How H5N1 avian flu went global — and what scientists are bracing for next

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H5N1 Mutations Detected in Canadian Case Favor Human Transmission
 

If we ever have another pandemic. Let's hope it doesn't take any lives. And we have leaders here and around the world, who will take it seriously and plead with their people to take the proper precautions. A leader of a country should always put the welfare of his/her people above their own personal interests.

If a virulent pandemic comes again, a lot of people will die. All the deniers for one.
 
Oh like the last one. The numbers show the opposite, but good try. We are all still here!

No, we're not "all here" from the last time. In fact we lost 7m souls globally to Covid-19. Some, believe it or not, were deniers.

That said, I did state a "virulent virus", meaning worse in effect than Covid 19.

Plague, back in ye olde days, killed within a week of infection. The death rate was 60% to 90%. A comparable virus is going to wipe out a lot of people, and deniers and vaccine shy will be among them. But still, I'm sincerely open to an idea of how they would survive.
 
No, we're not "all here" from the last time. In fact we lost 7m souls globally to Covid-19. Some, believe it or not, were deniers.

That said, I did state a "virulent virus", meaning worse in effect than Covid 19.
Yeah, the majority of the 'deniers' as you call us, are still here. The stats are there, look them up. 94-97 percent over 69 years old. 98 percent of all deaths regardless of age had 1 or more comorbidity. We all who questioned it, and refused it, are still here alive and kicking-with no vax related diseases, unlike millions of others.

Sorry to say but the world took out the weak. The strongest survive. Natural evolution. Most as the stats show had multiple issues, like diabetes, obesity, etc. So if you don't take care of yourself, you pay the price. Not my rules, its nature.
 
Yeah, the majority of the 'deniers' as you call us, are still here. The stats are there, look them up. 94-97 percent over 69 years old. 98 percent of all deaths regardless of age had 1 or more comorbidity. We all who questioned it, and refused it, are still here alive and kicking-with no vax related diseases, unlike millions of others.

Sorry to say but the world took out the weak. The strongest survive. Natural evolution. Most as the stats show had multiple issues, like diabetes, obesity, etc. So if you don't take care of yourself, you pay the price. Not my rules, its nature.

Wow, I was accused of making a "remark [that] is vicious and uncalled for" - and you post "Sorry to say but the world took out the weak. The strongest survive. Natural evolution." :D

Fair play.

But again, you're not replying to what I wrote. I addressed "a more virulent virus", not Covid 19. Still, weak or not, a life is a life, and I don't know how anyone can just write off 7m human beings as you seem to do. But hey, you do you. Thank goodness, Covid-19 was not worse than it eventually turned out to be. Where did you get the stat about how many deniers survived? NOTE: I'm not really interested in Covid-19 - all that needs saying about that has been said already.

Now, if there was an epidemic of the nature of the Plague, denial has little to do with it. You might get lucky, but the odds would be stacked against you.
 
How so? How do you think deniers, and those who refuse vaccines, are going to fair if a virulent virus arrives and spreads throughout the globe? How are they going to prevent themselves from dying?
By staying healthy, good diet, exercise. Thats how we will survive. If it takes out those that exercise diligently, eat right-no processed or quick foods, take supplements-vitamins and minerals, and are above average healthy, then the rest of the world are done for.
Cause less than 15 percent of people commit to regular exercise. Less than 10 percent commit to strenuous exercise, and around 4-5 percent stress their body beyond what is normal.
So while walking is of course good for you, it does nothing for you. The 4-5 percent that swim laps or ocean swim, run 5-10k, gym 4-5 days a week, bike (whatever is a good range for cyclists-I dont do much so cant speak to that), basically if you dont sweat or feel it, its not going to do much.
Today I ran 15 min uphill on a treadmill (winter here in EU) at 5.5 degree incline at 8.9 speed. Then I did low back and abs. Do you think in my 50's I'd rather sit on my balcony with a coffee and watch the world go by? Of course I would. But I value my health and my body, so I get up, sore or not, nagging military injuries aside, and keep going.

When it comes to diet, less than 17 percent eat even close to what is right. Under 10 percent eat what is deemed excellent.
We eat xlean red meat, eggs, bananas, rice, many diff veggies, etc. No fast food ever, no quick food, no processed food. If my wife didn't make it we dont eat it. Again, you don't think we like to go out for a pizza? Of course, but again we value our health. My wife has been to the doctor once in 7 years, and that was for a minor knee injury from exercise. I have been to a doc 1 or 2 times in the last 7 or 8 years. 1 injured knuckle and a strained abductor-both from going too hard in martial arts training. We dont get sick with anything.

