Boston Hospital refuses Heart transplants on Un-vaccinated patients..

Rah-Rah

Member
I think they are afraid. Since when did store personnel become cops? There is danger. Recently, restaurant people in NYC were physically attacked trying to enforce the mask rule. Perhaps a large store has the means to hire security. I definitely agree with you in principle, it's just that I know too many people these days are not playing with a full deck.
I totally agree with you on this. This entire thing has gotten way out of hand. When people cannot even safely feel like they can enforce there jobs something is seriously wrong.
 

JaniceM

Well-known Member
I think they are afraid. Since when did store personnel become cops? There is danger. Recently, restaurant people in NYC were physically attacked trying to enforce the mask rule. Perhaps a large store has the means to hire security. I definitely agree with you in principle, it's just that I know too many people these days are not playing with a full deck.
Not to go off-topic, but addressing your post- in some instances, individuals who work security in stores are off-duty police officers.
 

win231

SF VIP
Location
CA
It would seem to be a waste of a good heart to try to transplant it into a patient which had minimal chances of survival. If being unvaccinated makes such a medical procedure unlikely to succeed, the doctors made the right decision.

Personally, I think that if an unvaccinated person shows up at a hospital, with Covid, they should be given a free bottle of aspirin, and sent on their way.
Yes, it's a waste of a good heart to transplant it into a patient who has minimal chances of survival.
But they will do it for a patient who has money - as they did to Mickey Mantle. (post #15) sacrificing others who are more likely to benefit.
And they also did it for Steve Jobs - after he "anonymously" donated $40 million to the hospital - with the same poor outcome - which was predictable.
I just recalled another example of money & greed:
Years ago, Garth Brooks donated $500,000 to have a cancer ward built in a hospital where his mother was treated for cancer before she died. A few years later, he found out NOTHING had been built & the money went into some hospital associates' pockets.
Mr. Brooks sued the hospital & the judge made the thieves pay back DOUBLE the donated amount.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-suit-against-hospital-idUSTRE80O0BS20120125
 

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Rah-Rah

Member
Yes, it's a waste of a good heart to transplant it into a patient who has minimal chances of survival.
But they will do it for a patient who has money - as they did to Mickey Mantle. (post #15) sacrificing others who are more likely to benefit.
And they also did it for Steve Jobs - after he "anonymously" donated $40 million to the hospital - with the same poor outcome.
I agree with you 100% that money speaks loudly in the world and that is wrong in many ways and also in this sort of situation. Two wrongs certainly don't make a right.
 

Jeni

Senior Member
Still if the store has a policy it has to be followed and the managers are the ones to make sure it is followed.
It should have never been put on businesses to enforce any of this.....
Do you truly believe these folks are compensated enough to risk injury or whatever for a mask?

Half the stores here ....the employees have mask lower then nose etc if manager does not correct that ........they certainly are not approaching a unknown person not wearing one....
Many here just quit wearing them and no one seems to bother .....
 

win231

SF VIP
Location
CA
Still if the store has a policy it has to be followed and the managers are the ones to make sure it is followed.
A manager is not paid to be a police officer. Nor is he trained & he also is not equipped to enforce laws. No badge, no gun, no authority.
People have been injured over stupid mask arguments. Any manager who gets involved in one is a fool.

Years ago, I applied for & was hired in a clerical position - record keeping, computer inputting, data entry, etc. in a Government run
Halfway House for inmates that were 6 months away from parole. During my interview, I was told that I would have absolutely no interaction with inmates.
After I'd been working there for a month, my supervisor told me to assist with mandatory drug testing & she handed me an instruction sheet, which explained the procedure. The instructions included, "I must personally witness the urine sample enter the bottle."
I told my supervisor, "My job duties don't include being in a small, confined bathroom with a dangerous prison inmate & watching him pee."
She said, "When we need help, you gotta help." I told her "Get someone else to help."
 

Rah-Rah

Member
It should have never been put on businesses to enforce any of this.....
Do you truly believe these folks are compensated enough to risk injury or whatever for a mask?

