Australia’s new defence pact with UK and US

mellowyellow

mellowyellow

Well-known Member
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Australia has scrapped its strife-torn $90bn submarine deal with France and entered a new pact with the United States and the United Kingdom to acquire nuclear-powered submarines. PM Scott Morrison announced a new defence deal with the US and UK for Australia’s submarine program to “go nuclear” under a defence pact that has been described as “China’s worst nightmare”.

The new grouping to be known as AUUKUS will advise Australia on how to identify the best way to acquire nuclear-powered submarine capability and share advanced technologies involving artificial intelligence.

I wish New Zealand was with us, we are related by blood lost in both world wars, tragic situation IMO

When did NZ leave the ANZUS Treaty?
1986
In response, the United States formally suspended its treaty obligations to New Zealand in 1986 and reduced the two countries' military ties.
 

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Always good to have allies, I am happy to see this. Presenting a united front to China and the world is important. We do have very similar world views and share a lot of interests.

However I am sure Australians, and others, may have some reservations about following us into foolish ventures. Hopefully that will not be as much of a problem going forward.
 

There has been a thawing of relations between NZ and the US. I would prefer we were back in ANZUS, but nothing will happen under this present government.
New Zealand was suspended from ANZUS in 1986 as it initiated a nuclear-free zone in its territorial waters; in late 2012 New Zealand lifted a ban on visits by United States warships leading to a thawing in tensions.
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Many decades ago New Zealand banned U. S. Navy Warships fearing that the nukes the U. S. carried on several of
their warships would invite a nuclear strike on their nation.

The U. S. got all huffy, 'What, you want to ban our warships'!!!

I thought it showed uncommonly good sense, ' We would rather not have A-bombs raining down on us
in an attempt to sink your warships.'
 
Bellbird said:
There has been a thawing of relations between NZ and the US. I would prefer we were back in ANZUS, but nothing will happen under this present government.
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New_Zealand_Prime_Minister_Jacinda_Ardern_in_2018.jpg

Agree nothing will happen under this present government.​

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is the leader of New Zealand's Labour Party since 1 August 2017.​

 
jerry old said:
Many decades ago New Zealand banned U. S. Navy Warships fearing that the nukes the U. S. carried on several of
their warships would invite a nuclear strike on their nation.

The U. S. got all huffy, 'What, you want to ban our warships'!!!

I thought it showed uncommonly good sense, ' We would rather not have A-bombs raining down on us
in an attempt to sink your warships.'
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It doesn't matter. In the event of nuclear war, New Zealand may last a few weeks longer , but in the end, she will be irradiated.
 
Alligatorob said:
Always good to have allies, I am happy to see this. Presenting a united front to China and the world is important. We do have very similar world views and share a lot of interests.

However I am sure Australians, and others, may have some reservations about following us into foolish ventures. Hopefully that will not be as much of a problem going forward.
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Foolish ventures ? The foolish venture would be to allow China to have free reign over the entire South China Sea. China has already claimed vast tracts of sea that are way, way OUTSIDE their territorial waters. Moreover, China is harassing Philippine fishing boats that fish in international waters.

In 1950 China invaded Tibet and took complete control. Sooner or later, China will take Taiwan.

Most nations think in terms of a decade or so into the future. China thinks in terms of centuries.
 
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Britain’s new defence partnership with the United States and Australia could result in the UK being dragged into war if China invades Taiwan, Theresa May has suggested. The former prime minister asked Boris Johnson in the Commons what the “implications” of the pact would be in that scenario. China denounced the new defence partnership as Cold War thinking, with its state media warning that Australian soldiers would be the “first to die” in a Chinese “counterattack”.
 
Amid a rift over a new security agreement between the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom, the French Embassy in Washington has cancelled a Washington reception and toned down celebrations commemorating a Revolutionary War naval victory by the French that helped the US to win its independence.
 
We've already been told in no uncertain terms that our new nuclear subs will not be welcome in New Zealand waters. So we've managed to piss off France and New Zealand as well as China. Well done Australia. :rolleyes:

Ardern bans Australian nuclear subs from NZ waters​

Despite welcoming the US and Britain’s engagement in the Indo-Pacific, New Zealand’s position on nuclear-powered vessels ‘remains unchanged’.

From 'The Australian', no point in including a link, it will just hit a paywall.
 
mellowyellow said:
Makes me wonder if the western world should intervene at all if China makes a move on Taiwan, it's not our country.
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A legitimate question. Problem is if the Chinese thought they could do it without our intervention I think it would happen tomorrow.

Seems to me the best approach is to gather as many allies as possible and make some rational decisions like this one. Then act in unity. And find all of the non-military options possible to use first. China needs us economically, we need to use that.
 
mellowyellow said:
Makes me wonder if the western world should intervene at all if China makes a move on Taiwan, it's not our country.
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It certainly would be a losing proposition trying to defend Taiwan against a full scale Chinese attack. Taiwan is but a stones throw from China and we are many thousands of miles away.
About the only thing we could do to retaliate is stop any and all sales to China AND boycott all Chinese goods.
 
mellowyellow said:
French Embassy in Washington has cancelled a Washington reception and toned down celebrations commemorating a Revolutionary War naval victory by the French that helped the US to win its independence.
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Too bad, France is one of our oldest allies, the oldest in fact. We have not always agreed, but have somehow stuck together pretty well. Hope that can continue.
 
Even though China is a major crude oil producer, it became an oil IMPORTER in 1993. China needs that oil. Not sure how it could be done BUT if the allies could shut down that imported oil it would be a major blow to China.
 
Alligatorob said:
That would be a tough one... We have already sort of accepted that Taiwan is not a separate nation.
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That's not entirely true. (At least up until now) the US has considered Taiwan a separate nation ever since they asked to stop being referred to as the ROC. China is currently attempting to dictate the language (ie, "Taiwan Island" or anything besides "Taiwan") with impunity, and in fact have sworn to "punish" any country or gov't that refers to Taiwan as "Taiwan", or that displays Taiwan's new flag in any way, whether it's an actual flag, or an icon, or a painting. Taiwan's icon had to be changed for the last Olympics because China said so.
 
mellowyellow said:
Makes me wonder if the western world should intervene at all if China makes a move on Taiwan, it's not our country.
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China/the CCP would only start there, though. That's the real issue. After Taiwan, they'd want Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, AND Australia and New Zealand. They're licking their chops over the Northern Arctic, too.

So, yes. They HAVE to intervene.
 
Murrmurr said:
China/the CCP would only start there, though. That's the real issue. After Taiwan, they'd want Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, AND Australia and New Zealand. They're licking their chops over the Northern Arctic, too.

So, yes. They HAVE to intervene.
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The U.S. is handicapped when it comes to defending Taiwan , BUT The Philippines is an entirely different matter. The U.S would defend The Philippines with an all out war.
 
China has been sabre rattling in the South Pacific for some time. They are cozying up to the likes of Fiji, spending millions on the islands, no doubt hoping to entice them 'over' . Fiji and NZ have strong economic and social ties.
Thank you Australia for helping to keep Anzus alive. While i don't like the thought of nuclear, and ships have been banned because of it, it hasn't been ruled out completely. I would surely rather have the ship visits than end up speaking Chinese. The present government is strong on socialisim and is known as the weak link in the US led Five eyes Intelligence Network. Australia's Scott Morrison , I hope, will reign her in, if that is at all possible.
The New Zealand Nuclear Free Zone established under the Act does not ban land-based nuclear power plants.
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Australian and New Zealand prime ministers talk up closeness of ties as Ardern is forced to defend 'soft' stance on Beijing.
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