Do You Feel You Are Free?

Murrmurr

Well-known Member
I have freedoms that people in other parts of the world don't. And when I see 20 un-helmeted guys on one bicycle someplace in Mexico, or thousands riding on the roof of a train in India, I know some parts of the world have personal freedoms that I don't have.

But as I get older and part of a smaller, less powerful demographic, I think of how the youth in countries like Germany and Russia were used to popularize political changes that they didn't fully understand and that had deadly outcomes they couldn't have predicted or even perceived of. I can imagine frail, elderly Germans, Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, and others back in the 20s, 30s and 40s shaking their heads in resignation, knowing the fate of their country and their grandchildren's future is bleak.
 

Murrmurr

Well-known Member
They've all come here because we ruled Hong Kong until 1997 for 150 years so they all think of themselves as British
But you do know what's happening in Hong Kong right now, yes? Like, it's against the new law to discuss democracy, to protest anything (but especially the new laws), against the law to own an independent newspaper or to publish anything not approved by the CCP... plus more
 

JaniceM

Well-known Member
But you do know what's happening in Hong Kong right now, yes? Like, it's against the new law to discuss democracy, to protest anything (but especially the new laws), against the law to own an independent newspaper or to publish anything not approved by the CCP... plus more
I had to do a work project on the CCP awhile back.. no wonder people who can escape are doing so.
 

JaniceM

Well-known Member
I have freedoms that people in other parts of the world don't. And when I see 20 un-helmeted guys on one bicycle someplace in Mexico, or thousands riding on the roof of a train in India, I know some parts of the world have personal freedoms that I don't have.

But as I get older and part of a smaller, less powerful demographic, I think of how the youth in countries like Germany and Russia were used to popularize political changes that they didn't fully understand and that had deadly outcomes they couldn't have predicted or even perceived of. I can imagine frail, elderly Germans, Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, and others back in the 20s, 30s and 40s shaking their heads in resignation, knowing the fate of their country and their grandchildren's future is bleak.
People in California are now required to wear helmets on bicycles??
When I lived there they weren't even required for motorcycles!
 

Murrmurr

Well-known Member
But you do know what's happening in Hong Kong right now, yes? Like, it's against the new law to discuss democracy, to protest anything (but especially the new laws), against the law to own an independent newspaper or to publish anything not approved by the CCP... plus more
@hollydolly - that sounds snarky. Sorry, I'll rephrase....

Do you not get much information about what's happening in Hong Kong right now?

It really is pretty messed up. And now their GDP is at an all-time low.
 

JaniceM

Well-known Member
I don't think so. Why should the gov't even care how many people get on a bike? Especially adult people. I believe I should have the freedom to take personal risks. My noggin, my choice?
Well, for starters, whether individuals are riding bikes on the sidewalk or street, multiple individuals on a bike would increase the risk of accidents that would involve other people (drivers or pedestrians).
 

Pepper

SF VIP
Location
NYC
People have been killed or seriously injured in NYC by idiots on bikes. It's not uncommon.They should have to carry insurance, just like on any other vehicle.
 

Murrmurr

Well-known Member
Well, for starters, whether individuals are riding bikes on the sidewalk or street, multiple individuals on a bike would increase the risk of accidents that would involve other people (drivers or pedestrians).
Yet, somehow that street in Mexico isn't riddled with human road kill.

And I kind of went off-road there, but my stance stands; I do not really feel free when the gov't makes my personal choices, behavior, and even my language their business.
 

Packerjohn

Packerjohn
Location
Canada
Here is something to think about while your "chewing your cud." I remember during my university days, we were studying some guy called John Locke. Apparently, he wrote this thesis on freedom and liberty. I hope I get this right but he said this; more or less:

Men (in those days, you didn't mention, the gals; sorry girls) are born free. However, when we live in society we have to give up some of those freedoms in order to gain the protection and benefits of society.
 

Murrmurr

Well-known Member
Here is something to think about while your "chewing your cud." I remember during my university days, we were studying some guy called John Locke. Apparently, he wrote this thesis on freedom and liberty. I hope I get this right but he said this; more or less:

Men (in those days, you didn't mention, the gals; sorry girls) are born free. However, when we live in society we have to give up some of those freedoms in order to gain the protection and benefits of society.
He also said "New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not common." That's a good one for these times. Locke philosophized about "perfect liberty" if I remember right.

James Madison wrote, “If men were angels, no government would be necessary.”
 

Ruthanne

SF VIP
Location
Midwest
Do I feel I am free?

Yes, I'm free to do as I please within my own physical and financial limitations as are most of us fortunate enough to live in this country.

