Department stores a thing of the past?

Sunny

Sunny

SF VIP
Location
Maryland
This was in today's paper. It describes the collapse of nearly all the mall-type department store chains, and even those that have not totally collapsed, such as Macy's, are not doing well. Mainly, this is due to the pandemic. But even when it is safe to go back to the mall, millions of people would rather not. They've gotten used to shopping online, like the safely, convenience, ability to zero in on exactly what you are looking for, huge variety available online, etc. The article said the malls were the big thing of the 20th century. Online shopping belongs to the 21st.

I am one of the people they are talking about. Although we formerly had a large number of excellent malls, some of the more upscale ones beautiful places to go, with restaurants, movie theaters, etc. many of them (most?) have closed. I don't miss them. I am one of those who have gotten used to buying pretty much everything, except food, online. I've even used Amazon for tiny purchases like Scotch tape and envelopes! With Prime, delivery of nearly everything bought from Amazon has free delivery within 1 or 2 days.

The only aspect I don't like is the inability to try on a piece of clothing before buying. Sometimes we are not sure about the size, or even how the fabric looks and feels "in person." But they do make it pretty easy to return stuff if necessary.

The stores are trying to find ways to revitalize themselves, maybe minus the "mall" experience, just as stand-alone stores with extra features. The whole thing is interesting, and a little bit sad.
 

I miss the locally owned department stores that I grew up with.

I'm as guilty as anyone for contributing to their collapse. When I was a young adult price and convenience were more important to me than the quality that traditional department stores offered.

My hope is that as people's shopping habits change some of the mega malls can shift to include housing/apartments, along with shopping, services, entertainment.

It would be nice to grow old in a place where everything I need is only an elevator ride away.
 

Well when it comes to clothes I'll go in and try it on. I figure I got both my jabs and as long as I wear my mask and keep my distance I'll be alright. I'm a big boy. I can't rely on mail services to get the right size for me.
 
Ah Dead Mall Syndrome.

The problem with traditional department stores is that they focused too much on a niche higher end customer base and impulse buyer. In other words they all should've maintained a regular assortment of discounted or sale merchandise to compete with the big box stores. Just because it's elegantly displayed doesn't mean people will buy.

https://sephlawless.com/inside-creepiest-abandoned-malls/

Malls used to jumping around xmas now it's Halloween
 
Well we have lost a lot of department stores mainly due to the pandemic, but we still have a few, and we certainly still have our Malls, thank goodness. In fact I was in one this evening.. bought myself a linen blouse from one of our larger department stores..(y)
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Malls died, but I think brick & mortar stores are going to hang in there. Walmart is a department store, so is Target. Malls were heavily overbuilt, no way were they realistically going to show a profit, when there was another one ten feet away. Plus, I think "shopping" is not as great a pastime as it once was.
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Malls were a trillion dollar business for developers and owners.

I never liked malls. It was okay to see one or two per city but when they sprung up on practically every corner, local businesses died. I'd be happy to see locally owned businesses come back.

At least one mall that closed some time ago was turned into low-income/affordable apartments. Shops were kept on the ground floor, including a coffee shop and a diner, and the two upper levels are small efficiency apartments. I think that one's in New York, and I think there are others.
 
Murrmurr said:
Malls were a trillion dollar business for developers and owners.

I never liked malls. It was okay to see one or two per city but when they sprung up on practically every corner, local businesses died. I'd be happy to see locally owned businesses come back.

At least one mall that closed some time ago was turned into low-income/affordable apartments. Shops were kept on the ground floor, including a coffee shop and a diner, and the two upper levels are small efficiency apartments. I think that one's in New York, and I think there are others.
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You knew malls were in trouble when they started having baseball card and car shows in them by the early 1990s. Many malls would never allow that because they want people shopping or at least in the stores so they can sell something to help pay their expensive rent.

Exhibitions, shows etc were considered to have pulled business from the mall stores when in fact they probably helped some stores by bringing traffic to mall
 
katlupe said:
We had one of those higher scale department stores here downtown. I went in there once or twice but it was a little high priced for me. Nice clothing though. It was just gone out of business after 40 years. Family owned.
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That's the thing. Malls limited their client base. People can afford(hopefully) to shop at Walmart or Target with regularity. Just buying one suit in mall department store would be about 1/2 dozen trips to a box store a month.
 
Sunny said:
The only aspect I don't like is the inability to try on a piece of clothing before buying. Sometimes we are not sure about the size, or even how the fabric looks and feels "in person."
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I really miss being able to try clothes on first, but the last few times I went to the mall (5 or 6 years ago I think) there wasn't much variety or clothes that I liked and I wound up wasting money buying the least-bad clothes they had, and then I found I really disliked them and donated the clothes after finding better things online. I also feel so conspicuous at department stores because I figure security people are watching me on camera, I hate feeling watched.

My wish is that laws would be passed to require online sellers to list the actual measurements of clothes instead of sizes that are meaningless even among styles from the same brand. When I buy used shirts from eBay I really appreciate the measurements some sellers list, I've found there is a particular length of shirt that I am most happy with.

But when I buy new clothes from online new-clothes retailers, even if I own the exact same item from a few years ago, buying the same size is a total roll-of-the-dice. The outdoorsy shirts I wear to mow have changed to have much narrower hips.

And maybe require sellers of garments to provide a history of when they have changed the material. The old standby jockey ribbed t-shirts are now made from a different material that has virtually no elastic hold so were a waste of my money. My favorite bras changed to a fabric whose stretch gives out after about 4 hours - more of my money wasted.
 
