Anthem and Anesthesia by the Minute?

What we need is better control of the INSURANCE industry, not our government in the health care system. We need better control of the population we cover, without that population incurring higher rates.

The ACA (a HUGE mistake) made things worse, not better. After ACA lower income persons are subsidized on the back of the middle class income bracket. That is ridiculous. Middle/upper class income workers end up punished for doing right: making money enough to PAY full rates, they stay healthier. Lower income get subsidized, don't stay as healthy.

One of my theses was a comparison and contrast of FIVE country health systems outside the US. Japan's system seemed to be the most successful, fair, and logical: you are entitled to inexpensive health care if you take care of yourself and meet certain standards (ie no smoking, no alcohol in excess, your waist size is between 32" and 36". This was a several decades ago...so of course it may have changed by now.

Don't even get me started on what is happening with other insurance industries and how consumers are being screwed.
 
HermitHogan said:
If we don't have more government control of our healthcare, who's going to do the reforming? It's surely not going to happen from within the industry; the only thing they care about is profits and they're beholden to no one but their shareholders. The only way it's going to happen is through legislation.
Click to expand...
But it should be insurance industry legislation, not healthcare legislation. I would LOVE to present healthcare reforms to Congress but who wants to listen to me at 69 years old?
 

jimintoronto said:
On another forum, I am talking to a US man who takes a monthly injection of a med called Xolair, that treats his asthma condition. It costs his medical insurance about $3000 USD per injection, times 12 injections a year, equals about $36,000 USD a year. I looked up that med Xolair at a Toronto pharmacy store. The same drug ( made in the USA ) costs $1468 Canadian per injection, which is about $1042 USD per injection. In other words the American patient's medical insurance company is paying three times what the same drug costs IN Canada to treat the same condition. JIM.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that is fairly common.

It is also common for people without insurance to pay higher out of pocket costs for medical treatment and tests.

IMO we have excellent medical care, the way we pay for it and how much we pay for it is the problem.

Also, I’m not sure but I believe that Canadians pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than Americans do or are willing to pay for government services.
 
againstthegrain said:
In other words Americans are subsidizing Canadians and others around the world by inventing and producing medicines that they would never have otherwise.
Click to expand...
  • Below are just 3 of the many British medical inventors... How much did you pay for these medications in your country?... we paid nothing..we invented it.. each patient paid nothing....

    • Penicillin
      Discovered by Scottish physician and microbiologist Alexander Fleming, penicillin was created when Fleming grew a mold in a Petri dish that destroyed bacteria around it.
    • Embryonic stem cells
      English biologist Martin Evans discovered embryonic stem cells (ES cells) in mice.
    • Covid vaccine
      AstraZeneca developed and sent more than two billion vaccines to over 170 countries.

 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
What we need is better control of the INSURANCE industry, not our government in the health care system. We need better control of the population we cover, without that population incurring higher rates.

The ACA (a HUGE mistake) made things worse, not better. After ACA lower income persons are subsidized on the back of the middle class income bracket. That is ridiculous. Middle/upper class income workers end up punished for doing right: making money enough to PAY full rates, they stay healthier. Lower income get subsidized, don't stay as healthy.

One of my theses was a comparison and contrast of FIVE country health systems outside the US. Japan's system seemed to be the most successful, fair, and logical: you are entitled to inexpensive health care if you take care of yourself and meet certain standards (ie no smoking, no alcohol in excess, your waist size is between 32" and 36". This was a several decades ago...so of course it may have changed by now.

Don't even get me started on what is happening with other insurance industries and how consumers are being screwed.
Click to expand...
Yes it was really awful those "lower income persons" had/have medical insurance. They should have been left to fend for themselves. Did you feel this way about "lower income persons" during the pandemic when they stocked the groceries in the store or bathed your mother in a nursing home?

I don't think you're correct in the statement that the ACA is paid for "on the backs of the middle class."

"Middle/upper class income workers" have their med insurance paid for by the company they work for. Other workers "guess which ?" can't get 35hrs/wk to earn the benefit from their employer - I guess that means they're doing the opposite of "doing right."
 
againstthegrain said:
Yes it was really awful those "lower income persons" had/have medical insurance. They should have been left to fend for themselves. Did you feel this way about "lower income persons" during the pandemic when they stocked the groceries in the store or bathed your mother in a nursing home?

