Billionaires are giving their wealth to philanthropy

Your last post sounds like you are finally agreeing with me. The Congress needs to sit down and design a newer and more restricted tax program to take away all the ways to avoid paying taxes. Why should companies like GE avoid paying taxes? Why should half the citizens also avoid paying taxes. The entire tax program needs redone.
 

BobF said:
Your last post sounds like you are finally agreeing with me. The Congress needs to sit down and design a newer and more restricted tax program to take away all the ways to avoid paying taxes. Why should companies like GE avoid paying taxes? Why should half the citizens also avoid paying taxes. The entire tax program needs redone.
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Up to the last sentence. Yes.. we need to revamp the tax code.. BUT it needs to remain a graduated or progressive tax based on income. There should be NO taxes on people earning below the poverty level. It has been this way since Federal Income tax was instituted. It makes no sense.. These people are eligible for food stamps for a reason... so you want to tax them to pay for it? Even in 1862 no taxes were levied on people makeing below $600

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate
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Read more: History of the Income Tax in the United States | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html#ixzz3EHP2WaS3
 
QuickSilver said:
Up to the last sentence. Yes.. we need to revamp the tax code.. BUT it needs to remain a graduated or progressive tax based on income. There should be NO taxes on people earning below the poverty level. It has been this way since Federal Income tax was instituted. It makes no sense.. These people are eligible for food stamps for a reason... so you want to tax them to pay for it? Even in 1862 no taxes were levied on people makeing below $600



Read more: History of the Income Tax in the United States | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html#ixzz3EHP2WaS3
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Are you saying that half the people in the US that do not pay taxes are living below the top of the poverty level. If so, then the entire economy of the US is wrong.
 

No.. and I don't believe that HALF of the US population pays no taxes. You are repeating a very well known conservative talking point.. It's a MYTH Bobby... 86% PAY taxes. You've just got to shut off FOX news.. they have been spreading this LIE for years. Time you stopped repeating it.

http://archives.politicususa.com/2011/07/18/half-americans-taxes.html

The actual number of Americans who don’t pay any taxes isn’t half, but 14%. This group of non-taxpayers of any kind is largely composed of the elderly and disabled. The people who don’t pay taxes do so because they can’t work.
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The myth that the wealthy are carrying the tax burden for America is used to justify tax cuts for the rich. Conservatives use the inaccurate statistic hand in hand with their, “wealthy are the job creators argument.” One statistic that was intended to demonstrate the loss of income due to the recession, along with the impact of the Obama tax cuts has been distorted and misused to justify a policy of not asking the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share.
The truth is that 86% of Americans pay taxes. In one recession strapped year (2009), less than half of single filer taxpayers paid federal income taxes.
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It may be a lie for years, but to me I was not telling lies. I believe what I was saying, Until I read a real open minded article that tells me something different I will wait for truth. That article you used was so far left in the way they treated unbelieving persons that their facts are in a fog, to say the least. I will go on a search of my own and see what I can come up with. I will let you know one way or the other. Won't happen soon as I am getting ready to go on the road soon. But if I get lucky I will find some one who writes more from a statistical level that just a far left or far right forum. And as I said in an earlier post, I am neither far left nor far right.
 
You do that bobby.... but it's a well known fact and has been debunked over and over... but if you want to go on believing the propaganda FOX spews out.. go ahead. It's the followers like you that FOX and the KOCH brothers are playing.. It's really kind of sad... they are buying our government and economy... and you are helping them.
 
QuickSilver said:
You do that bobby.... but it's a well known fact and has been debunked over and over... but if you want to go on believing the propaganda FOX spews out.. go ahead. It's the followers like you that FOX and the KOCH brothers are playing.. It's really kind of sad... they are buying our government and economy... and you are helping them.
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I really will look up tax data and on my first foray for year 2013 I found the number to be 44% do not pay taxes. That was only one place, but not a extreme far left publication like you seem to trust. Sad for those that only believe in the far left thinking. You should start to look for more middle of the road items.

I seldom watch much of FOX News as most of my time I watch CBS or NBC. You sure have a badly mixed up basis for you comments. I have heard of the Koch brothers but never see them on TV. Where do they broadcast?
 