Then when it comes to vitamins and supplementation...yes many take a multi or some other pill that makes them feel good. But unless you know what your body needs, and take what you need and a tad more, how does the body heal, grow, build, and support a strong immune system?
Eg; we take daily-Lugols Iodine, Bee Pollen, A, multi B, C, D3, E, Iron, Copper, Selenium, Zinc, Quercetin, NAC, Potassium and Magnesium. Doses are taken with vits that complement each other and spread out through the day. Magnesium, C, D3, Zinc, Quercetin 2 x a day.

So, if some kind of virulent sickness is going to take out people that take our health and diet as seriously as we do, as focused as we do, then what happens to the 85 percent that don't?
If it takes out those that exercise diligently, eat right-no processed or quick foods, take supplements-vitamins and minerals, and are above average healthy, then the rest of the world are done for.
No vaccine will save you.
 
Wow, I was accused of making a "remark [that] is vicious and uncalled for" - and you post "Sorry to say but the world took out the weak. The strongest survive. Natural evolution." :D

Fair play.

But again, you're not replying to what I wrote. I addressed "a more virulent virus", not Covid 19. Still, weak or not, a life is a life, and I don't know how anyone can just write off 7m human beings as you seem to do. But hey, you do you. Thank goodness, Covid-19 was not worse than it eventually turned out to be. Where did you get the stat about how many deniers survived? NOTE: I'm not really interested in Covid-19 - all that needs saying about that has been said already.

Now, if there was an epidemic of the nature of the Plague, denial has little to do with it. You might get lucky, but the odds would be stacked against you.
You are referring to the usa I assume. Ok to be honest 7 million is nothing. What is 7 million out of 365 million or whatever the exact pop is of the usa. No offense to anyone, but I am sure we all read the news stories about a month ago where it said North America has obesity rates never before seen. Diabetes rates off the charts, prescription use reached epic levels.
You have to admit Can and US are health nightmares. The numbers for Can were something ridiculous like 49% obese and another 30 something overweight. 60% pre or full blown diabetic. 75% on meds...like I am sorry but when these people do not value their own life enough to care about themselves, how in the heck would...1) they survive anything?, 2) why would I care about them if they dont care about themselves?
Where is it my duty to care about you? I did my duty along with millions of others protecting our countries. I did my duty for 23 years, and I paid a hefty price. Many injuries, many lost friends both Can, US, UK, Ger, etc. I missed many important dates with my family while I was gone protecting yours. I do not need to babysit anyone.

Then in reference to a new illness. Regardless of what it is, was, going to be...there were always 2 questions I had that no one could answer. 1) If you have a jab, why do you care about me? You are protected. 2) If you are staying away from me, wearing gloves, 2 masks, but I am not, why do you care. Once again you are protected. And if you do both, why do you care? Shouldn't you be safe and secure in your protection bubble?
 
By staying healthy, good diet, exercise. Thats how we will survive.

Yeah, that's not going to work out for all deniers, is it (even you note "When it comes to diet, less than 17 percent eat even close to what is right. Under 10 percent eat what is deemed excellent".) Depending on the characteristics of this fictional virulent virus, I fail to see how that's a solution to the problem. But hey, let's both hope that we never get to find out. Not that it's fatal - of course - but just to point out, we recently had a run of Norovirus in the UK that was traced back to lettuce leaves.

No vaccine will save you.

Yes, vaccines save people - every single day. Smallpox, Polio and Tetanus used to kill or cripple millions of people in the UK - but since we have vaccines, things are far far better. Of course, as long as we have people with the virus, that chances of eradication are lower than they could be.
 
You are referring to the usa I assume. Ok to be honest 7 million is nothing. What is 7 million out of 365 million or whatever the exact pop is of the usa.

No. There were around 7m deaths due to Covid-19 GLOBALLY. The US lost about 1.2m.

Then in reference to a new illness. Regardless of what it is, was, going to be...there were always 2 questions I had that no one could answer. 1) If you have a jab, why do you care about me? You are protected. 2) If you are staying away from me, wearing gloves, 2 masks, but I am not, why do you care. Once again you are protected. And if you do both, why do you care? Shouldn't you be safe and secure in your protection bubble?

I'm going to call an end to my discussion with you on this topic, Tazz. I don't mean to offend, but I truly don't know what to say to someone who shrugs their shoulders at 7m deaths due to a new virus and pandemic. I don't think we have the same values, and I don't see a way to really discuss the issue if a shrug of the shoulders and stating "survival of the fittest" is an adequate response. Again - no offense intended, we just think very differently in the fundamentals of life and its value.

