Best of Enemies: Buckley vs. Vidal

HermitHogan

HermitHogan

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This documentary was highly entertaining. It's about the debates that took place live on ABC in 1968 between William F. Buckley, Jr. and Gore Vidal and is available on Prime Video. I'd give it an 8.0 out of 10.
 

I've enjoyed some of Gore Vidal's historical novels, especially Burr and Lincoln.

As a political essayist/theorist he was entertaining but amazingly wrong about almost everything. Like another pseudo-intellectual, Noam Chomsky (an expert in linguistics but a fool about geopolitics), he saw the U.S. as the root cause of all the world's evils and held communism and even fascism blameless.

Very good analysis by Anne Appelbaum here.

Stylishly but consistently wrong – Anne Applebaum
 
Irishdude said:
I've enjoyed some of Gore Vidal's historical novels, especially Burr and Lincoln.

As a political essayist/theorist he was entertaining but amazingly wrong about almost everything. Like another pseudo-intellectual, Noam Chomsky (an expert in linguistics but a fool about geopolitics), he saw the U.S. as the root cause of all the world's evils and held communism and even fascism blameless.

Very good analysis by Anne Appelbaum here.

Stylishly but consistently wrong – Anne Applebaum
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I haven't read any of Gore Vidal's works, but he was entertaining as an intellectual on talk shows. I posted those videos for that reason — not for his accuracy as a "historian," since he wasn't an actual historian; he wrote historical fiction.

I agree with your comments about Noam Chomsky. You fail to mention that he's extremely boring to listen to. :ROFLMAO:

Where are the Gore Vidals, Norman Mailers, and other entertaining intellectuals today? As far as I can tell, there are none that rise to that level any more. Maybe intellectual discourse has changed to the point where people of differing opinions won't even talk to each other.
 
HermitHogan said:
I haven't read any of Gore Vidal's works, but he was entertaining as an intellectual on talk shows. I posted those videos for that reason — not for his accuracy as a "historian," since he wasn't an actual historian; he wrote historical fiction.

I agree with your comments about Noam Chomsky. You fail to mention that he's extremely boring to listen to. :ROFLMAO:

Where are the Gore Vidals, Norman Mailers, and other entertaining intellectuals today? As far as I can tell, there are none that rise to that level any more. Maybe intellectual discourse has changed to the point where people of differing opinions won't even talk to each other.
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Vidal wrote historical fiction but also held forth at length in non-fiction essays, book reviews, and longer pieces. I hear you on the lack of entertaining intellectuals. We no longer have what used to be called "public intellectuals" because even our leaders don't read books anymore. I think Barack Obama was the last president who might have actually read books on a regular basis. There is no basis for discussion between people of differing opinions because of the belief that the other side is not just wrong but evil.

With that said, I find Niall Ferguson, Steven Pinker and some other writers to be both smart and entertaining. In the old days they would have been on the Dick Cavett Show; maybe now they are guests on Bill Maher or some similar venue.
 
Irishdude said:
Vidal wrote historical fiction but also held forth at length in non-fiction essays, book reviews, and longer pieces. I hear you on the lack of entertaining intellectuals. We no longer have what used to be called "public intellectuals" because even our leaders don't read books anymore. I think Barack Obama was the last president who might have actually read books on a regular basis. There is no basis for discussion between people of differing opinions because of the belief that the other side is not just wrong but evil.

With that said, I find Niall Ferguson, Steven Pinker and some other writers to be both smart and entertaining. In the old days they would have been on the Dick Cavett Show; maybe now they are guests on Bill Maher or some similar venue.
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A big difference between today's "intellectual" conversations and those of the '60s and '70s is, back then, we had a shared reality. I was going to try to come up with some examples, but on second thought, maybe we didn't have a shared reality back then any more than we have today.

Back then, we had the John Birch Society; we had just emerged from the McCarthy era; there was all sorts of fear mongering about any country with ties to communism. All those movements were grounded in lies and misinformation. Maybe it's just that people weren't so involved in politics back then because you had to read — even to get misinformed.

These days, there's all sorts of misinformation and propaganda out there that you don't even need to read; you can just go to one of the cable channels or watch YouTube videos, or you can get little talking points by reading online forums and form your opinion from a soundbite that could fit on a bumper sticker. The advent of the Web changed everything regarding how people get and process information.

I finally got a chance to listen to some Niall Ferguson and you're right; he's on that same level. I'm not a big fan of Steven Pinker. I don't agree with some of the things he says, and he seems like the kind of guy would try to make you feel stupid if you disagreed with him. Plus, he's just not very entertaining.
 
HermitHogan said:
A big difference between today's "intellectual" conversations and those of the '60s and '70s is, back then, we had a shared reality. I was going to try to come up with some examples, but on second thought, maybe we didn't have a shared reality back then any more than we have today.

Back then, we had the John Birch Society; we had just emerged from the McCarthy era; there was all sorts of fear mongering about any country with ties to communism. All those movements were grounded in lies and misinformation. Maybe it's just that people weren't so involved in politics back then because you had to read — even to get misinformed.

These days, there's all sorts of misinformation and propaganda out there that you don't even need to read; you can just go to one of the cable channels or watch YouTube videos, or you can get little talking points by reading online forums and form your opinion from a soundbite that could fit on a bumper sticker. The advent of the Web changed everything regarding how people get and process information.

I finally got a chance to listen to some Niall Ferguson and you're right; he's on that same level. I'm not a big fan of Steven Pinker. I don't agree with some of the things he says, and he seems like the kind of guy would try to make you feel stupid if you disagreed with him. Plus, he's just not very entertaining.
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Very thoughtful comment, thank you.
 

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