Half the stores here ....the employees have mask lower then nose etc if manager does not correct that ........they certainly are not approaching a unknown person not wearing one....
Many here just quit wearing them and no one seems to bother .....
I am not saying it is the job of the regular employees to do this. It is the job of the managers though of the stores to enforce it. Many businesses established there own mask policies and I imagine they came from the top of the chain. Unfortunately it is up to Middle Management to enforce it in the stores. I do understand because the craziness of this world today and how this has gotten out of hand the risks involved with telling someone to either wear a mask while in a store or please exit the store could turn ugly which I find ridiculous , but that is the way many people are today. So I totally understand both sides of this . I certainly wouldn't want to have to be a manager in a store and have to enforce it, but if I was being paid as one I guess I would deal with it.

I also know what you mean about the employees wear the masks below their noses or not at all and that is also the fault of the managers. I would think it would be somewhat easier to talk with an employee about wearing a mask then a customer.
 

Rah-Rah

Member
A manager is not paid to be a police officer. Nor is he trained & he also is not equipped to enforce laws. No badge, no gun, no authority.
People have been injured over stupid mask arguments. Any manager who gets involved in one is a fool.

Years ago, I applied for & was hired in a clerical position - record keeping, computer inputting, data entry, etc. in a Government run
Halfway House for inmates that were 6 months away from parole. During my interview, I was told that I would have absolutely no interaction with inmates.
After I'd been working there for a month, my supervisor told me to assist with mandatory drug testing & she handed me an instruction sheet, which explained the procedure. The instructions included, "I must personally witness the urine sample enter the bottle."
I told my supervisor, "My job duties don't include being in a small, confined bathroom with a dangerous prison inmate & watching him pee."
She said, "When we need help, you gotta help." I told her "Get someone else to help."
The sad thing is it shouldn't even be a thought to any of that. If the policy to shop within the store states you have to wear a mask you either wear the mask for the time you are in the store or you go shopping somewhere else. Pretty simple. As stated in a previous post by someone else someone said some people neglect to wear a mask knowing full well the policy only to cause some sort of disturbance. That is entirely wrong.
 

Irwin

Well-known Member
This guy, DJ Ferguson, says vaccines are against his principles, or perhaps just this vaccine. He "doesn't believe in it," says his father.

He doesn't believe in the science behind the vaccine? Or is it a religious principle? I didn't see anything about his religion in the article, though. My guess is that the vaccine violates his political party's stance.

So getting a vaccine is "against his beliefs," but he doesn't have a problem with his heart being replaced with someone else's. What else goes against his beliefs? Antibiotics? I'm sure he'll have to take other medication to prevent his body from rejecting the new heart. Will taking those go against his beliefs? He'll no doubt give it serious thought as to what will be put into his body.

Or not.
 

win231

SF VIP
Location
CA
This guy, DJ Ferguson, says vaccines are against his principles, or perhaps just this vaccine. He "doesn't believe in it," says his father.

He doesn't believe in the science behind the vaccine? Or is it a religious principle? I didn't see anything about his religion in the article, though. My guess is that the vaccine violates his political party's stance.

So getting a vaccine is "against his beliefs," but he doesn't have a problem with his heart being replaced with someone else's. What else goes against his beliefs? Antibiotics? I'm sure he'll have to take other medication to prevent his body from rejecting the new heart. Will taking those go against his beliefs? He'll no doubt give it serious thought as to what will be put into his body.

Or not.
You have fallen into the "All or Nothing" mindset. We are free to choose which vaccines, drugs, or procedures we want. It's "A la Carte."
The fact that someone doesn't trust one drug or procedure or vaccine doesn't mean they don't trust any drug or procedure or vaccine.
 

Becky1951

🌹
Location
Tennessee
I totally agree with you on this. This entire thing has gotten way out of hand. When people cannot even safely feel like they can enforce there jobs something is seriously wrong.
I remember early on in the mask requirement reading about a bus driver who told 3 men entering the bus they had to wear a mask, one of them shot and killed him.

He was only following company rules and lost his life over it. So sad.