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SeaBreeze said:
I never even thought about rich people avoiding taxes much, until Romney was running for president. Guess the Koch brothers contributions to various 'charities' does save them a lot on taxes, and also has a lot of influence? http://investigativereportingworksh...millions_spread_influence_through_nonprofits/
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SeaBreeze, that is a VERY important article that every American should read. It is very detailed with the vastness that these men have taken over our government, the media, the education of the young, the environment and most importantly the minds of Americans.

Here is another.....

[h=1]Inside the Koch Brothers' Toxic Empire[/h]

Together, Charles and David Koch control one of the world's largest fortunes, which they are using to buy up our political system. But what they don't want you to know is how they made all that money


The enormity of the Koch fortune is no mystery. Brothers Charles and David are each worth more than $40 billion. The electoral influence of the Koch brothers is similarly well-chronicled. The Kochs are our homegrown oligarchs; they've cornered the market on Republican politics and are nakedly attempting to buy Congress and the White House. Their political network helped finance the Tea Party and powers today's GOP. Koch-affiliated organizations raised some $400 million during the 2012 election, and aim to spend another $290 million to elect Republicans in this year's midterms. So far in this cycle, Koch-backed entities have bought 44,000 political ads to boost Republican efforts to take back the Senate.

What is less clear is where all that money comes from. Koch Industries is headquartered in a squat, smoked-glass building that rises above the prairie on the outskirts of Wichita, Kansas. The building, like the brothers' fiercely private firm, is literally and figuratively a black box. Koch touts only one top-line financial figure: $115 billion in annual revenue, as estimated by Forbes. By that metric, it is larger than IBM, Honda or Hewlett-Packard and is America's second-largest private company after agribusiness colossus Cargill. The company's stock response to inquiries from reporters: "We are privately held and don't disclose this information."

But Koch Industries is not entirely opaque. The company's troubled legal history – including a trail of congressional investigations, Department of Justice consent decrees, civil lawsuits and felony convictions – augmented by internal company documents, leaked State Department cables, Freedom of Information disclosures and company whistle*-blowers, combine to cast an unwelcome spotlight on the toxic empire whose profits finance the modern GOP.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924#ixzz3EH9QMh35
 
Not to mention the Koch's involvement and contributions to ALEC.. a Conservative group that actually writes legislation at the State level.. and through their contributions to the campaign coffers of the Republican State legislators, pushes this legislation through. One of their brilliant ideas is the infamous Stand your Ground laws many States with Republican lead governments have adopted which has become a legal way to kill.. Another is the rash of anti-union legislation and all the Voter Suppression laws geared to make it more difficult for minorities, students and the elderly to vote.. They also work tirelessly to eliminate all environmental regulations, as well as public health legislation. In other words.. they work to the benefit of the wealthy and large corporations. Politicians taking their funding are obligated to espress their gratitude by sponsering the legislation ALEC drafts. So much for democracy..


From Wiki

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) is a 501(c)(3) organization of conservative state legislators and private sector representatives that shares and drafts model state-level legislation for distribution among the United States.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] According to its website, ALEC "works to advance the fundamental principles of free-market enterprise, limited government, and federalism at the state level through a nonpartisan public-private partnership of America's state legislators, members of the private sector and the general public."[SUP][7][/SUP]
ALEC provides a forum for state legislators and private sector members to collaborate on model bills—draft legislation that members can customize and introduce for debate in their own state legislatures.[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] ALEC has produced model bills on a broad range of issues such as reducing corporate regulation and taxation, combating illegal immigration, loosening environmental regulations, tightening voter identification rules, and promoting gun rights.[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] ALEC also serves as a networking tool among state legislators, allowing them to research conservative policies implemented in other states.[SUP][13][/SUP] Some of these bills dominate legislative agendas in states such as Arizona, Wisconsin, Colorado, Michigan, New Hampshire, and Maine.[SUP][14][/SUP] Approximately 200 model bills become law each year.[SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] Many ALEC legislators also laud the organization for converting campaign rhetoric and nascent policy ideas into legislative language.[SUP][8][/SUP]
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As for the Koch Brothers involvment in ALEC

http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/alec-exposed-koch-connection

Hundreds of ALEC’s model bills and resolutions bear traces of Koch DNA: raw ideas that were once at the fringes but that have been carved into “mainstream” policy through the wealth and will of Charles and David Koch. Of all the Kochs’ investments in right-wing organizations, ALEC provides some of the best returns: it gives the Kochs a way to make their brand of free-market fundamentalism legally binding.

