Here's how much the covid-19 stimulus will cost you.

Knight

Well-known Member
A few like me have posted the stimulus for Covid would eventually end up increasing taxes to pay for what is being sent out now. This article projects the increase.

Typically some portion of an article is posted. This is a portion.


Kevin A. Hassett
Thu, March 18, 2021, 3:30 AM
With all the trillion-dollar numbers spinning about government policy these days, it’s easy to lose perspective on the scale of recent federal spending. We decided to put the past year’s policy into perspective by calculating the future tax hike that would be necessary to pay the bills rung up since January, 2020. What the average American owes for the stimulus will shock you.

The exercise is not farfetched. Rumors spread throughout Washington last week that the Biden administration is considering tax hikes to pay for COVID-19 relief enacted this year and last. To some extent, it is amazing that the U.S. experienced a 32 percent drop in GDP in the second quarter of last year and did not dive into a depression, and some credit is surely due to those who crafted stimulus bills. On the other hand, the five bills passed to provide relief, once one subtracts out loans that will be repaid, together added $5.3 trillion to the debt that you, dear reader, will have to pay back someday. Think of COVID-19 relief as a new car payment, of course without any delivery of four wheels, an engine, or a chassis. When you see the numbers, you will realize that the comparison is not an exaggeration.

This is not an academic exercise. The thing about debt is that it eventually has to be paid. There is no such thing, annoying economists like us tend to remind too often, as a free lunch. Even if the debt is rolled over ad infinitum, the lunch is not free because taxpayers have to pay higher interest each year to cover the additional borrowing, which crowds out other government services. Milton Friedman famously argued against aggressive stimulus because, he said, taxpayers would look ahead to their future tax hikes and save today to prepare themselves for the worst. Whatever the government tries to do will be futile.

It is possible that lower spending will eventually offset the debt from all this stimulus, but what if, as the Biden team signaled this week, the stimulus bill is paid for with tax hikes? Just to make it personal, wouldn’t you like to know what your tax bill will be for all the stimulus packages, so you can, with your usual rational panache, save in order to finance your new liability just as Friedman suggested all rational people would do?

To find out, we relied on a methodology that was developed by one of us (Jensen) and his coauthor Aspen Gorry in a 2011 article. The idea is that the current distribution of taxes paid is the result of a political process that has evolved in almost Darwinian fashion over time and thus is likely to persist. Tax hikes come and go, but the basic distribution of taxes paid varies much less than you might think, with the wealthiest paying the vast majority of taxes under both Republican and Democratic administrations. It is highly unlikely that a bill as high as $5.3 trillion will be distributed differently from today’s taxes. The richest of the rich simply don’t have that much money. Once we accept that assumption that the future tax hike will be distributed according to today’s distribution of taxes, we can estimate the tax bill for each income level.

How are taxes distributed? According to calculations based on the Tax-Brain software available at PSLmodels.org we found that in 2020, individuals with incomes below $75,000 paid about 12 percent of total taxes, while those with incomes between $75,000 and $200,000 paid about 34 percent of taxes, and those with incomes above that paid the rest.

Assuming that pattern holds, the attached chart shows how a future tax bill associated with COVID-19 relief would be distributed. Even with the high progressivity of the current tax code, the bills are extraordinary. For those with incomes between $30,000 and $40,000, the tax hike needed today to pay for the combined stimulus packages would be about $5,000. Those with incomes between $40,000 and $50,000 would pay about $9,000, while those earning between $50,000 and $75,000 would have to fork over $16,000. That rises to $27,000 for incomes between $75,000 and $100,000, and $51,000 for incomes between $100,000 and $200,000. For higher earners, the bills climb so fast that they jump off the chart. The average for Americans with incomes between $500,000 and $1 million is $304,000. A typical American family, with $88,000 of income, faces a bill near $27,000.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/much-covid-19-stimulus-cost-103013941.html

Probably better to read the entire article to get an understanding of what the article author's credentials are & consider the impact.
 

Well I'm not the best one to reply because I am not fond of economics and I tried to read the article at the link but it was just too jargon-y.
But, I know there are two sides to this because we lived thru the Great Recession. From what little I have read, the stimulus during the 2007-2009 recession was too small to be effective. Supposedly the negatives of doing too big a stimulus is less than the negative of doing too little. I vaguely remember getting maybe $300 stimulus during the 2007-2009 recession and frankly that amount was laughable.
I knew people during the 2007-2009 recession that lost good paying jobs, couldn't make their house payments, housing price dropped too low to pay off the mortgage when selling the house and so then they were out all their equity, out of income, and naturally not paying any income tax.
I myself lost my job for a year and a half during the Great Recession. I had some months of severence pay, but I lost out on at least 14 months of income, wiped out my emergency funds, and uncle sam lost out on all the taxes I would have paid during that time, plus property values dropped so the state/local also lost some property tax dollars. Even after jobs came back, for a while they weren't paying as high, so I lost more $$ from that, and Uncle Sam didn't get as much either. I have coworkers now that are having to work late in life because their retirement money got wiped out by that recession.
If the stimulus package last year and this year successfully prevents a big recession that is worth a lot more $$ than the cost of the stimulus, which is the whole point of them doing a stimulus I think.
 
