People having Covid have a wide range of symptoms, some mild, some moderate and some severe, some no symptoms. Now there is a vaccine that claims to keep a person from severe illness. My question is, how do they know for sure the vaccine is causing only mild symptoms if you get the virus? If people can have mild or no symptoms with or without the vaccine, how do they know for certain it's the vaccine preventing illness?
Covid + Vaccine Question
- Thread starter Becky1951
- Start date
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Data and statistics tell the story. If nobody among the fully vaccinated is hospitalized with a severe case, but non-vaccinated folks in that same geographical area (or other cohort) continue to be hospitalized and/or die, virologists and epidemiologists can draw the conclusion that the vaccine prevents severe illness.
The immune response is how your body recognizes and defends itself against bacteria, viruses, and substances that appear foreign and harmful. Information The immune system protects the body from possibly harmful substances by recognizing and responding to antigens. Antigens are substances (usually proteins) on the surface of cells, viruses, fungi, or bacteria. Nonliving substances such as toxins, chemicals, drugs, and foreign particles (such as a splinter) can also be antigens. The immune system recognizes and
destroys, or tries to destroy, substances that contain antigens. Your body's cells have proteins that are antigens. These include a group of antigens called HLA antigens. Your immune system learns to see these antigens as normal and usually does not react against them.
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000821.htm
Will a COVID-19 vaccination protect me from getting sick with COVID-19? illustration of a person Yes. COVID-19 vaccination works by teaching your immune system how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19, and this protects you from getting sick with COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html#:~:text=It%20typically%20takes%20a%20few,vaccination%20and%20still%20get%20sick
destroys, or tries to destroy, substances that contain antigens. Your body's cells have proteins that are antigens. These include a group of antigens called HLA antigens. Your immune system learns to see these antigens as normal and usually does not react against them.
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000821.htm
Will a COVID-19 vaccination protect me from getting sick with COVID-19? illustration of a person Yes. COVID-19 vaccination works by teaching your immune system how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19, and this protects you from getting sick with COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html#:~:text=It%20typically%20takes%20a%20few,vaccination%20and%20still%20get%20sick
If your body learns how to fight the virus, why does it need to be taught?
The data they have will be best guess or assumptions .......... based on those ill enough to seek treatment .......
all along the data disregards those whom either had mild and or no symptoms.
For many whom either were Asymptomatic or only had mild illness getting this vaccine will do nothing......
we do not even have data to know how large of a group the Asymptomatic or mild ( not seeking any treatment) have happened.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Same reason people learn to sword fight with wooden swords. You may prevail against a real sword during your first (real) fight, but are much less likely to be skewered if you've already learned some moves.
The vaccine teaches your immune system what to do during an encounter with the actual virus, but does so with using a non-lethal weapon. While being struck might bruise you, it is highly unlikely to kill you.
"The vaccine teaches your immune system what to do during an encounter with the actual virus"
So does your own immune system without the vaccine.
And no one knows the furure outcome of forcing your immune system into action.
The vaccine forces your immune system to react so what does that do to your own natural immune system? No one knows.
I don't believe it doubles it.
Will our bodies react to it's normal immune system later when we have a virus we normally have? Or will it be compromised due to it being unnaturally forced by this vaccine?
So many questions with no conclusive answers.
So does your own immune system without the vaccine.
And no one knows the furure outcome of forcing your immune system into action.
The vaccine forces your immune system to react so what does that do to your own natural immune system? No one knows.
I don't believe it doubles it.
Will our bodies react to it's normal immune system later when we have a virus we normally have? Or will it be compromised due to it being unnaturally forced by this vaccine?
So many questions with no conclusive answers.
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
In response to the question, "If your body learns how to fight the virus, why does it need to be taught?", I would ask, "If your body learns how to fight the virus, why are so many people becoming seriously ill and dying?".
I'll take my chance with a vaccine. I leave it up to others to make up their own minds.
I'll take my chance with a vaccine. I leave it up to others to make up their own minds.
^^^^ Bingo! There is likely a big difference between the immune system's response from a naturally-occurring spontaneous illness & a vaccine's artificial introduction of an illness. That may explain why so many people get the flu in spite of their flu shot. And that may also explain why I never got the flu after getting it 38 years ago, despite being exposed to the flu often during those years.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
The vaccine does what all vaccines do. Gives the body a taste of the virus so the body can build up antibodies. When and if it encounters the actual virus, the body is ready for it.
