Gender Change!

[fuzzybuddy]

Most don't understand gender dysmorphia. They look at an individual and see 'parts" so you're a male, etc. But your 'parts' don't tell you what you are (M/F). It is what is imprinted in your brain before you're born. If your parts and imprinting match, you're normal. If they don't, what's in your head is determines how you think of yourself (M/F). Your "parts" don't think, your brain does all the thinking. So, people with this think they have the wrong parts, and they bitterly hate the ones they have. This condition is not a whim or some kind of attention lark, It goes to the person's core beliefs in himself, it's who he is, how he's going to lead his life. This problem usually starts occurring when they are 3 or4. They walk in, and tell their parents, "I'm not a girl, I'm a boy. Start calling me "Chuck". There is a problem when they get older into their teens. Since they are both, what (M/F) kind of life will they lead. This an extremely devastating condition, usually with hospitalizations, and suicide is never off the table.

 

[Disgustedman]

I’m not talking about rights. I did not say “you have no right”. Re-read what I said.

"Just don't" is pretty clear.

I also didn’t insist you NOT have an opinion. I was careful with my wording.

"Just don't" sounds pretty clear

I pointed out that if you’d never been up close with gender dysmorphia, if you’d never personally watched, seen, talked to someone struggling with this, interacted with them or their loved ones, then your BASIS for having an opinion is probably flawed, likely the result of propaganda, bias or misinformation.

Big difference between what I said and what you .

My basis is what I have seen, heard. Just because I've never (AFAIK) been close to any still doesn't preclude a opinion.

 

[oldaunt]

Back in the 80's, I had a good friend who was a father to 3 children. He decided he needed to transition and went through a lot of misery to do it. A couple years later, he discovered she really hadn't changed who she was, just her sex. She wasn't happier, or a better person; life didn't become all roses. She killed herself. I have felt bad about not trying to talk her out of it all these years. This is what happens to far to many of these people, say a lot of studies. PLEASE don't do it to the children.

 

[MarkD]

I don’t personally understand gender bending any more than I understand the desire for same sex coupling or religious affiliation. But I’m inclined to accept what people tell me about themselves and do not set myself up as the gold standard for what a person should be. So I accept that transgender, homosexuality and god belief are all part of the human experience, just not this human’s experience.

 

[SeaBreeze]

I’m not talking about rights. I did not say “you have no right”. Re-read what I said.

I also didn’t insist you NOT have an opinion. I was careful with my wording.

I pointed out that if you’d never been up close with gender dysmorphia, if you’d never personally watched, seen, talked to someone struggling with this, interacted with them or their loved ones, then your BASIS for having an opinion is probably flawed, likely the result of propaganda, bias or misinformation.

Big difference between what I said and what you said.

I understood what you were saying.

 

[Alligatorob]

Well, I can't really say a thing as I have not experienced it.

I understand that feeling.

I find myself uncomfortable with the concept, but when I have actually met a couple of these folks I find it much easier to accept. They seem to me to be nice, normal people.

 

[Lilac]

If a child comes to a teacher and says they feel they’re gay, the school is obligated to keep it quiet. They support the child; they can provide materials or counselling or whatever the child wants. The parents don’t have to be informed. If they’re considering transitioning, the school and teachers would and should be required to keep it quiet too.

What has happened to the rights of the parents? Parents are responsible, financially & legally, for raising their children until adulthood.

All parents have the right to know what happens to their children while attending school from arrival & until they go home.
All parents have the right to know everything that their children are being taught in school.
All parents have the right to approve or disapprove the school curriculum in their local school district.
All parents have the right to know if their children have any type of medical/psychological problems that have occurred while at school.

The schools responsibility is not to hide anything from the parents.
The schools responsibility is to keep children safe from harm, both physically & mentally, while at school.
The schools responsibility is to teach children reading, writing, math, science, language, geography, etc.
The schools responsibility is to notify the parents whenever there is any type of a problem with their children & not to hide it from them.