I agree with wearing masks, but I do not agree that employees should be placed in a position to enforce that rule, it has become to dangerous.
 

Rah-Rah

Member
I remember early on in the mask requirement reading about a bus driver who told 3 men entering the bus they had to wear a mask, one of them shot and killed him.

He was only following company rules and lost his life over it. So sad.

I agree with wearing masks, but I do not agree that employees should be placed in a position to enforce that rule, it has become to dangerous.
The problem is people are getting tired of all of this. I am including in this statement many vaccinated people. I have heard many vaccinated & boosted people say why do I have to wear a mask. Well the answer is quite simple actual, you are first not completely immune to the virus and you wear the mask to keep yourself as safe as possibly from others who you may not know who are carrying the virus.

It is very sad that people today seem to find argument or something to disagree with in just about everything. It seems like nowadays if someone does not think and believe the way you want them to believe then they are completely wrong and become the enemy. I have seen many friendly relationships lost over this ridiculous political crap and Covid crap. It is a down right shame.
 

Jeni

Senior Member
The sad thing is it shouldn't even be a thought to any of that. If the policy to shop within the store states you have to wear a mask you either wear the mask for the time you are in the store or you go shopping somewhere else. Pretty simple. As stated in a previous post by someone else someone said some people neglect to wear a mask knowing full well the policy only to cause some sort of disturbance. That is entirely wrong.
out of curiosity............ I reached out and checked with a Manager ( close friend) of a store that is one of the top 3 largest grocery chains in the US.
Their policy Was for a manager offer a mask but if customer said they had exception etc walk away .....

Now policy is have some on hand in case a customer requests one but they are NOT allowed to say anything to them.

they may put on signs it is store policy to encourage people to comply but they were told months ago to NOT engage....
Unless you work for or have access to a person people may assume what policy is
 

Rah-Rah

Member
out of curiosity............ I reached out and checked with a Manager ( close friend) of a store that is one of the top 3 largest grocery chains in the US.
Their policy Was for a manager offer a mask but if customer said they had exception etc walk away .....

Now policy is have some on hand in case a customer requests one but they are NOT allowed to say anything to them.

they may put on signs it is store policy to encourage people to comply but they were told months ago to NOT engage....
Unless you work for or have access to a person people may assume what policy is
Most stores have a sign before you enter the store that states before entering please have your mask on. Some of the larger stores such as Target and Walmart even have greeters when you enter the store. I have even seen security at those large stores as well around the entrance of the stores in my area. Now I would not expect the greeters to say a word to any customer walking into the store without a mask on if it was required. As for the Security workers I would hope they would say something. Now in my state these indoor mask mandates differ from county to county. For example, in my county there is no indoor mask mandate. As for Baltimore County, Howard County, Prince George's County(I believe) and Baltimore City they do have a mask mandate to wear a mask indoors. So if I go to Baltimore County then people should have them on indoors which is not always the case. I rarely travel to the other counties. My county there is no requirement. I am not sure how the other States work. As for managers approaching customers, you may be correct that they are just recommending them to either taking one that they offer and leaving it at that. I agree it is not worth getting into a huge argument or altercation in some incidents over something like that.
 

AnnieA

Well-known Member
Location
Down South
Is he mentally challenged? If so, might not he have guardianship over him? No, holly dear, he's an American Idiot, like the song says.

Just as people all over the world who make poor health decisions. I hesitate to call them idiots because I've worked with them. They're human and there are a lot of psychological barriers to good health practices of all sorts.

In the Western world, the majority of money spent in medical care is for obesity related illnesses ...and obesity just happens to be a risk factor for poor Covid-19 outcomes AND the obese are more likely not to produce an adequate immune response to vaccines. Then there's smoking. I can understand the people who say the unvaccinated should pay for all their medical expenses because I've long thought that lung cancer smokers should pay out of pocket, that alcoholics should pay for all their liver disease care--it's not what I truly want because I do realize to actually do so is morally wrong, but frustrating so I understand the intolerance with vaccine hesitency hough I think their thinking is immoral as well.
 

