I suffer from the lack of sufficient REM sleep

ronk

ronk

Member
I recently went to the emergency room for a series of tests. I have been feeling badly for 20 years or so. The tests showed many different conditions that were deemed not to be serious.

I saw my Doctor for a follow up and told him that I'd bought a smart watch to help get some feedback on the quality of my sleep. (I suffer from Sleep Apnea, and have used a Bi-Pap machine since 2000.) The doctor looked at the results that were transferred to my iPhone. He said "You're not getting enough REM sleep!"

I have made an appointment to see a sleep doctor. The sleep clinics are notoriously busy. I was lucky to get an appointment in a month because someone had cancelled. So I'll just hold on till I get to see the Sleep Doctor.
 

ronk said:
I recently went to the emergency room for a series of tests. I have been feeling badly for 20 years or so. The tests showed many different conditions that were deemed not to be serious.

I saw my Doctor for a follow up and told him that I'd bought a smart watch to help get some feedback on the quality of my sleep. (I suffer from Sleep Apnea, and have used a Bi-Pap machine since 2000.) The doctor looked at the results that were transferred to my iPhone. He said "You're not getting enough REM sleep!"

I have made an appointment to see a sleep doctor. The sleep clinics are notoriously busy. I was lucky to get an appointment in a month because someone had cancelled. So I'll just hold on till I get to see the Sleep Doctor.
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He probably misspoke about the sleep you need. REM sleep (Rapid Eye Movement) is the stage where most dreams occur, and it is an aroused sleep. Stage 3 is deep sleep where Beta and Theta waves occur, which is probably what you really need to feel rested. As we age, we don't get near as much of that stage as we do when we are younger, but such is life.
What may help you is listening to Binaural Beats which, given enough time, syncs your brain waves to the beats and helps usher you into deep sleep. Your sleep clinic will guide you in what you need.
 
Let us know how it goes Ronk. I don't get enough of any kind of sleep. My "good night's sleep" now consists of naps during the daylight hours. I'm usually up during the middle of the night. I think my biorhythms have reverted back to the time I worked the 3 - 12 shift at Western Union. You mentioning the sleep clinics made me think of the time when my sister and I were doing marketing research studies for GSK. We were there with one or two groups. Some of the participants were knowledgeable about other studies going on. One was a sleep study that was paying participants $5,000 and it was in New York. I said no way I'd do that study if my husband couldn't be there with me. Non of our other "study buddies" was interested either. :sleep:🔕
 

Try working out hard before bedtime, stay up a couple hours more, don't worry if you get up at 9 am. Who the F/n cares. You need to wear yourself out just like when you were a kid. Try the Blue Blocker glasses that $18 pair may help you to. Almost everything you look at has tons of blue in it. Block it out may help you.

The above is meant if you are fairly physically active and have some spunk. Most can't do it as they get Senior'd.
 
I can't really exercise much. I use a walker to get about. Both of my knees need to be replaced. I suffer from Daytime Drowsiness... I continually fall asleep and immediately wake up. It's very tiring!

I'm in a routine where I like to wake up at 8 AM, and then get ready to eat lunch with my friends. Then I get a nap after lunch.
 
You know enjoy it all. Don't worry so much about when you sleep. Life's hell an ... ... an ... go to ////// (y)
 
ronk said:
I can't really exercise much. I use a walker to get about. Both of my knees need to be replaced. I suffer from Daytime Drowsiness... I continually fall asleep and immediately wake up. It's very tiring!

I'm in a routine where I like to wake up at 8 AM, and then get ready to eat lunch with my friends. Then I get a nap after lunch.
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You might want to look into chair yoga. Very helpful for we who don't get around well.
 
bobcat48 said:
He probably misspoke about the sleep you need. REM sleep (Rapid Eye Movement) is the stage where most dreams occur, and it is an aroused sleep. Stage 3 is deep sleep where Beta and Theta waves occur, which is probably what you really need to feel rested. As we age, we don't get near as much of that stage as we do when we are younger, but such is life.
What may help you is listening to Binaural Beats which, given enough time, syncs your brain waves to the beats and helps usher you into deep sleep. Your sleep clinic will guide you in what you need.
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Actually REM sleep, even if one does not remember their dreams, is important to mental/emotional health for a variety of a reasons. Alcohol and a variety of both OTC and prescription drugs can suppress REM. So one can be REM deprived.
 
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feywon said:
Actually REM sleep, even if one does not remember their dreams, is important to mental/emotional health for a variety of a reasons. Alcohol and a variety of both OTC and prescription drugs can suppress REM. So one can be REM deprived.
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Agreed that it is important in memory consolidation, emotional processing, and even brain development, but it is hardly restful. There is irregular breathing, elevated heart rate, increased brain activity, and elevated blood pressure. so even though it is beneficial for emotional health, it isn't the restful stage stage of sleep, which I think is what he is missing out on, but I defer that to the experts.
 
ronk said:
I can't really exercise much. I use a walker to get about. Both of my knees need to be replaced. I suffer from Daytime Drowsiness... I continually fall asleep and immediately wake up. It's very tiring!

I'm in a routine where I like to wake up at 8 AM, and then get ready to eat lunch with my friends. Then I get a nap after lunch.
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Do let us know, as other posters said too,
how it goes with the specialists at the Sleep office.