HoneyNut said:
I really miss being able to try clothes on first, but the last few times I went to the mall (5 or 6 years ago I think) there wasn't much variety or clothes that I liked and I wound up wasting money buying the least-bad clothes they had, and then I found I really disliked them and donated the clothes after finding better things online. I also feel so conspicuous at department stores because I figure security people are watching me on camera, I hate feeling watched.

My wish is that laws would be passed to require online sellers to list the actual measurements of clothes instead of sizes that are meaningless even among styles from the same brand. When I buy used shirts from eBay I really appreciate the measurements some sellers list, I've found there is a particular length of shirt that I am most happy with.

But when I buy new clothes from online new-clothes retailers, even if I own the exact same item from a few years ago, buying the same size is a total roll-of-the-dice. The outdoorsy shirts I wear to mow have changed to have much narrower hips.

And maybe require sellers of garments to provide a history of when they have changed the material. The old standby jockey ribbed t-shirts are now made from a different material that has virtually no elastic hold so were a waste of my money. My favorite bras changed to a fabric whose stretch gives out after about 4 hours - more of my money wasted.
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Shoes, too. I ordered a pair online once. Had to give them to my nephew. Never again.
 
One thing that turned me off to some of our local dept stores is that they tried to cut expenses by having one centralized checkout instead of paying at the dept where you selected the item. A couple years ago, before pandemic, I went to a Macy’s hoping to get a couple of sale items. When I found out I’d have to stand in a huge line waiting for one or two cashiers, I dropped the stuff & left.
 
Shoes are one thing that really should be tried on, unless they're something like a standard brand of running shoes that you always get, and you definitely know your size.

My area had a very popular mall back in the 70's - 80's, with locally owned department stores that were very popular with the local people. There were three of them, plus a Sears. They all (except Sears) ended up selling out to Macy's, J.C. Penney's, etc., and everybody still misses them. They were perfect middle-class stores, with moderate prices. Not Walmart, but not Nieman-Marcus either. That mall is still operational, but nobody really loves it any more. I think the online option has taken away a lot of their business, and why fight the traffic, put up with parking difficulties, etc. to to go to a Macy's?

Another terrible thing about those brick and mortar stores, especially the ones in the malls, is the lack of sufficient sales help. Just try to find anyone to help you find something or answer a question! It's not even easy to find a checkout counter when you are ready to pay for something. The last time I shopped at J.C. Penney, there was exactly one checkout counter for the entire level of the store, the one that sold women's clothes! I swore never again.

P.S. Geezerette, I just saw your note above mine. Sounds like we both had the same experience!
 
Malls, in our area, are becoming increasingly deserted. Between online shopping, and stores like Walmart and Target, it's becoming increasingly obvious to many people that they can buy a given item cheaper than at a Mall. The malls have thousands of sq. ft. of open space that generates No revenue, yet requires heating, cooling, maintenance, property taxes, etc., which adds to the "overhead" on the price of items sold there. Some of the stores which used to be the "anchors" for the malls....such as Sears, and Penney's, are going bankrupt,

I suspect that in the future, many of these malls will be converted to apartments, or demolished.
 
Clothes and shoes are a little difficult to buy online unless you buy several of the exact same thing in different colors (which I have done). Amazon Prime has a new thing where you can order the same item in different sizes and colors, try them on and return what you don't want. You don't pay until you tell them what you want to keep. My husband did that with some pants and it worked OK. They sent a box for the return and all we had to do was take it to a UPS store.

Our malls and better department stores (not discount department stores like Walmart) were on the way out before Covid. It is a little sad but I don't like malls so I guess I have contributed to their decline.
 
My opinion related to stores is this, those that are utilitarian that sell general purpose work-wear, safety-gear, hardware, tools, furniture, pharmacy related things, etc, will carry on, as will specialty boutique stores that cater to high-end buyers, however, all else that falls outside the boundaries of the above and is readily available everywhere including online, will IMO be purchased online, and for less.
 
The anchor stores are usually given a heavily discounted rental rate. When they’re empty, people avoid the malls. The little stores carry the bulk of the rents to keep the malls functioning.
 
The problem will be that when Malls and Bricks and mortar stores are finally forced out of the business, and we're left with online stores only, I feel that we'll be the sorry for it...That's when prices will rise to meet high street stores because we have no choice , we can't go anywhere else by then, they'll have us by the short & curlies .

We may be able to buy things now online and return them if they don't suit ( a PITA for me anyway)...but do you think that they will make it as easy when they have no competitors offline ?
I shop online but only generally for things that would take me a long time to find going store to store..but if I want a piece of clothing or shoes, or a bed or sofa... then I want to go to the Mall or the store for them...

I will be very sad if we're left with online shopping only...

In the UK shopping is a national Pastime along with the pub culture...we're already losing our pubs at a rate of knots... I hope we don't lose our shops...
 
One other thing that may have contributed to the retail decline is lack of consumer choice. In the '70's one could go to a mall that had 3 or 4 dept. stores and there would be different merchandise in each store.

As time went on and mergers and take overs occurred more brands were swallowed up by ever bigger conglomerates that would just one model of an item and sell it under any one of the brand names they now owned.

With fewer separate companies the customer and customer service became much less important . Smaller independent companies that could niche market( tens or even hundreds of thousands of units) and still be profitable. Now the scale is in millions of units sold, one size is the most cost effective marketing for the company and if it doesn't work for you it's just too bad.

A couple of examples that come to mind are: bed linens that actually fit the mattress, jeans with odd length inseams like 29, 31, 33, or a brand name that actually meant some level of quality, not just a different name badge on the same product, or even products that one could expect to actually work beyond the warranty period.

Just my opinion.
 

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