From the CDC:
How Vaccines Work
Vaccines help develop immunity by imitating an infection. This type of infection, however, almost never causes illness, but it does cause the immune system to produce T-lymphocytes and antibodies. Sometimes, after getting a vaccine, the imitation infection can cause minor symptoms, such as fever. Such minor symptoms are normal and should be expected as the body builds immunity.Once the imitation infection goes away, the body is left with a supply of “memory” T-lymphocytes, as well as B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight that disease in the future. However, it typically takes a few weeks for the body to produce T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes after vaccination. Therefore, it is possible that a person infected with a disease just before or just after vaccination could develop symptoms and get a disease, because the vaccine has not had enough time to provide protection.
The Bottom Line
Some people believe that naturally acquired immunity—immunity from having the disease itself—is better than the immunity provided by vaccines. However, natural infections can cause severe complications and be deadly. This is true even for diseases that many people consider mild, like chickenpox. It is impossible to predict who will get serious infections that may lead to hospitalization.Vaccines, like any medication, can cause side effects. The most common side effects are mild. However, many vaccine-preventable disease symptoms can be serious, or even deadly. Although many of these diseases are rare in this country, they do circulate around the world and can be brought into the U.S., putting unvaccinated children at risk. Even with advances in health care, the diseases that vaccines prevent can still be very serious – and vaccination is the best way to prevent them.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html
Lewkat
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey, USA
Due to pre-existing conditions or certain treatments, some people have weakened immune systems and they cannot learn to fight off the antigens. Also, I might add, genetic coding also has a lot to do with how our immune systems react when invaded by a foreign substance. Not everyone is wired the same and even though otherwise healthy, simply have lousy DNA and are not going to have a good immune system.
I know how vaccines work. But this vaccine is not the usual type of vaccine.
"The vaccine does what all vaccines do. Gives the body a taste of the virus so the body can build up antibodies."
The virus isn't in this vaccine. Instead something that hasn't been used or tested long enough before is being used.
I know some are tired of my questioning every aspect of the vaccine. I can't help that. I have doubts that I am trying to overcome with information. The problem is the more information, the more questions.
And once again, I'm not trying to sway anyone's decision to get or not get vaccinated.
"The vaccine does what all vaccines do. Gives the body a taste of the virus so the body can build up antibodies."
The virus isn't in this vaccine. Instead something that hasn't been used or tested long enough before is being used.
I know some are tired of my questioning every aspect of the vaccine. I can't help that. I have doubts that I am trying to overcome with information. The problem is the more information, the more questions.
And once again, I'm not trying to sway anyone's decision to get or not get vaccinated.
Lewkat
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey, USA
The Pfizer vaccine I receive contained a spike of attenuated virus. LuThe fact that I'd already suffered through a bout of the COVID-19 last spring makes me wonder if I am uber sensitive to this virus to have caused the reaction I had to the vaccine. Luckilly, I have an excellent immune system and thought I can be very ill for awhile, I bounce back quickly. As I age, this is less likely to occur much longer.
"Attenuated virus: A weakened, less vigorous virus. An attenuated virus may be used to make a vaccine that is capable of stimulating an immune response and creating immunity, but not of causing illness."
"Unlike a traditional vaccine that uses inactivated, dead, or portions of actual virus to spur an immune response, mRNA delivers a message to your body’s cells via a lipid nanoparticle envelope that instructs the cells to generate the spike protein found on the surface of a coronavirus that initiates infection.[vi],[vii] Instructing cells to generate the spike protein spurs an immune response, including generation of antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein."
https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/the_facts_about_pfizer_and_biontech_s_covid_19_vaccine
I think you can see the confusion here.
Definition of Attenuated virus - MedicineNet
www.medicinenet.com › attenuated_virus › definition"Unlike a traditional vaccine that uses inactivated, dead, or portions of actual virus to spur an immune response, mRNA delivers a message to your body’s cells via a lipid nanoparticle envelope that instructs the cells to generate the spike protein found on the surface of a coronavirus that initiates infection.[vi],[vii] Instructing cells to generate the spike protein spurs an immune response, including generation of antibodies specific to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein."
https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/the_facts_about_pfizer_and_biontech_s_covid_19_vaccine
I think you can see the confusion here.