1) In my scenario, you'd likely die, and therefore be of no problem to me at all (the plague killed between 30% to 50% of the European population.

2) Because you can spread the disease by touch, and depending on the nature of the virus, via your breath or other bodily fluids. But then, I believe in community, and a cohesive society that is stronger when it works together. It seems to me you have no interest in any of that. As such, you have the answer here, you simply don't care. :) I'm not sure why I'd need to explain why I care about other people, but hey-ho. People matter.

Still, let's hope we never get to see another plague level event. (y)
 
Medical science has consistently shown that vaccines help protect the public. For those that want to split hairs and quibble, the term "protect" does not imply a 100% guarantee, but simply helps increase the odds(statistically) that one can survive. If a person thinks their immune system is bullet proof, then I say go for it, what happens is on you. I personally had known 4 anti-vaxxers that died from Covid 19 complications.
...but that is just a statistic, so whatever.
 
I have seen hanta virus in action. Something very very scary about a virus that can take down a healthy 17 year old in a matter of hours. Myself? I have a very very healthy respect for what is potentially out there. You have about a 30 percent chance of a rattlesnake bite being “dry”….I still do not want to get bitten.
 
I think we should avoid turning this into (yet another) vaccine/anti-vaccine thread. What I mostly get from these discussions is that some people simply like to roll the dice. The world lost 7m souls to Covid, but at the same time we got lucky - it could have been much much worse.

As I've stated, if a more virulent virus was to come, we should take the lessons learned and apply them. For some that now means not trusting the authorities, and avoiding whatever vaccine is brought to market. For others, we grasp at whatever we need to in order to improve our odds of survival. In the case of a much, much worse epidemic, there won't be as many naysayers out there to debate.

I think we all know the Covid-19 debate up and down, along with the vaccine's effects (I had three shots myself). There's really no need to revisit it again, imo.
 
I think we should avoid turning this into (yet another) vaccine/anti-vaccine thread. What I mostly get from these discussions is that some people simply like to roll the dice. The world lost 7m souls to Covid, but at the same time we got lucky - it could have been much much worse.

As I've stated, if a more virulent virus was to come, we should take the lessons learned and apply them. For some that now means not trusting the authorities, and avoiding whatever vaccine is brought to market. For others, we grasp at whatever we need to in order to improve our odds of survival. In the case of a much, much worse epidemic, there won't be as many naysayers out there to debate.

I think we all know the Covid-19 debate up and down, along with the vaccine's effects (I had three shots myself). There's really no need to revisit it again, imo.
No you are right. The us house committee said everything was done wrong during this last covid period. So did many countries around the world say the same thing.
Also it is well known that no one trusts govts and doctors now.
So why the hell would we trust them the next time around?
As for naysayers not being around, I doubt it. Cause survival of the fittest will really show itself in that one. Most of the naysayers are strong immune system, healthy, fit people. So once again, those that follow along the clearly wrong instructions wont be there to see that.
And I've rolled the dice for 23 years in the military, and with covid, and still here today. Healthy, vibrant.
You see, I value my life. I look at all the information before I make a decision. I learned that from my grandfather, my father and uncle. All critical thinkers. They taught me to think before acting. Resarch before action. When covid came around, I did that. And I, like many others were right. It was nothing. Numbers the same as cold and flu. I knew masks were lies as per my NBC training in the military. I knew that 6 ft rule was laughable, and after reading harvard medical-there is no such thing as asymptomatic-and after realizing that it is a member of the coronavirus family, we made out choice.
Never wore masks, never missed a day at the gym, ate healthy, upped some vitamins, and neither us or our close group of friends got it. So must have been a miracle right? Nope. Just the realization that it was nothing in the first place.

So in regards to the next one-whatever that may be-(funny how scam, er pandemics seems to always happening or talked about) I will see who is affected, their health, their ages, race, symptoms, results, and make our choice on how we react. But I can guarantee you 100 percent that I will not be taking any experimental untested, unproven 'medicine', thats for sure.
 
Also it is well known that no one trusts govts and doctors now.

I trust doctors. 👋

You don't tar all doctors with the same brush.

Sorry, as stated earlier, I won't address the rest. I don't assume the deniers are the fittest among us. But then... well you know....
 