The article didn't mention other tax revenue, though: social insurance taxes (the second-largest tax resource at about 25%), consumption taxes, property taxes, and corporate income taxes. I believe individual income taxes pay about 40% percent of total tax revenue (federal, state, and local).
Of course, people need to work and business need to open for any of the numbers to matter.
 

There is No Free Lunch. When the government, or an individual, runs up debt, it either has to be paid back, or the eventual result is Bankruptcy. Our government ran up a massive debt during WWII, and raised taxes to as high as 92% in the late 40's/early 50's, and paid it off....resulting in the US economy doing great for the rest of the 20th century. Today, Washington spends endlessly, with No plans to pay the debt. Our leaders need to review what has happened in Argentina, and Greece, in recent years, when their governments did the same.

If some sense of fiscal responsibility isn't practiced in the not too distant future, we may be faced with a major devaluation of the dollar, and if that happens, the costs of everything, for the consumers, will skyrocket. Gas=$10/gal, loaf of bread=$10, dozen eggs=$12, electric bill=$600/mo., new economy car=$65,000, and on, and on.

These stimulus packages may seem nice, today....but they could be a contributing factor to the economic collapse that Will occur in the future, IF our government doesn't begin to exhibit some Common Sense.
 
Talk about tax increase just for the stimulus, we must not forget about the people coming over the boarder by the thousands now. Most of them not Covid tested and some tested positive for Covid and still allowed to travel. They will be getting Welfare, Food Stamps, Housing, Free Medical and more. Us tax payers will be paying for the stimulus and for the people coming over the boarder. I see in the very near future that taxes will sky rocket for all working people and the retiree's. :(
 
The stimulus isn't the only contribution to the debt & deficit but it is going to drive up the deficit. As Don M explained there is no free lunch & ProTruckDriver mentioned there are other factors impacting the economy that take taxes to pay for. Yes for sure getting money from the federal government is nice. But the debt & deficit have increased & will have to be paid & that comes from taxes.

Jobs being replaced by robotics has been overlooked as a source of taxes gone forever. Unless the government finds some way to tax robots.
 
Think of how much the tax cuts for the wealthy cost us.

"By 2023, the tax law’s positive effect on economic growth will fade away entirely."
https://budget.house.gov/publicatio...p-tax-law-contributes-darkening-fiscal-future

And, as long as there is such a term as corporate welfare, I'm certainly not going to complain about stimulus money that might keep people from being evicted from their homes and might improve the nutrition for growing children. If we don't rescue these people now, we will have to support and treat them later. And that could cost even more than stimulus.

Corporate Welfare: Beyond the Budgetary Cost https://www.mercatus.org/publications/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-beyond-budgetary-cost

As long as people put this money back into the economy, it will also rescue our economy. I'm using mine to put a new roof on my house. That will put money into the places that make and sell the material needed. It will put money into the pockets of the workers, who will then spend it on food, rent, and goods they need.
 
Think of how much the tax cuts for the wealthy cost us.

"By 2023, the tax law’s positive effect on economic growth will fade away entirely."
https://budget.house.gov/publicatio...p-tax-law-contributes-darkening-fiscal-future

And, as long as there is such a term as corporate welfare, I'm certainly not going to complain about stimulus money that might keep people from being evicted from their homes and might improve the nutrition for growing children. If we don't rescue these people now, we will have to support and treat them later. And that could cost even more than stimulus.

Corporate Welfare: Beyond the Budgetary Cost https://www.mercatus.org/publications/corporate-welfare/corporate-welfare-beyond-budgetary-cost

As long as people put this money back into the economy, it will also rescue our economy. I'm using mine to put a new roof on my house. That will put money into the places that make and sell the material needed. It will put money into the pockets of the workers, who will then spend it on food, rent, and goods they need.
Here's the prez's tax plan as of a couple days ago. Don't think many of us have objection to the ultra-wealthy paying their fair share, so we'll see, huh:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22336892/joe-biden-tax-hike
 
Here's the prez's tax plan as of a couple days ago. Don't think many of us have objection to the ultra-wealthy paying their fair share, so we'll see, huh:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22336892/joe-biden-tax-hike
From the article:

"Now the White House and the president have started talking about his tax plan once again. When asked by ABC News’s George Stephanopoulos whether he’d be raising taxes in a recent interview, Biden’s answer was a matter-of-fact yes. “Anybody making more than $400,000 will see a small to a significant tax increase,” he said, emphasizing that anyone making less than that won’t see “one single penny” in additional federal taxes.

The politics aren’t going to be easy: It’s unlikely Biden will get any Republicans to go along with tax increases to fund an infrastructure bill (though it’s unclear if he’d get Republican votes on an infrastructure bill without taxes, either).

Some moderate Democrats might balk at the idea of tax increases, too. And some economists might question the idea of raising taxes as the economy recovers from a significant crisis. Still, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), perhaps the most powerful moderate in the Senate, has said he’s on board with tax increases to pay for an infrastructure and climate bill."
 
