America's conversion to a single payer system easy peasy.

Knight

Knight

Well-known Member
Everyone on Medicare & Medicaid, Veterans, active duty military personal within the borders of America & employees covered by employers will change from what they have now to the government run single payer system. Funding will come from taxes collected from those working and employers payments to insurance companies used for health care. In addition all deductions for Medicare and budget monies used for Medicaid will be redirected. to the new government agency set up to administer the single payer system.

During the conversion unpaid patient health care needs will be documented, supplied to the patient for submission to the new agency for payment.

Insurance companies will still be able to provide for those that want extra coverage to insure preferential treatment.

All personal information will be stored in a secure government data base so treatment and diagnosis can be accessed anywhere in America.

To avoid confusion about who is or isn't covered, phase in will begin immediately after the new government agency is staffed and all citizens are identified as having the legal right to coverage.

That should work. Or not!
 

One way or another, the U.S. is going to HAVE TO transition to some sort of UHC. Our present "for Profit" system is slowly beginning to implode, and the costs are becoming prohibitive for more and more, every year. Just yesterday, the local news said that BCBS is pulling out of the Obamacare plans for the Kansas City area, in 2018. That will leave at least 20,000 in that area with no coverage. This is going to continue to happen, in areas where there is only one insurance company participating in the ACA/Obamacare.
 
Good or bad I believe it will come to that.

I think employers will gross up employee wages with a one time adjustment for the amount that they currently spend to subsidize employee health care and remove themselves from the whole issue. When that day comes it will be Medicare for all.

The million dollar question is what will the premiums/taxes and the coverage look like.
 

The problem with single payer and other systems is the focus is on who and how a bill will paid. Instead more focus needs to be placed on the actual costs of physical care. Throw insurance out of the equation for a minute. Why is one night in the hospital cost $3000 to $5000 or why did one band aid cost $5 or bag of basically salt water cost $35.

The way actual CARE is delivered needs to addressed as well. I for one am an advocate of urgent care type clinics which should help eliminate emergency room visits and/or the $200-$300 office visit. Also even though I think they waste money on the 'free' home visit every year I would shift those resources from people already seeing doctors several times a year to someone who doesn't see a doctor once a year.

And people need to use common sense as well, not the emergency room for every medical need when their doctor isn't available. If you injure your ankle playing a sport or working why not go directly to an orthopedic or sports medicine clinic or urgent care office right away. It's frequently not that difficult to figure what kind of specialists one might need. The industry has to accept this practice as well.

Step by step brick by brick the US health care system will have to be changed. Not by one piece of legislative action.
 
Aunt Bea said:
Good or bad I believe it will come to that.

I think employers will gross up employee wages with a one time adjustment for the amount that they currently spend to subsidize employee health care and remove themselves from the whole issue. When that day comes it will be Medicare for all.

The million dollar question is what will the premiums/taxes and the coverage look like.
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With a single payer system just like other places in our world premiums would be for those that wanted to buy additional coverage from an insurance company.

The question of taxes gets a little tricky. Would better paid be taxed more? Would taking the taxed money supporting Medicare Medicaid and veterans be enough to cover the cost of the multitude of reasons people seek medical care? Would money businesses spend for employee health care benefits in combination with the diverted tax money close the cost.


Toss in controlled hospital and doctor fees then pharma costs. Would less translate to less innovation and availability to doctors ?

Then there is the tax deduction for high cost health care. That goes away.

Insurance company employment would take a hit, job loss in a major section of the economy decreases the tax revenue. No mystery what the end result of less taxable revenue is.


There is no easy peasy. The variety of issues to be resolved is as confusing as what Adam does on mother's day.
 
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There is a difference between "single payer" and government run healthcare (socialized medicine) .. Medicare is "single payer"... that means the government collects the premiums and pays out to private Healthcare providers. The VA is true socialized or government healthcare. The Government owns the facilities and hospitals... the employees including the doctors work for the government. To me Medicare for all would be the better option.
 
Lolly said:
There is a difference between "single payer" and government run healthcare (socialized medicine) .. Medicare is "single payer"... that means the government collects the premiums and pays out to private Healthcare providers. The VA is true socialized or government healthcare. The Government owns the facilities and hospitals... the employees including the doctors work for the government. To me Medicare for all would be the better option.
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I strongly agree, Lolly.
 