I'm curious where it is written that the school/teachers (should & would be required to keep it quiet) are obligated to supersede the legal custodian of any child?

 

[Remy]

@Lilac While I agree with much of what you say. Please do realize that there are parents who are not safe for their children. I had to learn this at barely 8 years old. Right before school year started, I ate the pavement with my face falling off my bike. Road burned and one eye blew completely red. I was teased. And it was just teasing. Because I was being abused in the household, I didn't know how to handle it and I told my mother. She came to the school grounds and made such an insane scene (typical borderline behavior, it was actually all about her) she grabbed a kid by the arm. After that I was humiliated about my mother. Teasing turned to full on bullying and I never told her about the torture I endured in school again. Once in high school a teacher wanted me to go to the front office to report these two girls who were tormenting me in class. I flat refused. I'd learned my lesson years ago. At 8 was also when I started a life long issue with my weight. I had nothing at school or in that house. I started comforting myself with food. I was only a child. No one cared. Even my oldest brother berated me about my weight.

 

[Blessed]

@Lilac While I agree with much of what you say. Please do realize that there are parents who are not safe for their children. I had to learn this at barely 8 years old. Right before school year started, I ate the pavement with my face falling off my bike. Road burned and one eye blew completely red. I was teased. And it was just teasing. Because I was being abused in the household, I didn't know how to handle it and I told my mother. She came to the school grounds and made such an insane scene (typical borderline behavior, it was actually all about her) she grabbed a kid by the arm. After that I was humiliated about my mother. Teasing turned to full on bullying and I never told her about the torture I endured in school again. Once in high school a teacher wanted me to go to the front office to report these two girls who were tormenting me in class. I flat refused. I'd learned my lesson years ago. At 8 was also when I started a life long issue with my weight. I had nothing at school or in that house. I started comforting myself with food. I was only a child. No one cared. Even my oldest brother berated me about my weight.

I am sorry you went through such torment. I just replied to another thread, what would you do if your child would not go to school. I answered honestly, I would say I would take his place, someone has to fill his seat. I really would, yes, he would be embarrassed but just the thought would have him up and out the door. I always told him, you skip school, I will take off work for however long it takes to sit beside him in class. We never had the problem, he loved school, started AP classes in elementary school. A teenager is a teenager, you have to warn them what will happen if they make a bad choice, you will only have to do it one time, if needed. I guess we got lucky, I never had to go to class LOL

 

[SeaBreeze]

If a child comes to a teacher and says they feel they’re gay, the school is obligated to keep it quiet. They support the child; they can provide materials or counselling or whatever the child wants. The parents don’t have to be informed. If they’re considering transitioning, the school and teachers would and should be required to keep it quiet too.

I didn't know that for sure, but it certainly makes sense. If a child feels unsafe at home if they tell a parent that they have these feelings. Many times it's a school counselor that the child can confide in and open up to. They can get support from them that they may not get at home. Kids that have nobody to talk to about these types of things, sometimes end up committing suicide. Ideally, the child could open up to the parents, but realistically that's not always a good thing, the child may be beaten or abused by an angry father with a closed mind.

 

[SeaBreeze]

What has happened to the rights of the parents? Parents are responsible, financially & legally, for raising their children until adulthood.

All parents have the right to know what happens to their children while attending school from arrival & until they go home.
All parents have the right to know everything that their children are being taught in school.
All parents have the right to approve or disapprove the school curriculum in their local school district.
All parents have the right to know if their children have any type of medical/psychological problems that have occurred while at school.

The schools responsibility is not to hide anything from the parents.
The schools responsibility is to keep children safe from harm, both physically & mentally, while at school.
The schools responsibility is to teach children reading, writing, math, science, language, geography, etc.
The schools responsibility is to notify the parents whenever there is any type of a problem with their children & not to hide it from them.

I'm curious where it is written that the school/teachers (should & would be required to keep it quiet) are obligated to supersede the legal custodian of any child?