I don't think you're correct in the statement that the ACA is paid for "on the backs of the middle class."

"Middle/upper class income workers" have their med insurance paid for by the company they work for. Other workers "guess which ?" can't get 35hrs/wk to earn the benefit from their employer - I guess that means they're doing the opposite of "doing right."
Click to expand...
Beg to differ. Not all employers pay all the premiums.
I was a "lower income" person for too many years and never expected anyone to pay my medical premiums!
No, it isn't all paid off the back of the middle class, you can add off the backs of the top 5% taxpayers, too.

IF one doesn't pay their OWN insurance, who does? The government doesn't pay for anything. The TAXPAYERS do!
 
@CooCooforCoCoPuffs …I feel the need to stick my neck out here…and I do like my head. I had health insurance for about 4 years my entire life until I qualified for medicare. Noone except myself payed for any care I needed. Life is NOT fair…if it were we would be all the same. Some people are fat…and make huge incomes and pay lots into the system. And some people are thin and never smoke or drink and have terrible disease. Good Health care is about humanity…not judgement.
 
hollydolly said:
  • Below are just 3 of the many British medical inventors... How much did you pay for these medications in your country?... we paid nothing..we invented it.. each patient paid nothing....

    • Penicillin
      Discovered by Scottish physician and microbiologist Alexander Fleming, penicillin was created when Fleming grew a mold in a Petri dish that destroyed bacteria around it.
    • Embryonic stem cells
      English biologist Martin Evans discovered embryonic stem cells (ES cells) in mice.
    • Covid vaccine
      AstraZeneca developed and sent more than two billion vaccines to over 170 countries.
Click to expand...
Penicillin is less than $US 10. Embryonic stem cells aren't legal, travel to MX or AUS required. C19 vaxx costs nothing.

The British drug companies do punch above their weight class relative to GDP. The US however has produced about 43% of the recent New Molecular Entities (NME) which I guess forms the basis of new drugs.
 
againstthegrain said:
Penicillin is less than $US 10. Embryonic stem cells aren't legal, travel to MX or AUS required. C19 vaxx costs nothing.

The British drug companies do punch above their weight class relative to GDP. The US however has produced about 43% of the recent New Molecular Entities (NME) which I guess forms the basis of new drugs.
Click to expand...
yes but my point is...we have invented very much of the most used medications in the world...we don't charge our own patients extortionate prices ..whereas the Americans do.. and then complain when they're being sold for less in other countries... ridiculous..

It's not that they're being subsidised by Americans for other countries.. rather the drug companies are taking the absolute piss out of their own people...by hiking the prices in the US to the AAmerican people to extortionate levles...

Anyway I don't want to get into any debate about it.. just my point of view.. I hate to see anyone regardless of nationality being taken for a ride...
 
hollydolly said:
yes but my point is...we have invented very much of the most used medications in the world...we don't charge our own patients extortionate prices ..whereas the Americans do.. and then complain when they're being sold for less in other countries... ridiculous..

It's not that they're being subsidized by Americans for other countries.. rather the drug companies are taking the absolute piss out of their own people...by hiking the prices in the US to the AAmerican people to extortionate levles...

Anyway I don't want to get into any debate about it.. just my point of view.. I hate to see anyone regardless of nationality being taken for a ride...
Click to expand...
You are 100% correct about the subsidies.

The reasoning for no price caps on meds in the US is profit. The politicians and drug companies lead us the believe the outrageous prices are what promotes the discovery of new miracle drugs. According to the study I just read that is just not true, so my apologizes for believing our own BS story.....I learned something, thank you.
 
Aunt Bea said:
Unfortunately, that is fairly common.

It is also common for people without insurance to pay higher out of pocket costs for medical treatment and tests.

IMO we have excellent medical care, the way we pay for it and how much we pay for it is the problem.

Also, I’m not sure but I believe that Canadians pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than Americans do or are willing to pay for government services.
Click to expand...
The Canadian tax rate is about FIVE PERCENT higher for the average Canadian person, compared to the same income level in the USA. In addition, we get better services for the taxes we do pay. I mentioned earlier about a specific medication that is made in the USA Xolair, which sells in Canada for 66 PERCENT LESS than it sells for in the USA. Why? Because the Canadian Federal Government controls the retail prices of prescription drugs sold in Canada.
 
againstthegrain said:
.. The politicians and drug companies lead us the believe the outrageous prices are what promotes the discovery of new miracle drugs. A
Click to expand...
That was the case until 4 or 5 decades ago. The money-flow changed when labor laws required businesses to provide their employees with medical coverage.