Ok, so just to refer to your 7m globally...out of 8 billion? Really? More people die of smoking and alcohol yearly.
8 Million per year die globally of smoking. 3 Million direct alcohol cause (liver, overconsumption, pancreas), 2.6 secondary deaths (car crashes, falling off bridges, down stairs etc), then 1.6 deaths of people killed by those directly (car crashes, violence etc). So thats 7.3 million.
Where is the outrage? Where is the lockdowns? Where is the testing of people before they go into a mall to see if they have had alcohol to drink? Where is the uproar? No where.
If you can't see that c-19 was a scam then you are blind.
In canada there is about 55k that die from smoking or smoking related issues, and we had 38-46 from c-19 (so they said-using faulty testing). So, no matter what-even if everyone agrees there was a pandemic, a real pandemic, a real virus-still is less than other 'pandemics' we have each and every year. And you know what, these real pandemics are preventable. Ban smoking and alcohol. Govts have that power. If they truly cared about your health, they would. Just doing that we would have almost 15 million more people in this world today than last year. But they dont care. Taxes from cigarettes and alcohol are in the billions in canada, I assume 10x that in the us. So all they care about is money and control.
You know why so many people dont trust govts, is for that reason alone. If their truly cared for you, there would be all organic food (no pesticides, toxic additives) all natural medicines (not drugs with death or cancer as side effects), no alcohol or cigarettes (I mean really?), no obesity (as its related to bad food and toxic ingredients and lifestyle) no pollution, toxic waste dumps, no ddt (I know its gone), no bpa, bht and toxic crap in plastics and food containers, and on and on and on.
The govt cares about itself, and itself only. Control and more control. There are many philosophy books written just on this very topic. I read most of them for my degree, and many more in my own time.
The first thing man must understand...the only one who cares about you is you. And that right there is why we are in the essentially world wide health crisis we are in. Cause people stopped caring about themselves. They leave it to the 'sick'care system when something goes wrong. Then they get brainwashed into believing they will be saved by the 'great white coat'!
They dont cure anything. They cover up the symptoms.
 
Ok, so just to refer to your 7m globally...out of 8 billion? Really? More people die of smoking and alcohol yearly.

Yeah, my own summation of your view (without in any way wanting to be confrontational) is that you just don't get it. 7m people dying to a global pandemic that seemingly came from nowhere is kind of a big deal, whichever way you cut it. Of course, at the same time people kept dying of other causes. It's the equivalent of 7m people dropping dead from liver disease and cirrhosis, despite their never having had alcohol. That's a big deal. IMO YMMV

There are many ways to die, and we truly didn't need another. I'd counter your other points, or at least express my opinion of them, but as I stated earlier, I don't see the point at revisiting Covid 19. What I will say is that, in modern times, an extraordinary event occurred which were were ill-prepared for. Where initially we didn't know what it was, how it spread, how it killed people, how to treat it, and how to protect the populace. As such, mistakes were made, along with a lot of good getting done. Because we're humans. Next time, due to Covid, I hope we do better.

And if it's a highly virulent virus, you wouldn't get the chance to second guess anyway. 🤷
 
I missed it if anyone already mentioned this but there's no way to know how many might have died without the vaccine and the perhaps the masks.
 
To get back on track….because it is important….two books by Laurie Garrett. One is “the coming plague” and the other is “betrayal of trust”. These two books starkly outline what our risks are. Globally. While some may pooh pooh governments paying attention when China builds a hospital in ten days…I do not. I am amazed we got thru this last event as well as we did. We were lucky the virus mutated quickly to our advantage. In a world with global travel it will all come to us.
 
No. There were around 7m deaths due to Covid-19 GLOBALLY. The US lost about 1.2m.



I'm going to call an end to my discussion with you on this topic, Tazz. I don't mean to offend, but I truly don't know what to say to someone who shrugs their shoulders at 7m deaths due to a new virus and pandemic. I don't think we have the same values, and I don't see a way to really discuss the issue if a shrug of the shoulders and stating "survival of the fittest" is an adequate response. Again - no offense intended, we just think very differently in the fundamentals of life and its value.

1) In my scenario, you'd likely die, and therefore be of no problem to me at all (the plague killed between 30% to 50% of the European population.

2) Because you can spread the disease by touch, and depending on the nature of the virus, via your breath or other bodily fluids. But then, I believe in community, and a cohesive society that is stronger when it works together. It seems to me you have no interest in any of that. As such, you have the answer here, you simply don't care. :) I'm not sure why I'd need to explain why I care about other people, but hey-ho. People matter.

Still, let's hope we never get to see another plague level event. (y)
The way things appear to be going, you may have to go to another country to be able to get vaccinated. There's talk of banning the polio vaccine and here in the U.S. and possibly all vaccines.
 


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