I believe she was talking about a school counselor, someone a child can go to with any troubling problem that can't be discussed with the parents, sometimes the parents are the cause of the emotional/physical turmoil. I think if the child mentioned something to the teacher first, he/she would be directed to the school counselor. I don't think Jules was talking about teaching the child anything suspect. I think you are overly defensive here.

 

[Murrmurr]

This is something that I don't understand, the why, not the how-to.

Whose idea is/was it, I have never heard such rubbish, (to me), in my
life, in the past some strange man would have his bits chopped off, I
knew of one, in Gloucester, after many years, he went crazy, I also
heard that he committed suicide.

Scotland are trying to legalise this for school children, this to me is
another, NO, the age of majority in Scotland is 16, this was created
for the first referendum, to get the S.N.P. more votes, but school
children are exactly that, children.

Maybe this post is in bad taste, but this is something that is happening.

Even the Church of England is having meetings about a gender neutral
name for God.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155792333/god-gender-pronouns-church-of-england

I am the only person who thinks that this is wrong, I heard on the news,
earlier, that a Gender Change Girl/Woman, 16 years old was stabbed to
death yesterday, very sad, especially when the police say that it is not a
hate crime.

I apologise for the bit of a rant and if it is a wrong subject, then delete
it, Matrix.

Mike.

There are over 100 videos (at last tally) made by kids who had gender-reassignment surgery and then changed their minds within a year. They mostly say they made a mistake, it was peer pressure, the therapists were way too encouraging, "I was confused" and "I believe it was just a phase." Most of them were between 14 and 16 when they started on hormones and puberty-inhibitors, and for most, the actual surgery was done only 4 to 6 months later.

 

[Murrmurr]

The parents of a 14-year-old girl who was allowed to secretly change gender at school have accused teachers of making a huge mistake by keeping them in the dark after she was bullied, assaulted in the boys' restroom - and ultimately ran away and into the hands of an abusive online groomer.

Michele and Roger Blair said that their daughter, Sage, was allowed to change her name to Draco and use the boys' restrooms at Appomattox County High School in central Virginia without their permission.

The couple said teachers effectively sidelined them from supporting their daughter, who suffered from depression, during her at-school transition. Ultimately, they only discovered she was trans after finding a hall pass in Draco's name.

'Why they didn't tell me or at least request a parents' meeting to this day is just way beyond my understanding,' said Michele.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ers-let-children-secretly-change-genders.html

It blows my mind that somehow we lost the knowledge that it is totally normal for some kids to go through a period when they question their gender. Mostly girls experience this, but boys do, also, and it's temporary. And normal.

 

[George1959]

This reminds me of a book I read many years ago.It is titled As Nature Made him: The boy who was raised as a girl. It follows the true story of a set of twin boys. Doctor botched the circumcision of one of them....and made the decision to change his gender and have his parents raise him as a girl. Unkown to him or his brother. I forget how he found out..but decided to change BACK to a male. If memory serves, it affected him so badly, he could not adjust and committed suicide

View attachment 268421

I own the book. It was published in 2000, but the story went on. Both brothers committed suicide . His brother Brian in 2002 and Bruce (who later called himself David) in 2004.
Here is the whole very tragic story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
Dr John Money's belief was that being a boy or a girl is not primarily the result of biology (sex) but of society and education (gender). But David Reimer never felt at ease as a girl, much less being happy. He refused to wear skirts and dresses and even peed standing upright. His father told him the whole story when 'Brenda' was 14.
The case of Bruce Reimer also lead to a controversy between Money and Dr Milton Diamond. For Diamond the sexual identity is primarily the result of the chromosomes and the hormones which in his opinion have not only an impact on the primary and secondary sexual characteristics but also on the brain.

 

[Lavinia]

We are defined by our bodies not our minds. That is a fact, like it or not.
There are two things wrong with what is happening at present.....confusing children about gender is completely irresponsible. Children should be told simply.....'If you feel you have a problem, you can discuss it in confidence with someone trained to help.'....and then leave the subject alone.
The other is that 'trans' people...men who are living as women....are being treated as though they actually ARE women. This is causing problems for real women, and is something which needs to be sorted out.