Rah-Rah

Member
Just as people all over the world who make poor health decisions. I hesitate to call them idiots because I've worked with them. They're human and there are a lot of psychological barriers to good health practices of all sorts.

In the Western world, the majority of money spent in medical care is for obesity related illnesses ...and obesity just happens to be a risk factor for poor Covid-19 outcomes AND the obese are more likely not to produce an adequate immune response to vaccines. Then there's smoking. I can understand the people who say the unvaccinated should pay for all their medical expenses because I've long thought that lung cancer smokers should pay out of pocket, that alcoholics should pay for all their liver disease care--it's not what I truly want because I do realize to actually do so is morally wrong, but frustrating so I understand the intolerance with vaccine hesitency hough I think their thinking is immoral as well.
I agree with you. It in my opinion is a poor health decision. To this person for whatever reason it was not. I have in my many years have made poor decisions along the way. Many to which my Mom and Dad told me upfront that I was not making a good decision. I had to learn for myself and the learning process whether it be a life situation or a health related situation sometimes you have to learn for yourself.

That is the way I truly look at all of this. I have made my decisions about Covid itself and the vaccines whether someone agrees with my decisions on them it doesn't matter to me one bit. I will deal with the consequences of my decisions if there comes a time that there are any to deal with and they won't. The same goes for any other person. Sure I have thought about the consequences of the long term effects of the vaccine, but I weighed out my options at this time and made my decision. My decision was my own and not slanted because of any political agenda or conspiracy theory or anything on the media or anything. I weighed out the situation that was sitting in front of me with people coming down with this virus and many becoming severely ill and even dying and I made my decision. It was all just sitting in front of me happening and it didn't make a bit of difference what statistics Dr. Fauci was saying or whatever Donald Trump was saying at the time it was what was actually happening in the world that made me make my decision. Nothing more, nothing less. Simple as that.
 

win231

SF VIP
Location
CA
The sad thing is it shouldn't even be a thought to any of that. If the policy to shop within the store states you have to wear a mask you either wear the mask for the time you are in the store or you go shopping somewhere else. Pretty simple. As stated in a previous post by someone else someone said some people neglect to wear a mask knowing full well the policy only to cause some sort of disturbance. That is entirely wrong.
Of course it's wrong. I wouldn't go to any indoor public place without a mask; doesn't matter whether I think it protects or not.
 

Shero

Senior Member
The hospital did the right thing 100%, why waste a heart when it could be given to a smarter person! He was first on the list, now he is no longer on the list.

Ferguson ( the man) has two children ( what a loving father! not) and is expecting a third with his partner Heather, according to a GoFundMe page set up for him.

Brigham and Women’s Hospital, which is a Harvard teaching facility, said research had shown transplant recipients were at a much higher risk of dying from Covid compared to non-transplant patients.

“We do everything we can to ensure that a patient who receives a transplanted organ has the greatest chance of survival,” a spokesman told The Post.
.
 

ohioboy

Registered nitwit
Location
Ohio
Not to go off-topic, but addressing your post- in some instances, individuals who work security in stores are off-duty police officers.
That does not necessarily mean, state specific, that they retain police powers, but are considered as actual private security, but most from what I know, they retain full police authority.
 

Rah-Rah

Member
It's pure discrimination. They say he's going to die because he's unvaxxed? Oh please. The disease has a 99+ survival rate especially in people his age.
You obviously did not fully read what they are saying. They stated clearly that a heart transplant patient regardless of the age if they do not have the vaccine are much more likely to die after the procedure from Covid then from anything related to the transplant itself. So in that case it is much wiser to give the heart to someone who is vaccinated that will more than likely not pass away from Covid. That is what the hospitals decision was based on and not pure discrimination.
 

dseag2

Dallas, TX
Location
Dallas, TX
It would seem to be a waste of a good heart to try to transplant it into a patient which had minimal chances of survival. If being unvaccinated makes such a medical procedure unlikely to succeed, the doctors made the right decision.

Personally, I think that if an unvaccinated person shows up at a hospital, with Covid, they should be given a free bottle of aspirin, and sent on their way.
Well said!
 


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