We'll be interested to hear about that.
 
ronk said:
I'd bought a smart watch to help get some feedback on the quality of my sleep
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I bought a Fitbit watch for myself and my wife in order to monitor our sleep stats. REM is so important, but the Deep sleep is what I'm hoping to improve, as that's when the body can wash away some of the plaque that builds in between neural synapses. The plaque buildup is a major cause of Dementia, but one of the few that can be reversed.
 
ronk said:
He said "You're not getting enough REM sleep!"
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I've found that L-Theanine causes me to dream more, so maybe it increases REM time, I'm not sure. I only like a little bit of it but sleep pills that have it put in too much (IMO), so for example, when I take Natrol's "3 a.m. Melatonin Sleep" which has 50mg of L-Theanine, I break the pill up into quarters (would prefer even smaller but don't want a pile of crumbs, ha ha).
 
This is a bit confusing. Lately I get several hours of sleep. I usually wake once a night, for "obvious reasons." I do dream, but often the dreams are troubling. In the dreams, I don't know where I am, can't find my home, or can't get into my apartment building, etc. Some nights I even have two dreams.

It's the quality of sleep that is a concern. Last night I slept 10 hours with a sleep score of 67. Deep sleep was 19% (1 hour 56 minutes), REM sleep 9% (54 min), and awake 2 times. Beyond that I get a bit fuzzy-headed.

Thanks, everyone, for all your support.
 
Ronk: Do you exercise in fresh air during the day? Husband (deceased) slept much better after a game of golf; I walk 3 miles/day and sleep 7 to 8 hours without waking up.

A "light snack" with dairy before bedtime might help - eg: yogurt, small glass of Keifer, apple with a slice of cheese or other light snack with milk. (ie babies drink milk and don't have a problem with sleeping)
 
bobcat48 said:
Agreed that it is important in memory consolidation, emotional processing, and even brain development, but it is hardly restful. There is irregular breathing, elevated heart rate, increased brain activity, and elevated blood pressure. so even though it is beneficial for emotional health, it isn't the restful stage stage of sleep, which I think is what he is missing out on, but I defer that to the experts.
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True, in fact, when i had my last sleep test i was told most of my apnea events occurred during REM sleep. Don't know if that's true of everyone.
 
I am doing my best to cope, day by day. For a couple weeks I just hid out in my apartment. I just didn't want to go out into the world when I felt so lousy. But my friends said they missed me... I missed them too. So I stumble downstairs every day to have lunch with everyone. Then I come upstairs and have a nap.
 
ronk do you think its boredom? You seem really really boring! Haha (y)
Maybe it's boring friends? No insult intended just fun. Maybe sit down
on the steps wake up and take a walk. Haha Take a Bus, sleep in the Bus
get out and take a different bus. Haha Anything to releieve the pain, the pain!
Oh My God, The Pain! Haha
 
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It seems like sleeping problems go hand in hand with getting older. I never had problems sleeping until 2 years ago. I wake up every 2 hours to change positions. I usually go to the bathroom also.

Sometimes I am awake in the middle of the night for a few hours. If I go to bed later that doesn’t happen. Lately one night I only sleep 5 hours and then the next night 10.
 
Sunday has always been my sleeps in day, the rest was lucky to be 6/7 hours, more likely 5 or 6...energy would deplete till dinner at 5 and then perk back up in an hour or so for another evening of WTF's going on tonight. Most likely all Seniors need to figure out a way to physically wear themselves out during alert times, not worry about sleeping. Many of us cannot shovel snow or weed garden but just search for a way to work, even talking a ton of gossip. ha-ha
 
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RONK you most likely need some oxygen, boring is a state of mind. Haha. Fair sailing with a good O2 wind.
 
ronk said:
papa tiger, my life is boring!

I believe the problem is my BiPap machine. It's around 20 years old. We're supposed to get a new machine about every 3 years.
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Do you have insurance that will help with replacement cost? And again is say---talk to doc about it---make a list before appointments if necessary. That's what i'm doing for next check up on 8/4.

i'm fortunate my insurance covers most of cost for my CPAP machine, the quarterly supply shipments and the annual check ups for me and the machine. i take the machine with me to the Sleep Center of UNM, they check out the functioning and read the data card to see how i'm doing. i'm guessing CPAPs are a little less complicated than Bi-PAPs since they don't have to be changing the pressure constantly and that's why they may need more frequent replacement. Tho i lucked out, and was one of those who got a free replacement after a couple of years due to the Phillips recall. Because i live in a drier than average climate, my machine has a humidifier attached. i use only distilled water in that. i clean the filters, hose and masks on weekly basis unless i'm replacing any of those parts that day.

Oh and another consideration is other physical issues, including even OTC meds---we all have individual reactions to such things. My machine actually gives me a daily read out of hours of use and average # of apneaic (AHI) events per hour. Their literature says anything over 5, especially if continually is cause for concern. i generally run 1.5 to 3. something during 6-7 hrs of sleep. (In summer sometimes only 5 hrs of sleep cause i'm very synched to daylight). if i need a pain killer for anything it's best for me to take it several hours before going to sleep or my AHI count increases.

In late June i had tooth extraction that took weeks to heal and was still ejecting small tooth fragments as recently as a week ago. The first week after that extraction it felt like every nerve in my mouth had been 'agitated'. Couldn't eat anything requiring biting and chewing for days. Even tho i took pain meds in afternoon (just the required rinsing would up the discomfort). i still had readings above 5 for days. Not sure, plan on asking the sleep doc when i see in January for annual, what was going on--but clearly it was related to the dental issues because as the tooth socket healed my AHI reading returned to normal, well under the 'max' healthy reading. My point being if you're on meds for other things or have other health issues they might be effecting the quality of your sleep.
 

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