 

[oldaunt]

We are defined by our bodies not our minds. That is a fact, like it or not.
There are two things wrong with what is happening at present.....confusing children about gender is completely irresponsible. Children should be told simply.....'If you feel you have a problem, you can discuss it in confidence with someone trained to help.'....and then leave the subject alone.
The other is that 'trans' people...men who are living as women....are being treated as though they actually ARE women. This is causing problems for real women, and is something which needs to be sorted out.

If that were true, Stephen Hawking would have been mentally retarded.

 

[JustDave]

Transgenders make up half of one percent of the population in America. Tying knickers in a knot over something that's not your business anyway.

It's rare enough that most people haven't thought about it and can't understand the psychology or the biology involved in it. Throw in humanity's low tolerance for what we don't understand or what falls outside the norm, and it bothers many people. I don't know if it's right, wrong, healthy, or unhealthy, but no transgender person that I know of has ever caused me a bit of harm or offended me. I can't say the same thing about so called "normal" people.

 

[Jamala]

We are defined by our bodies not our minds. That is a fact, like it or not.

No, that is not a fact.
We are not defined by our bodies nor are we defined by our minds. We have both a mind (nonphysical) and body/brain (physical) and they exist as separate entities.

 

[Rose65]

This is something that I don't understand, the why, not the how-to.

Whose idea is/was it, I have never heard such rubbish, (to me), in my
life, in the past some strange man would have his bits chopped off, I
knew of one, in Gloucester, after many years, he went crazy, I also
heard that he committed suicide.

Scotland are trying to legalise this for school children, this to me is
another, NO, the age of majority in Scotland is 16, this was created
for the first referendum, to get the S.N.P. more votes, but school
children are exactly that, children.

Maybe this post is in bad taste, but this is something that is happening.

Even the Church of England is having meetings about a gender neutral
name for God.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155792333/god-gender-pronouns-church-of-england

I am the only person who thinks that this is wrong, I heard on the news,
earlier, that a Gender Change Girl/Woman, 16 years old was stabbed to
death yesterday, very sad, especially when the police say that it is not a
hate crime.

I apologise for the bit of a rant and if it is a wrong subject, then delete
it, Matrix.

Mike.

I tend to agree with you. Seems a lot of fuss about such things when surely there are far more important matters in our world.

 

[George1959]

We are defined by our bodies not our minds. That is a fact, like it or not.
There are two things wrong with what is happening at present.....confusing children about gender is completely irresponsible. Children should be told simply.....'If you feel you have a problem, you can discuss it in confidence with someone trained to help.'....and then leave the subject alone.
The other is that 'trans' people...men who are living as women....are being treated as though they actually ARE women. This is causing problems for real women, and is something which needs to be sorted out.

It's not just that simple. The body defines how we look and what parts we have. But the brain defines our behavior. Both define how we feel. Yes, confusing children, who have no problems with gender dysphoria, is irresponsible. This means no pressure at kindergarten and school in any direction. But as you already wrote, for children with problems there must be counselling.
And yes, there can be (not "there are" for it depends on each case) problems with trans people in sports, locker rooms and in prison. But let me tell you something. I was an avid sauna visitor. One of the saunas I used had only one locker room for both s...s. (I don't write the complete word to avoid censorship as in my post above). Nobody had a problem with it. But if problems arise, there could be seperated cabins for both s...s. I know that female athlets often cannot win over former male athlets who have transitioned. This problem could be solved by a new category. And I also know the case of the prisoner who identifies as female and raped two women in jail. I would let him choose between cellular imprisonment in a jail for women or a prison only for males. With criminals, independent of their s.x, there can be special standards too.

