recognized that the design was inadequate. But all it needed was some stiffener plates to prevent the beams from splitting and probably would have only cost a few hundred dollars to fix it.
It's really bizarre that nobody caught the mistake, but that's what happened, and it wound up costing 114 lives, many more injuries, and over 100 million dollars in payments from lawsuits and penalties, and the engineering firm was prohibited from operating in Missouri after that.
Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
The rods were 1-1/4" Ø and they weren't what failed; it was the beams that failed. They split because of the additional stress on the 4th floor beams due to a design change.
Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
I remember that day quite well. In July, 1981 I was working for IBM and our main office was just a couple of blocks from the Hyatt. It happened in the early evening during a big Friday night party. At the time, I was assigned to the computer room at the Hallmark Cards headquarters right across the street from the Hyatt. I had left work about an hour before the collapse. The next morning, and into early the next week, the entire Crown Center area was blocked off with emergency vehicles and crews. Over a hundred died, and hundreds more were injured. Getting to and from the office, and Hallmark, required taking the side streets for several days.
Everyone in KC was devastated, and the city didn't return to normal for many weeks. The Hyatt was, and is, a very nice hotel, but investigations showed some serious construction "shortcuts" and mistakes made during its construction.
Everyone in KC was devastated, and the city didn't return to normal for many weeks. The Hyatt was, and is, a very nice hotel, but investigations showed some serious construction "shortcuts" and mistakes made during its construction.