@grahamg said "However, the idea one parent has to allow another to rule over them in all circumstances just wont do will it(?)."
Of course not and i agreed about that in my first response to this thread. Which you ignored, but then moaned about mild disagreement with Morris. Shouldn't discussions be as much about finding points of agreement as debating the ones we disagree about???
i would not be who i am today (nobody significant/important in grand design of the world, but a human being who does her best to help and be kind to other human beings) without the input and example of my Dad in my first decade of life. So i know how important fathers are. i have always supported the idea that sometimes the Dad's should be the primary residence of the children or some of the children--depending on many factors but most importantly emotional stability and having some common sense about how to raise children. i have ranted about the US court system which seems to be biased in favor of maternal custody because it more often rules in favor of Mom having residential custody. i won't side track the discussion by bringing the unintended consequences of that tendency particularly in lower socio-economic middle class, and just plain lower socio-economic class (working poor) families. Because my point here is that i have long advocated for how important fathers are and how parents where-ever their relationship goes need to put the emotional as well as physical well-being of their children first.
But, i can't agree with the new Morris point you brought up: "... when declaring the relaxation of divorce laws would lead to an epidemic of lonely, or broken hearted people." Seriously? You think it is healthy for anyone, especially children to live in a contentious, unhappy household where the parents are not getting along at all? Do you have any idea how many people are living in marital houses and STILL lonely and heartbroken because it is not meeting their expectations (hopes/dreams) about marital bliss???? Many of the unrealistic expectations are fostered by movies and books that all too often end the romance story with marriage--when the working at it part begins.
i agree that people in recent generations too quickly resort to divorcing. But the logical solution is not to make divorce harder, but make getting married harder. These days the 'blood tests' in general not nearly as important as premarital counseling---with a goal of having the couple talk about all the truly crucial realities of married life: finances, division of labor (both in and outside home), children (way too many couples get married without even discussing if they both want children, much less on how to raise them); what house rules should be in place for kids at various ages, what kinds of disciplines will be used; discussing house rules for guests should be discussed--both family and friends. In the long run society benefits when the number of stable intact, loving families increases. But we have to acknowledge that sometimes love is not enough, at this point there are already so many 'walking wounded' (emotionally) in western cultures that often people's 'issues', if they don't both fully commit to working on those issues individually and together, keep them from being able to be happily together. Open,
honest communication is crucial.
Let me be clear, while in general i think we are each responsible for our own levels of happiness, it is undeniable that unpleasant interactions particularly within intimate relations can be a huge roadblock to mere 'contentment' or 'peace of mind' much less actual joy in life. One should not expect anyone else to 'make' them happy, but it is also reasonable to request your most intimate partner not constantly erode, obstruct you finding your own level of well-being. (And you should be trying to facilitate them finding theirs).
And i repeat for the third time in this thread that i agree with you about the 'gatekeeper' thing: Just because it occurs does not mean it is the way it should be, that it is healthy for anyone. But neither parent should the 'rule' in anyway over the other, including the other's relationship with their joint children and including if they divorce, rather they should co-operate in the best interests of the children. (Proper premarital counseling might help more couples discover how much they disagree on what is in the best interests of future children---and in some cases that might be that those two people
not marry and reproduce.)