Four people in Oregon who received both doses of vaccine

Becky1951

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Tennessee
Four people in Oregon who received both doses of vaccine

I do not understand the below quote.
Pre vaccination we're told to quarantine even if asymptomatic. Also if vaccinated you can still spread the virus. But now if vaccinated no need to quarantine?

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said that quarantining is not necessary for fully vaccinated people within three months of having received their last doses as long as they do not develop any symptoms."


Four people in Oregon have tested positive for the coronavirus after receiving both doses of the Covid-19 vaccine, health officials said.

There are two cases each in Yamhill and Lane counties, the state's Health Authority said in a series of tweets on Friday. The cases are either mild or asymptomatic.

"We are working with our local and federal public health partners to investigate and determine case origin," the agency said. "Genome sequencing is underway, and we expect results next week."

The agency referred to the individuals who tested positive as "breakthrough cases," meaning that they got sick with the virus at least 14 days after receiving both doses.

The Health Authority said more breakthrough cases could pop up.

"Clinical trials of both vaccines presently in use included breakthrough cases. In those cases, even though the participants got Covid, the vaccines reduced the severity of illness," the agency said in a tweet.

"Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a Covid-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get the virus. ... Getting as many Oregonians as possible vaccinated remains a critical objective to ending the pandemic."

The agency's announcement came the same day its health officer said there has been a decline of daily Covid-19 cases over the past several weeks. As of Friday, there were 149,576 cases in the state, according to the department's count.

"These decreases are a testament to the actions all Oregonians are taking to slow the spread of Covid-19 and the sacrifices made – thank you," health officer Dean Sidelinger said at a news conference Friday.

Another breakthrough case was reported in North Carolina, according to NBC affiliate WCNC-TV in Charlotte. The state's Department of Health and Human Services told the outlet that the person had mild symptoms and did not need to be hospitalized.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said that quarantining is not necessary for fully vaccinated people within three months of having received their last doses as long as they do not develop any symptoms.

They do, however, still need to practice certain safety measures such as wearing face masks, social distancing, and avoiding crowds or poorly ventilated spaces.

"Fully vaccinated" means at least two weeks have passed since a person has completed their vaccination series.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1257886
 

The vaccines are not 100% but what they do is make the odds of getting seriously sick or hospitalized very slim ..so getting the virus may be no worse than getting a cold.

that is where the vaccines value is , not in stopping the virus 100% but in making it no worse than the symptoms of a cold or even having no symptoms at all if you do get it
 

The vaccines are not 100% but what they do is make the odds of getting seriously sick or hospitalized very slim ..so getting the virus may be no worse than getting a cold.

that is where the vaccines value is , not in stopping the virus 100% but in making it no worse than the symptoms of a cold or even having no symptoms at all if you do get it
True but....
Pre vaccination we're told to quarantine even if asymptomatic. Also if vaccinated you can still spread the virus. But now if vaccinated no need to quarantine?

My point is people should still quarantine if vaccinated if the test positive. Other wise they can still spread it.
It makes no sense to me that its A-OK to possibly spread it just because you have been vaccinated.
 
One part that I don't understand is the claim that:

"Clinical trials of both vaccines presently in use included breakthrough cases. In those cases, even though the participants got Covid, the vaccines reduced the severity of illness," the agency said in a tweet.

How can we know that the severity of the illness in certain cases was reduced by the vaccines of the people being referred to had not previously had the COVID illness? In other words, do they have before and after comparisons or are they just making the claim because the vaccine was administered?

We know that among those who do get sick, there is quite a wide variance as to how severe the symptoms are, ranging from none at all to death and everything in between. So what was the comparison in the people referred to here to be able to say the symptoms were reduced by the vaccine?

It seems to me that in any experiment, there needs to be a "control" thing and the thing under test in order to obtain anything conclusive. In this case, the "control" thing would be a person who got sick from the virus before being vaccinated, and the thing under test would be the SAME person getting again sick from the virus so that there could be an "apples to apples" comparison to say that the vaccine possibly reduced the symptoms. But even then, how do we know that such a person didn't have reduced symptoms because the body had learned a thing or two from having been through fighting the virus already?

In other words, there are too many variables, in my opinion, to be able to make the claim that the virus reduced the symptoms of those who still did get sick from the virus.

Also, isn't the vaccine injecting controlled amounts of the virus small enough to not get the person too sick, into the body so that the body learns to recognize the virus and deal with it? If so, why would we not expect those vaccinated to test positive for the virus at least for some period of time after getting the vaccine?

