Protests In Iran Spread, Putting Government In Quandary

Lavinia said:
and it isn't really surprising when you consider how so many women are dressed.
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This attitude is exactly what we are brainwashed to believe. There is nothing wrong with women's bodies and displaying your body doesn't mean rape is not surprising. A woman is not bad because she doesn't cover her hair, or because her ankles are showing, or because she's wearing short-shorts, or because she's going topless on a French beach, or if she is flat out nude.
 

Pepper said:
I believe, from what I've heard and been told, that it is from the interpretation of the Koran, not the actual demands of it. @OneEyedDiva will be able to give an indepth view of this if she wants to. She has spoken eloquently before on this topic.
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The Koran does not stipulate wearing any face or head coverings.
This is a made up law by old men who wish to oppress women.
 
Jamala said:
The Koran does not stipulate wearing any face or head coverings.
This is a made up law by old men who wish to oppress women.
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The Quran is not the sole basis of Islamic belief and practice. The Hadith and Sunna are equally defining. All three are sources for Sharia, or Islamic Law.

Women are legally disadvantaged by Islamic law in several domains of life. Particularly, women are disadvantaged in matters of se.ual, domestic, legal, financial, sartorial, and physical autonomy. According to Islamic legal theory, while not all of Islamic law necessarily has a perceptibly rational basis, legal restrictions on women may be due to their supposed intellectual deficiency, which was pronounced by Muhammad according to Sahih Bukhari.

So I would guess the adherents of Shia Islam in Iran would say all those adherents of Sunni Islam are 'fake Muslims'.
 
amwassil said:
The Quran is not the sole basis of Islamic belief and practice. The Hadith and Sunna are equally defining. All three are sources for Sharia, or Islamic Law.
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There is more than one Hadith. They have been written and interpreted by scholars of Islam. Many mistakes to be made and many interpretations. To get the full meaning of what Islam conveys you have to read the Quran.

The Sunnah on the other hand has been passed on from one generation to another, so there is little chance of any error.
 
amwassil said:
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/09...-protestors-and-how-the-world-should-respond/
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Sure hope the protests go somewhere this time, but am not optimistic...

One contributing factor to Iran's problems that I have not seen discussed is the departure of many of the best and brightest. There are over half a million Iranian immigrants living in the US and Canada ( https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iranian-immigrants-united-states-2021 ). If these people had stayed in Iran they may well have made up the core of a more successful reform movement.

I believe we have benefited from these immigrants, many well educated and/or entrepreneurs amongst them that have contributed significantly to our economy. However those people were a loss to Iran.

I am sure those immigrants have a better safer life here, or most anyway.

Not commenting on what we should do, but I think this may be one unintended consequence of our immigration policies.
 
Lavinia said:
This is the opinion that most Muslim men have of white women, and it isn't really surprising when you consider how so many women are dressed.
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Aren't many Muslims "white"? Iran means "Land of the Aryans" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Iran). And certainly most people would consider Bosnian Muslims "white". Not that I consider "white" to be a very useful term...

I have known a lot of Muslim men, never heard one complain about how Western women dress. Probably some do, but I doubt it's "most", too much variety amongst the Muslims.
 
amwassil said:
Sorry @OneEyedDiva but your romantic view of Islam is nonsense. In reality women in Islamic coutries are chattel of their husbands. You can quote Quranic verses all you like and that reality won't change. Islam is a pathological idealogy of bigotry, intolerance and hatred. We see it going on all the time in the world's Muslim countries. You can quote the Quran all you like, but I believe what I see.
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First of all, what I posted were not my "views"...they were what's written in the Holy Quran and quotes from Hadith by Prophet Muhammad (PBH) as published on the Islamic site I linked. I specified those parts or does your ignorance adversely affect your ability to read?! Everything else I stated was from what I've read in books by Islamic scholars on what husbands and wives should practice in their marriages. I read several before making up my mind about marrying the Muslim who became my second husband.
~So are you saying you know Islam better than the scholars and better than other Muslims?
~Have you ever read the book of Hadiths, the Quran, which by the way over 1400 years ago gave women the right to be educated, own their own businesses and participate in politics?
~Have you ever gone to an Islamic lecture or to a mosque to hear what's being taught? My husband and I have visited several (in N.J., N.Y., Maryland and Virginia), heard kutbahs by several different Imams and Sheiks, none of who demeaned women in any way. In fact it is stressed that women must be treated with respect.

Apparently besides being intellectually challenged, you suffer from selective memory loss! Caucasians not only enslaved my people and ripped them from their homes, they sold my ancestors like chattel, they denied our rights to an education (didn't even want us to learn to read), raped our women, brutally beat and lynched our men and separated families. I'm sure many of them were Christians. Christians imposed their religious beliefs on the Africans they enslaved...most of whom were Muslims. They looked down on us as if we aren't even human and some Whites still do. Yet you have the nerve to bring up Muslim bigotry to me?!

Judging all Muslims by focusing on those who are clearly doing wrong makes you a bigot. That kind of thinking is what fuels and perpetuates Islamophobia. What if I judged all Caucasians by those who brutally killed Blacks over the last 400 years (there have been more than 6,400 lynchings, not to mention countless other murders), or the mass murderers, most of whom have been White, or those who commit terrible acts in the name of Christianity? I'm glad I'm not like you! I don't judge an entire race of people or religious group by the worst of them.
 
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For anyone who cares about this topic - and I suspect there aren't many - but maybe I'm wrong. Here are rebuttals to the rosy and romanticized view of Islam vis a vis women presented by selectively quoting/citing the (unholy) Quran and Hadiths and leaving out all the other stuff that doesn't support that fantasy.

https://answering-islam.org/Green/womenstatus.htm
https://answering-islam.org/Authors/Newton/women.html

Meanwhile, I'm going to continue watching events in Iran, hoping against reality that something good and liberating results.
 
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I'm glad to see so many people protesting what happened to that beautiful young woman and revolting against the oppressive regime. I'm sorry however, that so many lost their lives while doing so. I can hope against hope that these massive protests across the globe will make a difference but I seriously doubt it. Sadly, I also doubt anything will happen to the police involved in her arrest. May Allah be pleased with her and may she rest in paradise. :cry:
 
More good news, I think...

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-irans-protests-differ-past-movements

Unlike previous protests, the movement’s chief source of discontent is neither economic nor an isolated political decision. The protesters’ main slogan so far is “Women, Life, Freedom,” indicating a more generalized and profound opposition to the Islamic Republic’s entire totalitarian system. The regime’s comprehensive effort to “Islamize” Iranian society and engineer all aspects of citizens’ lives has steadily deprived people of freedoms in the private and public sphere. Women have been subjected to the worst of these human rights violations, with their very bodies becoming Iran’s most crucial political battleground. Hence, human dignity and freedom lie at the heart of the movement’s current demands, centering on recognition of women as the primary victims of the regime’s patriarchal tradition and authoritarian Islamist ideology. This foundation could make the movement a particularly powerful humanistic, egalitarian, liberal, and secular force in Iran, with tremendous potential for spurring fundamental change.
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