 

[Lilac]

@Lilac While I agree with much of what you say. Please do realize that there are parents who are not safe for their children. I had to learn this at barely 8 years old. Right before school year started, I ate the pavement with my face falling off my bike. Road burned and one eye blew completely red. I was teased. And it was just teasing. Because I was being abused in the household, I didn't know how to handle it and I told my mother. She came to the school grounds and made such an insane scene (typical borderline behavior, it was actually all about her) she grabbed a kid by the arm. After that I was humiliated about my mother. Teasing turned to full on bullying and I never told her about the torture I endured in school again. Once in high school a teacher wanted me to go to the front office to report these two girls who were tormenting me in class. I flat refused. I'd learned my lesson years ago. At 8 was also when I started a life long issue with my weight. I had nothing at school or in that house. I started comforting myself with food. I was only a child. No one cared. Even my oldest brother berated me about my weight.

There are parents who are mentally abusive to their kids. They refuse to support & nurture them, especially when they need it. Other siblings learn this behavior & use it against their borthers & sisters. This is something that should have been reported & you protected. It's sad when this is one time the school kids who bullied you should have been called out by the teachers. I have no answer for what you went through, but can only say it shouldn't have happened . It shouldn't happen to any child.

 

[Lilac]

There is a difference between school personnel infringing upon parental rights & being groomers to impressionable children & parents who are criminally abusive.

Parents who are criminally abusing their children should be reported to local law enforcement for them to handle, not the school. With that being said, any school official who files a report that has been based on that school official personnel beliefs/bias thinking that a child is being "abused" & in turn is misleading the police of the supposed abuse that has not happened, then they need to be investigated.

It's between the parents & the child to seek professional help outside of the school if there is a problem. The only thing the school should be doing is informing the parents of an issue.

School officials who are acting as groomers need to held responsible for their actions. Is there a difference between them & sex offenders?

Pre-k, kindergarten & elementary children should not be exposed to any type of change in their sexual orientation or gender. This is nothing less than child molestation & is an offense that the offender, when convicted, is registered as a sex offender.

Seabreeze, don't think I was not being over defensive. I was simply making a comment as a result of what I've seen posted. A few appear to feel it's totally up to the kid to make these life altering decisions without the parent's knowledge. A few also made it appear the child should be taking the schools advise in this matter & not the parents.

Kids should be allowed to be kids. No one has a right to steal their childhood away from them, but it's being done every day.

 

[Pepper]

It blows my mind that somehow we lost the knowledge that it is totally normal for some kids to go through a period when they question their gender. Mostly girls experience this, but boys do, also, and it's temporary. And normal.

I never questioned my gender, but I questioned why men/boys had all the power. No ***** envy, power envy. Girls my age generally had no expectations. Even college was to find the right boy; even a career was for something 'right' for a female. I wanted to be powerful and have adventures too, which I wound up doing, but as a young girl, a teen girl, I had no ideas that I ever could.

 

[Murrmurr]

I never questioned my gender, but I questioned why men/boys had all the power. No ***** envy, power envy. Girls my age generally had no expectations. Even college was to find the right boy; even a career was for something 'right' for a female. I wanted to be powerful and have adventures too, which I wound up doing, but as a young girl, a teen girl, I had no ideas that I ever could.

But did you think slicing off your breasts and growing a ***** was the solution? Or did you get angry and want to scream at "the bosses" instead?

Most of my dad's sisters and their daughters were activists....well his sisters were, and the ones who had daughters took them with them to rallies and protests and these grassroots meetings and whatever. Like, when one of my girl cousins who's my age was told she couldn't take Woodshop in high school, her mom took her to confront the school principal and then the district school board. Didn't change anything right away, but that cousin's little sister took Woodshop at the same school a few years later and nobody tried to stop her.

Point being, get angry with your daughters and be activists, not patients.

 

[Murrmurr]

We are defined by our bodies not our minds. That is a fact, like it or not.

People worked really hard to change that kind of thinking back in the 60s.

And then the 70s came along and "the industry" regressed our thinking with Teen Glamor Magazine and its glam teen models and Disco, glitter pants, and stupid love songs.