This thread is about fear not freedom and I will not live in fear of any of the horrible things that COULD happen to me but PROBABLY WON'T. I'm sorry they are happening to others and sincerely hope for change but the odds of any happening to me are very slim.

I keep informed about the daily world but refuse to allow the peddlers of gloom and doom to dominate my thoughts.
Oh well...Excuse me! As Steve Martin would say. LOL. Actually I don't give a gosh darn what you think of my post since you greatly misjudged it anyway.
 
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Ruthanne

SF VIP
Location
Midwest
Lots of doom and gloom in this thread!

It’s become a hackneyed phrase, but it’s a personal truth for me. Freedom is a state of mind. Making the choice to become untethered from the need to control outcomes has been expansive and liberating for me.

Everything outside of myself is beyond my control. The only person I can control is me, which means I am entirely responsible for my reaction/response to them.

When the news of the world starts getting me down, I simply unplug from it and stop reading and listening. I personally, by myself, can’t control the prevention of a nuclear war, another Covid outbreak, one political party or another gaining power, so I unplug because I don’t have the power to control any of those outcomes. Following those stories makes me unhappy so why would I do that to myself?

Freedom for me is found in letting go of my need to control, which is where many of my anxieties are seated. I only have control over myself and my reactions to external circumstances. I find freedom in going with the flow of the things I can’t control or just ignoring them. It’s breaking free from society’s expectations and living a life that is meaningful to me, no matter how it may appear to anyone else. It’s fully embracing the idea that what others think of me is none of my business, and no longer caring what they think.

Ignorance of things one chooses to ignore can, in fact, be blissful if it’s mindful, thoughtful ignorance. 😉
Whatever... Remember to keep those anxieties under control.💕
 

Ruthanne

SF VIP
Location
Midwest
Truthfully I have a good life, not perfect but I am content.

Ruthanne I look at things a bit differently than you. You have heard the saying " don't sweat the small stuff", well I'm the opposite, I don't sweat the big stuff. There's much in the world I'm not happy with, but also realize there's little I can do. So I focus my energy and worries on what I can deal with right here at ground zero, there's simply not much I can do about the rest of it.
I think I said in the OP I was having a difficult moment and being sarcastic.
 
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Ruthanne

SF VIP
Location
Midwest
I can see that everyone that read this thread had a different take on it and only a few were thinking like I was at the moment. I guess they were the only ones who understood where I was coming from. That really doesn't matter on a forum where there is open debate, though. No offense to anyone else, have a great day y'all! 🥀
 

Just Jeff

Member
Oh yeah, I'm certainly free. I can walk down the street....I am free to get assaulted by gun or by people, I am free to get robbed, I am free to be spied on any time of the day on the internet, I am free to get gunned down by a lunatic at any time, I am free to watch the news that puts me in perpetual paranoia, I am free to keep fearing world wars coming at any second and there is just so much more!! This is all said with a hint of sarcasm which I'm famous for.
Are you free?
There is more to life I'm sure, just can't see it now.
Yes. Start or keep looking for life, including the kindom of heaven/ eternal life. You won't be disappointed.
 
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Brookswood

Member
I have freedoms that people in other parts of the world don't. And when I see 20 un-helmeted guys on one bicycle someplace in Mexico, or thousands riding on the roof of a train in India, I know some parts of the world have personal freedoms that I don't have.

But as I get older and part of a smaller, less powerful demographic, I think of how the youth in countries like Germany and Russia were used to popularize political changes that they didn't fully understand and that had deadly outcomes they couldn't have predicted or even perceived of. I can imagine frail, elderly Germans, Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, and others back in the 20s, 30s and 40s shaking their heads in resignation, knowing the fate of their country and their grandchildren's future is bleak.
I shake my head at times when I hear people in their 20's and 30's say things like "That kind of talk should not be permitted." "Speech like that is violence." etc. etc. etc. They don't seem to realize that this judgmental attitude of theirs can easily be turned around and aimed at them.

The following is from the film A Man for All Seasons.
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”

Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
― Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
 

chic

SF VIP
Location
U.S.
I don't think so. Why should the gov't even care how many people get on a bike? Especially adult people. I believe I should have the freedom to take personal risks. My noggin, my choice?
This is why we are no longer free but only exist under an illusion of freedom as we barter our true freedoms away for "safety". We are doing it to ourselves through compliance.
 

JaniceM

Well-known Member
Wellll, in my opinion, "handicapped" implies a person has some condition that's a disadvantage; whereas the term preferred these days- "disabled" means it's entirely possible for them to anything. Frankly, I don't consider it positive at all.
Sorry I didn't catch my typo til it was too late to edit.. I meant considered 'impossible' for them to do anything.
Inaccurate, and sucks.
 


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