Best Idea Yet!

Ralphy1 said:
Hmmm, well the GI Bill was a big success in building an educated work force so why not just skip serving in the military to provide government support...
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I don't think anyone is advocating the goverment "support" anyone... just give everyone.. not just ex-military the chance for some training.

It just beats the hell out of me why some people are so dead set against average people getting anything... yet will defend to the death corporate subsidies and tax breaks for the wealthy. Somehow that's justifiable...but woe betide any average joe getting anything they aren't. So afraid that one penny of their tax dollar goes to help anyone.. It's sad really.. yet... so many say they are "Christains"..
 

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Community colleges aren't expensive. People paying their own way appreciate the opportunity to learn much more than those getting a free ride. Many trade have apprenticeship programs where people can get paid as they learn.
 
Ralphy1 said:
Hmmm, well the GI Bill was a big success in building an educated work force so why not just skip serving in the military to provide government support...
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The GI bill was an earned benefit through military service used by adults.
 


It's Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs, discussing College options and costs. It's 41 minutes long. Pay attention to the part, were he talks about 'work ethic'.

I have plenty of history with the family farm life. I judge everybody and everything according to the farm. The cows, pigs, chickens don't care that tomorrow is a Holiday, and you want the day off. The cows still need to be milked. The livestock doesn't care that you have a cold, or the weather isn't perfect. They still need to be fed, and stalls cleaned.

Thank Gawd, my 4 sons (aged 25-31) had the priviledge of being raised within this environment. They are all 'non college' educated workers, and they all make great money, with fantastic benefits. How did they do that without a college education? It's called WORK ETHIC! And the American Culture is currently declining in Work Ethic! If you don't 'see' this, clearly our micro-cocoons of life differ.
 
123Testing said:

It's Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs, discussing College options and costs. It's 41 minutes long. Pay attention to the part, were he talks about 'work ethic'.

I have plenty of history with the family farm life. I judge everybody and everything according to the farm. The cows, pigs, chickens don't care that tomorrow is a Holiday, and you want the day off. The cows still need to be milked. The livestock doesn't care that you have a cold, or the weather isn't perfect. They still need to be fed, and stalls cleaned.

Thank Gawd, my 4 sons (aged 25-31) had the priviledge of being raised within this environment. They are all 'non college' educated workers, and they all make great money, with fantastic benefits. How did they do that without a college education? It's called WORK ETHIC! And the American Culture is currently declining in Work Ethic! If you don't 'see' this, clearly our micro-cocoons of life differ.
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I think work ethic is "a" problem in the US economy/workforce. Some the employee's fault and the rest society's fault. The day off analogy is an excellent example of beggars cannot be a chooser. As someone who worked many a holiday for several different companies I got a little tired oh we have to work Thanksgiving or Christmas-for pay. Part of the reason the American employee, job applicant or worker is choosey is that there are several generations brought up that you should have and will have a "career", you will be doing what you love the rest of your life-which is a croc. But this leads to every JOB applicant thinking about every job in terms of career and not a job for pay. They can't tough it out. You also have several generations of job applicants that were never in the military or lived on/in a traditional campus setting including a cafeteria/meal plan that didn't allow you to run to a McDonalds when they wanted. There is little or no discipline and patience with many job applicants. Technology further exacerbates the instant gratification society.

No patience, discipline, persistence, gutting it out equals NO JOB.
 
I think we need to consider adopting the European system of education, which tests all students at age 14 and then directs each student into a further educational program suited to his/her talents an abilities, such as skilled trades, consumer/retail services,or university if the person has the intellect and interest in higher learning. As a former teacher, I can testify that about half the students I had when they were college freshmen had no business going to a liberal arts college. They were not interested in liberal arts. They wanted to learn how to be bankers, business owners, and bureaucrats. But no one told them that a liberal arts college is not designed to prepare people for jobs. That's what vocational and technical institutions are for. Where I live now, there are two vo-techs within 50 miles, whose programs for plumbing and refrigeration, electrician, LPN, auto repair, and other technical careers are filled and have waiting lists. These are good jobs but they do not require a person to study literature, music, or foreign languages, as a person has to do in a liberal arts college. I think it's a matter of high school vocational counselors having disappeared. No one is helping today's high school students to evaluate their abilities and talents so that they can pick appropriate careers suited to their abilities and temperaments.