Last issue for me... If a person can still get and carry the virus, even if s/he doesn't get symptoms anymore after the vaccine is administered, couldn't that person still pass it on to those who have not been vaccinated? If that is the case, then I would think that until every single person in the country (or world) has been vaccinated, mask wearing would be required since the mask is intended to prevent passing the virus on to others. In other words, such a vaccinated person could now pose a serious threat to vulnerable, unvaccinated people because s/he wouldn't know that s/he is carrying the virus if the virus can no longer make that person sick.

A big deal was made about kids when it was believed they didn't get sick (or at least they didn't die from the vaccine), that they should still social distance and wear masks because they would unknowingly pass the virus on to those who are vulnerable. We know better now that anyone can get sick and possibly die from the virus, but the point about the masks would still hold.

I am probably missing some important information in asking these questions, because these seem too basic and obvious for medical practitioners and researchers to have not already been seen and answered many times over.

Tony
 
"Clinical trials of both vaccines presently in use included breakthrough cases. In those cases, even though the participants got Covid, the vaccines reduced the severity of illness," the agency said in a tweet.

"Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a Covid-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get the virus. ... Getting as many Oregonians as possible vaccinated remains a critical objective to ending the pandemic."
It's doing what it's supposed to do. Keep people from becoming seriously ill or dying.
 
"We know that among those who do get sick, there is quite a wide variance as to how severe the symptoms are, ranging from none at all to death and everything in between. So what was the comparison in the people referred to here to be able to say the symptoms were reduced by the vaccine?"

Excellent point. The trial period didn't even give enough time to make such a determination.


"Also, isn't the vaccine injecting controlled amounts of the virus small enough to not get the person too sick, into the body so that the body learns to recognize the virus and deal with it? If so, why would we not expect those vaccinated to test positive for the virus at least for some period of time after getting the vaccine?"

No the vaccines does not have any amount of the Covid virus virus in it.

"In other words, such a vaccinated person could now pose a serious threat to vulnerable, unvaccinated people because s/he wouldn't know that s/he is carrying the virus if the virus can no longer make that person sick."

Exactly.


"I am probably missing some important information in asking these questions, because these seem too basic and obvious for medical practitioners and researchers to have not already been seen and answered many times over."

I'm sure they have been asked many times, the problem is they give no answer.
 
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It's doing what it's supposed to do. Keep people from becoming seriously ill or dying.
Yes I agree, but if a vaccinated person can still spread the virus then it's still a threat to others.

So the logical solution from those pushing the vaccine would be, you have to get vaccinated to be safe. Ok, now what about those with health issues that cannot be vaccinated? Do they now have to live isolated the rest of their lives?
 
Thanks @Becky1951 and @StarSong. This is what we need when discussing COVID-19 - people to state what they think they know, leave room for correction as I did in my post, and then get responses from those who are more knowledgeable on the subject. My post was posing a number of questions, based on what I THINK I understand from what I have read and heard, and therefore invites corrections and new, correct information. Hopefully, this thread will continue in this manner and we can all learn from each other.

Tony
 
Thanks @Becky1951 and @StarSong. This is what we need when discussing COVID-19 - people to state what they think they know, leave room for correction as I did in my post, and then get responses from those who are more knowledgeable on the subject. My post was posing a number of questions, based on what I THINK I understand from what I have read and heard, and therefore invites corrections and new, correct information. Hopefully, this thread will continue in this manner and we can all learn from each other.

Tony
I don't consider myself more knowledgeable. I'm just inquisitive and pick things apart to try and get a better understanding if possible, which leads to unanswered questions
that I ask or comment on.
 
I don't consider myself more knowledgeable. I'm just inquisitive and pick things apart to try and get a better understanding if possible, which leads to unanswered questions
that I ask or comment on.
Since I have more than 20 years experience as a software engineer, there are SOME (definitely not all) things in technology areas that I feel I know something about.

On the internet, we never know who people really and whether they REALLY know what they are talking about. Keeping that in mind, I try (maybe overly so) to carefully state when I do actually know something and why, and when I have an unsupported opinion, when I have read something and am simply repeating it, etc.

Here in this forum, since it is pretty much for seniors helping each other and sharing experiences, I want to trust that other people are being as transparent, so I feel that when, as in this thread, somebody posts with some degree of certainty (i.e. no caveats such as "I think...", "I believe...", "I read, but don't know for sure...", as my posts will often say), that the person has some sort of expertise that allows them in good conscience to state something as fact. So I am here, in part to socialize, and in part to learn from those more knowledgeable than I am in their respective areas of expertise. This is a good thread in which to do that, since I believe we do have people here with a medical background of one kind or another.

Edit: Regarding how the COVID vaccines work, I did find this on the CDC site:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html

It does not contradict what has been said by @StarSong or @Becky1951, so there is some evidence that these two know what they are talking about. :)

Tony
 


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