WhatInThe said:
And people need to use common sense as well, not the emergency room for every medical need when their doctor isn't available. If you injure your ankle playing a sport or working why not go directly to an orthopedic or sports medicine clinic or urgent care office right away. It's frequently not that difficult to figure what kind of specialists one might need. The industry has to accept this practice as well.
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This. We have orthopedic "express" clinics here. I've gone to them when I ruptured a biceps tendon, and for steroid injections in my trigger fingers. No waiting weeks for an appointment, and the same copay as a regular specialist visit!
 
Trade said:
A small but encouraging step forward IMO.


http://ktla.com/2017/06/02/400-billion-single-payer-health-care-plan-advances-in-california-senate/
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Something to think about in these few words from the article.
Quote
"Thursday when the state Senate approved a bare-bones bill that lacks a method for paying the $400-billion cost of the plan."

What exactly is a bare bones bill?

Estimated $400 billion cost?
*Note I added the word estimated because anyone that understands how government works government and costs, knows that leaving out estimate is a clue that the final cost will exceed $400 billion.

Nothing is free, taxes will be used. It's a question of will taxes on consumer goods be the method used or a combination of taxes?.

One constant in the systems in other countries is the escalation of cost to provide health care. Not knowing what bare bones really is, if I were a resident of California I'd be skeptical.
 
Trade said:
A small but encouraging step forward IMO.


http://ktla.com/2017/06/02/400-billion-single-payer-health-care-plan-advances-in-california-senate/
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Along with a 15% payroll tax and contingent with not losing federal subsidies for health insurance. This in a state where a recent gas tax increase of about $500 year more in vehicle fees and taxes caused backlash including a recall election of that bill's sponsor. Should add that when San Francisco raised the minimum wage approximately 50 restaurants closed. Also saw where a rail project is burdened with billions of cost overruns or new additional cost projections. I don't think the tax payers or businesses will tolerate an additional tax.
 
I think the California bill is symbolic at this point but I do believe that we will soon reach a tipping point and that Medicare for all will become a reality.

As far as how we pay for it, I don't see a big difference in paying insurance premiums or payroll taxes, it's just a case of moving the pea around under the walnut shells.

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I am concerned over what the cost will be and how we can control health care costs going forward.

We'll see!
 
Aunt Bea said:
I think the California bill is symbolic at this point but I do believe that we will soon reach a tipping point and that Medicare for all will become a reality.

As far as how we pay for it, I don't see a big difference in paying insurance premiums or payroll taxes, it's just a case of moving the pea around under the walnut shells.

main-qimg-4b4c86829cde82cef52adf1b9521bea8


I am concerned over what the cost will be and how we can control health care costs going forward.

We'll see!
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Medicare for all should work but there is no doubt what it will take to make that happen won't be cheap at 1st. or easy to implement.

We already know obesity in America is creating a massive amount of health care issues. What will happen to seniors already
enrolled in Medicare with age related problems when millions more will have access to the doctor base?
 
Knight said:
Medicare for all should work but there is no doubt what it will take to make that happen won't be cheap at 1st. or easy to implement.

We already know obesity in America is creating a massive amount of health care issues. What will happen to seniors already
enrolled in Medicare with age related problems when millions more will have access to the doctor base?
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Healthcare is not cheap or easy to understand now. I would just as soon cut out the insurance company and pay my $757.97/month premium directly to the government. If all Americans are enrolled in Medicare for all it would mean that young healthy folks would be contributing to the annual cost along with those that are sick or disabled. I think that major employers would welcome the chance to go out of the health insurance benefit business by grossing up employee wages, in a one time adjustment, and letting employees pay for health insurance directly to the government. I don't know what the cost of Medicare for all would be but I don't believe it would be any more expensive than the current system.

I'm not too concerned about obesity, I'm concerned with the generally fit and healthy folks that develop some form of dementia and live for years and years in supervised care.

I assume that the seniors/retirees on Medicare will continue as they have and that those aging out and retiring in the future will pay some sort of income based premium to the government, similar to what they do today.

If Medicare for all becomes the law of the land I assume that all doctors will accept Medicare or only treat the uber rich in very cushy private clinics.

We'll see, whatever will be, will be!
 
Aunt Bea said:
I think the California bill is symbolic at this point but I do believe that we will soon reach a tipping point and that Medicare for all will become a reality.