As to the funding, the U.S. has a history of offering free public education. Whether it is 12 grades or 14, doesn't make much difference to me, as long as the education is effective and prepares students for their work life and civil responsibility.

Just my two cents' worth. Good discussion!
 
Ya know what.... I wasn't too happy when QuickSilver decided to attack me. Afterall... I'm a newbie on this site, and I *was* trying to tread lightly.

My 1st born son, is 31yrs old. He is a Haz Mat Trucker. He did it WITHOUT additional education. How did he do it? Simple! He hooked up with a bunch of other truckers that were willing to give him some OTR experience. Make a long story short..... once he got the OTR required for State tests.... and took the test.... guess what? HE GOT HIS LICENSE!

Once he got his OTR trucker license.... he spent even more time with other truckers.... along with some really brief *online* classes.... and he was able to get CERTIFIED AS A HAZ MAT TRUCKER!

I got another son..... joined the local Volunteer Fireman dept. The local Volunteer Fireman dept AGREED to PAY FOR HIS EMT CLASSES! Once that was done and out of the way.... the local Ambulance Service AGREED to pay for his PARAMEDIC classes!

That son has since married a Mortician. Egads! they have wayyyyy to much in common. He delivers them, and she does... well.... I won't finish that joke.

I'm just offering insight to the TRUE 'middle class' world.
 
I HAD a brother-in-law that was a construction worker. He built average houses for a living. This was very good skills to teach his up and coming son. That kid is now in his 30's. Guess what THAT KID now does? He now works for construction companies that build million dollar homes!!! All without a COLLEGE EDUCATION!

I'm sick and tired of the mind set, that.... you NEED a college education to make ends meet. NO YOU DON"T. I've seen plumbers get rich. I've seen the self-sufficient, jack of all trades, get rich.

You just NEED to find your 'spot' in life.
 
I went through a 4 year apprenticeship that included on the job training and college and in house classes. I had to take a cut in pay to get into the program, but the company paid my expenses. I retired from that company 39 years later.

During those years I knew a lot of very smart people, some had college degrees and some never went to college at all. I also knew a lot of idiots, some had college degrees and some never went to college.
 
When I graduated from High School, that VietNam mess was shifting into high gear, and I could feel the Draft Board breathing on my neck. Being a devout coward, and having no desire to slog through the jungle with a rifle, I went into the USAF, and took a bunch of tests which qualified me for a year of intense electronics training. After the good training and experience there, I was able to get a job fixing computers, and forged a good career that equaled anything I might have gotten with most college degrees.
There are dozens of career paths which afford a decent lifestyle without going through college. Trade schools and community colleges and union apprenticeships...AND Military Service, can open a lot of doors.
 
rkunsaw said:
I went through a 4 year apprenticeship that included on the job training and college and in house classes. I had to take a cut in pay to get into the program, but the company paid my expenses. I retired from that company 39 years later.

During those years I knew a lot of very smart people, some had college degrees and some never went to college at all. I also knew a lot of idiots, some had college degrees and some never went to college.
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This has been my experience. In some respects college has been outdated for decades because there are many more ways to get the information that used to be only taught in college and many areas need specialists.

Besides work ethic one of the things I noticed over the course of time those who succeed, do well or simply seem to know/understand their stuff is that they master the details of their job on a daily basis. They are constantly trying to learn more and/or up grade their skills. And by mastering the details of their job they can make it easier on themselves and deal with many a problem many so called professionals can't.
 
I went to school with 2 brothers, oldest was book smart, went to college and developed into a successful system analyst. The youngest was my age, likeable but struggled in school. He was not destined for higher education, went to work for a local plumber, became a journeyman and very capable tradesman. I knew his mother and was asking her one day how are they doing. Her response, the analyst is doing great makes great money, but can't get ahead, he's always borrowing money from the plumber, who makes better money but can handle his.
 

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