Large corporations eased that burden by attracting more and/or wealthier investors, but many small businesses had to close, forcing the law to be amended, i.e., businesses with under 9 employees were allowed to offer only Worker's Compensation or limited coverage, some were temporarily subsidized, and none were required to provide med ins. to part-time employees. (resulting in a severe shortage of full-time jobs..still a problem today)

Also, this contributed to hospitals and major medical centers evolving into for-profit businesses (rather than patient services). As you pointed out, profits from hospitals and major medical centers used to go directly into medical research and innovations. Now it goes to the insurance companies that own them and their investors.

(@jimintoronto)
 
My grandson was telling me about this last night. That's just crazy!! I'm glad they got pressure to back down as @Aunt Bea posted. But no doubt they will find another way to stick it to their customers.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
What we need is better control of the INSURANCE industry, not our government in the health care system. We need better control of the population we cover, without that population incurring higher rates.

The ACA (a HUGE mistake) made things worse, not better. After ACA lower income persons are subsidized on the back of the middle class income bracket. That is ridiculous. Middle/upper class income workers end up punished for doing right: making money enough to PAY full rates, they stay healthier. Lower income get subsidized, don't stay as healthy.

One of my theses was a comparison and contrast of FIVE country health systems outside the US. Japan's system seemed to be the most successful, fair, and logical: you are entitled to inexpensive health care if you take care of yourself and meet certain standards (ie no smoking, no alcohol in excess, your waist size is between 32" and 36". This was a several decades ago...so of course it may have changed by now.

Don't even get me started on what is happening with other insurance industries and how consumers are being screwed.
Click to expand...
The ACA was not a huge mistake. I know a few people that despite having full time jobs wouldn’t have had health insurance and are only still alive because of it. They had rare, expensive medical problems and were both young. They both are cured and happily still alive because of the ACA.
 
Before the ACA I would not have been able to buy an individual health care insurance plan in New York Stste.

Under the ACA I was able to buy a quality healthcare plan until I became eligible for Medicare.

When I was eligible for Medicare in 2019 my ACA monthly premium was slightly over $1,000.00/month.

Expensive? 🤔

Only if you were fortunate enough not to need it. 😉

For me, Medicare has been a tremendous value coupled with a zero premium Advantage Plan.
 
Before ACA, no one had $5,000 to $25,000 :oops: deductibles.
Those high deductibles are the the only way some can afford to buy a mandatory health plan with premiums low enough.

NO Federal law should tell an American they must buy medical insurance when they are of working age! Make it a crime to not buy insurance when the premiums and deductibles are so high it is ridiculous.

There should be caps placed on insurance's ability to clean out the pockets of Americans, or make a profit off of any mandatory participation.

That is: unless all Americans pay the same price for a health program the US makes mandatory: such as Medicare is, and even THEN some seniors in the higher - and healthier - retirement saving/earning brackets are paying higher prices than others.
 
jimintoronto said:
Each of the Canadian Provincial Governments operate their own health care programs. The Federal Government of Canada sets the standards that the Provinces have to live up to, and the Feds distribute funds to some of the less wealthy Provinces to balance their health care budgets. I guess we Canadians trust our Governments more than Americans trust their Government ? JIM.
Click to expand...
That is a bit how our VA Healthcare System for military veterans works. The States are broken into VA healthcare districts; VA at Federal level sets standards of care, etc. It works if you know how the system works; problem is, not everyone knows how a health care system works; they just know when they are and are not happy with said system.

And believe me, the standards of caring and attitude change depending on which VA area you use, and which state of that area you are in. They have some big time employee management issues IMO. Disconnects; fear of union employees.
 
jimintoronto said:
On another forum, I am talking to a US man who takes a monthly injection of a med called Xolair, that treats his asthma condition. It costs his medical insurance about $3000 USD per injection, times 12 injections a year, equals about $36,000 USD a year. I looked up that med Xolair at a Toronto pharmacy store. The same drug ( made in the USA ) costs $1468 Canadian per injection, which is about $1042 USD per injection. In other words the American patient's medical insurance company is paying three times what the same drug costs IN Canada to treat the same condition. JIM.
Click to expand...
There are different payout charts for different billing sources.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top