As far as how we pay for it, I don't see a big difference in paying insurance premiums or payroll taxes, it's just a case of moving the pea around under the walnut shells.

main-qimg-4b4c86829cde82cef52adf1b9521bea8


I am concerned over what the cost will be and how we can control health care costs going forward.

We'll see!
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Exactly. What people who use the argument that single payer don't seem to understand is that we are already paying through the nose for healthcare to the tune of 17% of our GDP currently. Of course most of these naysayers aren't seeing that because someone else, like their employer, is picking up 80 or 90%, or in the case of retired military 95%+ of the tab for their health insurance. And what they are afraid of is that if the country goes to single payer they will have to pay higher taxes and get nothing more in return than what they already have. Which means those additional taxes may be going to pay for the health insurance of someone else.
 
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There is no chance of Medicare for all. We'll wind up with Medicaid for all. Meaning lousy service. Doctors getting 70% of what they get now.

It will cause an even greater difference between the haves and the have-nots. Those with money will pay cash or buy expensive insurance. The rest of us will get terrible care. VA for all!

Rick
 
Butterfly said:
If I had to pay $757 to the govt for healthcare, I wouldn't have much left for anything else.
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It has been my biggest monthly expense since I stopped working.

I'm thankful that the government contributes $131.00/month, the total premium is actually $888.97/month.

When I read about the payments that other people make for family coverage I feel very fortunate.
 
GreenSky said:
There is no chance of Medicare for all. We'll wind up with Medicaid for all. Meaning lousy service. Doctors getting 70% of what they get now.

It will cause an even greater difference between the haves and the have-nots. Those with money will pay cash or buy expensive insurance. The rest of us will get terrible care. VA for all!

Rick
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The VA is socialized medicine... completely owned and implemented by the government. Medicare is single payer. I thank GOD for my Medicare every single day. My 100% coverage with zero copay costs me about $300 a month... which is my Part B premium and supplement.
 
You make my point. Much of the service at the VA is terrible.

The cost of your Medicare and supplement is closer to $1,100 monthly with the taxpayers kicking in most of it. I'm not saying it's wrong but let's get the actually cost correct. Without your supplement (and since you clearly have Plan F you are paying way too much), the cost of Medicare itself is about $900 monthly for 80% coverage.

There is no Medicare trust fund as the money has been "borrowed" out by the feds. I still think the only affordable option is Medicaid which pays about 70% of the Medicare payments to doctors. This will cause docs to opt out of any insurance and go to cash only. Or we could still have insurance but only the wealthy would afford it.

I don't have an answer but there are 2 parts to every issue. Those who receive a benefit and those who pay for it.

Rick
 
Our present Health Care system costs the nation over 17% of its GDP. Most other nations supply quality health care to their people for about half that much. Our present system is headed for a brick wall unless our government begins to look at what is working in other nations, and begins to adopt similar measures here. There are dozens of reasons why our system is getting out of control, and the solutions will not be easy, nor occur overnight, but we have to begin to start Somewhere, and Soon.

The last time the WHO...World Health Organization....ranked the nations, in 2000, the U.S. came in at number 1, in term of costs, but ranked number 37, in terms of results. In the years since, that gap has probably widened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000
 
Don M. said:
Our present Health Care system costs the nation over 17% of its GDP. Most other nations supply quality health care to their people for about half that much. Our present system is headed for a brick wall unless our government begins to look at what is working in other nations, and begins to adopt similar measures here. There are dozens of reasons why our system is getting out of control, and the solutions will not be easy, nor occur overnight, but we have to begin to start Somewhere, and Soon.

The last time the WHO...World Health Organization....ranked the nations, in 2000, the U.S. came in at number 1, in term of costs, but ranked number 37, in terms of results. In the years since, that gap has probably widened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000
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Exactly. Costs are the issue. Not who is going to pay for it. COSTS-why? Many reasons but the biggest is somebody else is paying for it syndrome via third party money/insurance companies. This sets the stage in the secondary market in supply and education as well. If providers, suppliers and educators realized their patients, customers and students were paying on their own rather than through insurance, loans, grants, subsidies etc the cost would drop. Third party money is now entrenched in the culture of medical care in America. That mindset will have to be dug out and changed step by step brick by brick. There is no one solution until third party money is eliminated let alone reduced.
 

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