No one knows how much the Kochs have given ALEC in total, but the amount likely exceeds $1 million—not including a half-million loaned to ALEC when the group was floundering. ALEC gave the Kochs its Adam Smith Free Enterprise Award, and Koch Industries has been one of the select members of ALEC’s corporate board for almost twenty years. The company’s top lobbyist was once ALEC’s chairman. As a result, the Kochs have shaped legislation touching every state in the country. Like ideological venture capitalists, the Kochs have used ALEC as a way to invest in radical ideas and fertilize them with tons of cash.
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Read more from the link.. However, it's easy to see how DANGEROUS the Kochs are. AND the horrifice ruling of the SCOTUS.. on Citzens United have opened the floodgates for the buying of our Government.. The Kochs have started at the State Levels and have had huge success.. The Federal level is on it's way to being Koch bought and paid for. We are on our way to becoming an Oligarchy.. where only a handful of the uber rich and Large corporations call ALL the shots and draft ALL the legislation. So much for WE the people. Huh? But we are not blameless. Many of us have been voting against our own interests.. as part of the plan is to push forth the SOCIAL ISSUES that many care about.. into the lime light while drawing attention away from the real agenda. Issues such as abortion, gun rights, gay rights have been the shiny objects used to keep people from knowing the REAL goals of the radical Right. The Kochs and those of their ilk couldn't care less about these issues.. They want to run the Government to their financial advantage, but need to get politicians elected who will do their bidding. This is VERY dangerous people.
 
All excellent information, QuickSilver, I read in one of the links that thanks to Citizen's United their contribution moneys to their candidates will double this year....as they have bought the Supreme Court too....it is astounding.......you are correct, voting has never been more important.
 
Well, if you want to make all these charges against the Republicans you should also remember to compliment some of your most undesirable donors like George Sorros a full blown money grabber that is also a foreign born socialist leaning toward communist controls. He is really a bad man in actuality.

Or maybe just take a few minutes to read this article that does not even claim the Koch's are big time for either party. So here is a link to a speech by your beloved, and non producing leader of the Senate, Harry Reid. There are billionaires backing both parties so you arguments make no sense at all. Interessting that in this article they say there is no real way to track the Koch's donation. If so then some of the reports used above may not be true at all.

"For example, despite being Reid’s biggest rhetorical targets, brothers David and Charles Koch do not appear as donors on any of the campaign finance information we reviewed. The two businessmen co-founded Americans for Prosperity, an influential conservative super PAC."

An interesting thing to keep in mind is the constant slipping of numbers in both of the major parties as the Democrats and Republicans have both slipped to about 30% each and the independents have risen to fill the 40% remaining.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...o-many-billionaires-support-democratic-party/

[h=1]How many billionaires support the Democratic vs. Republican parties?[/h] By Lauren Carroll on Monday, June 23rd, 2014 at 4:28 p.m.
 
How predictable.. Bring up the Kochs.. and a Conservative will by reflex blurt out George Sorros.. It's almost like the BENGHAZI tick they have seemed to develop.

Don't notice Sorros interfering and buying local governments in order to push any agenda. Yes.. we have billionaire contributors.. and thank GOD.. Imagine what this country would be like for the average person if Liberals couldn't counter some of the propaganda coming from the Right... post Citizen's United. AND yes.. the Kochs have gone through great lengths to hide their fundings.. BUT.. not with much success.. AND it has PO'd them off royally. Why wouldn't they want to be transparent?

Your saying the Kochs are NOT involved up to the eyeballs in these nefarious organizations is as funny as the 50% of Americans pay no taxes myth Bob..