If you took all US billionaire’s money it would cover about 8% of where the US national debt was before the first stimulus package proposal. Does that mean we shouldn’t take the stimulus checks? No. It means we should be absolutely disgusted that trillions of tax dollars are spent wastefully every year.
 
There is No Free Lunch. When the government, or an individual, runs up debt, it either has to be paid back, or the eventual result is Bankruptcy. Our government ran up a massive debt during WWII, and raised taxes to as high as 92% in the late 40's/early 50's, and paid it off....resulting in the US economy doing great for the rest of the 20th century. Today, Washington spends endlessly, with No plans to pay the debt. Our leaders need to review what has happened in Argentina, and Greece, in recent years, when their governments did the same.

If some sense of fiscal responsibility isn't practiced in the not too distant future, we may be faced with a major devaluation of the dollar, and if that happens, the costs of everything, for the consumers, will skyrocket. Gas=$10/gal, loaf of bread=$10, dozen eggs=$12, electric bill=$600/mo., new economy car=$65,000, and on, and on.

These stimulus packages may seem nice, today....but they could be a contributing factor to the economic collapse that Will occur in the future, IF our government doesn't begin to exhibit some Common Sense.
HA! Same deal here in Canada. Everyone seems to be happy with the "free" money. The streets are full everyday with people shopping. House prices are sky rocketing. The day of judgement is coming. Read this morning where 2/3 of the young people are almost declaring bankruptacy. Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats. Go figure!
 
If you took all US billionaire’s money it would cover about 8% of where the US national debt was before the first stimulus package proposal. Does that mean we shouldn’t take the stimulus checks? No. It means we should be absolutely disgusted that trillions of tax dollars are spent wastefully every year.
Our country needs to stop subsidizing large, highly profitable corporations with extraordinary tax breaks. Oil companies and Amazon come immediately to mind.
 
HA! Same deal here in Canada. Everyone seems to be happy with the "free" money. The streets are full everyday with people shopping. House prices are sky rocketing. The day of judgement is coming. Read this morning where 2/3 of the young people are almost declaring bankruptacy. Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats. Go figure!
I fear the current economic bubble is going to burst in a very ugly way.
 
IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.

IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.

After we eat the rich what then?

Go after each other?
 
Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats.
But this is exactly what will stimulate the economy, it is desirable and good, this is why they are holding interest rates down. The spending will increase the economy, then the interest rates will be raised to avoid too much stimulation or inflation. It is a constant balancing act. Ideally the steering is done so subtly we don't swerve back and forth in the road, but sometimes something happens (like a global pandemic) that heads us sharply in one direction (recession) then the steering may feel scary to us as they pull sharply back in the other direction (inflation). But we just have to trust that they will steady the steering back to a balanced position as soon as they feel we've avoided running off the road in the recession direction.
 
IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.

IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.

After we eat the rich what then?

Go after each other?
"Kill my landlord"
Eddie Murphy
 
IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.

IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.

After we eat the rich what then?

Go after each other?
If it actually came to that . . . I suppose so. Let's hope not.
 
IMO it’s tempting to go after the rich but we would all be better off if we learned to be self sufficient and expect as little as possible from the government.

IMO we all need to pay our share if we expect to have a voice in our future as a nation.

After we eat the rich what then?

Go after each other?
Part of one of my posts included the caveat of "those that pay federal taxes" . Once as you point out that eating the rich does all it can there is only one option.

I don't expect taxes to increase for those that pay federal taxes to begin this year mainly because politicians are good at delaying facing reality. But at some point in the not to distant future reality will catch up. IMO a VAT might be part of the solution to begin closing the deficit on the mounting debt.
 
I don't expect taxes to increase for those that pay federal taxes to begin this year mainly because politicians are good at delaying facing reality. But at some point in the not to distant future reality will catch up. IMO a VAT might be part of the solution to begin closing the deficit on the mounting debt.

Exactly! One way or another, this government is going to have to begin to balance the budget.....and a VAT, much like many other nations use, is the Most Likely Option. Here's a list of the nations already doing so, and the rates they charge.....15 to 20% seems to be the norm...

https://www.uscib.org/value-added-tax-rates-vat-by-country/

Start saving now, as it is only a question of time before Everything we buy goes up in price....
 
HA! Same deal here in Canada. Everyone seems to be happy with the "free" money. The streets are full everyday with people shopping. House prices are sky rocketing. The day of judgement is coming. Read this morning where 2/3 of the young people are almost declaring bankruptacy. Yet, there are many happy people here using the almost free loans from the banks; buying up new vehicles, upgrading homes & all sorts of toys like ATV. snowmobiles and those "lovely" pontoon boats. Go figure!
Did Canadians get a lot of stimulus bucks?
 
Did Canadians get a lot of stimulus bucks?
Actually yes! Some, but not all, got $2,000/month for so many months. They were so happy and "living off the proverbial hog" until they found out that this money is taxable. My brother who lives in a tourist town said he never saw so many "city slickers" buying lumber for their cottages. Always in amount of $2,000. Me, I'm retired so no "government gifts" for me but hey, they can't fire me and I don't own anything to anyone. Isn't that nice?
 


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