Here's a list

American Legislative Exchange Council (received a loan of $500,000 in 1996)[SUP][4][/SUP]
Cato Institute
Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation
George Mason University
George Mason University Foundation, Inc.
Heritage Foundation
Institute for Justice
Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment
Reason Foundation
Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies
Institute for Humane Studies
Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy
Washington Legal Foundation
Capital Research Center
Competitive Enterprise Institute
Ethics and Public Policy Center, Inc.
National Center for Policy Analysis
Citizens for Congressional Reform Foundation
Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, Inc.
Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty
Political Economy Research Center, Inc.
Media Institute
National Foundation for Teaching Entrepreneurship
University of Chicago
Defenders of Property Rights
University of Kansas Endowment Assocation
Texas Public Policy Foundation
Center for Individual Rights
Heartland Institute
Texas Justice Foundation
Institute for Policy Innovation
Center of the American Experiment
Atlas Economic Research Foundation
Young America's Foundation
Henry Hazlitt Foundation
Atlantic Legal Foundation
National Taxpayers Union Foundation
Families Against Mandatory Minimums
Philanthropy Roundtable
Free Enterprise Institute
John Locke Foundation
Hudson Institute, Inc.
Alexis de Tocqueville Institution
National Environmental Policy Institute
Washington University
Pacific Legal Foundation
American Council for Capital Formation
Institute for Political Economy
State Policy Network
Fraser Institute
Mackinac Center
Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation
Institute for Objectivist Studies
Americans for Prosperity Bill of Rights Institute
Mercatus Center
Whitman College

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Family_Foundations
 
Sorry, but you are just showing how biased you are always putting down anything done on an equal basis. It is as if you only think far left pubs tell the absolute truth while centered or right tell lies or distortions. You have completely changed the topic of this thread from billionaires giving their wealth to good projects into one of only the far left really know what iis good for the US Such an imagination that is.

Siince you have gone over and over to keep this topic on how great the far left is, I will now leave my own post to you and your poorly placed nonsense things. This last post of mine was intended to show how a mixed group, left and right, think about things but being honest and fair is not something you feel up to. So have a good day posting your biased and dishonest nonsense.

I know, you should feel relieved, so you can continue to post biased and one sided ites and pretend they are total truth.
 
BobF said:
Sorry, but you are just showing how biased you are always putting down anything done on an equal basis. It is as if you only think far left pubs tell the absolute truth while centered or right tell lies or distortions. You have completely changed the topic of this thread from billionaires giving their wealth to good projects into one of only the far left really know what iis good for the US Such an imagination that is.

Siince you have gone over and over to keep this topic on how great the far left is, I will now leave my own post to you and your poorly placed nonsense things. This last post of mine was intended to show how a mixed group, left and right, think about things but being honest and fair is not something you feel up to. So have a good day posting your biased and dishonest nonsense.

I know, you should feel relieved, so you can continue to post biased and one sided ites and pretend they are total truth.
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Sorry... I may be biased, but when the Right tries to equate the actions of the Kochs to that of George Sorros.. IMO is just a matter of blatant false equivalency. A favorite counter of the Right is "Well you do it too".. Doesn't fly with me. It's juvenile.
 
I think that money contributions by billionaires (on both sides) have a great effect in the way this country is being run. I think it's scary to think of the reality of how much power the banks, large corporations and the rich have with all decision making and money manipulation in America. The politicians in the government, including the President, seem to have just become puppets to these people behind the scenes. When they succeed in manipulating the voting system, which has been happening slowly over many years, the average middle-class citizen will be completely ignored.
 
The solution is an amendment to the Constitution to overturn the disasterous Citizens United ruling issued by the Conservative majority of the Supreme court. .. the amendment would state that Corporations are NOT people and money is not Speech. Those with the most money should NOT have more free speech than the rest.

Then there would have to be campaign reform legislation, putting limits on individual and corporate campaign contributions and insisting on transparency. No secret dark money.

Third.. The Fairness doctrine.. (eliminated by Reagan) needs to be reinstated. This stipulated that any broadcast offering political opinions had to allow for rebuttal by the opposing side. People would not be fed a constant diet of propaganda in order to sway elections.
 

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