Man gets only 20 weeks suspended sentence for sharing his friends' pix on porn sites

VintageBetter

Senior Member
His female friends' pictures were manipulated by porn site users into deep fakes, then shared online repeatedly.

'I was deepfaked by my best friend'

Once again I ask the Universe, why are men running the world? WHY? Whether it's the cyber world or the real world, it's mostly men in charge. We have to change that. Men, you have not proven yourselves to be very wise, kind, compassionate or thoughtful. This news story is just one of billions of examples.
 
Avril Phaedra Douglas "Kim" Campbell is a former Canadian politician, diplomat, lawyer, and writer who served as the 19th prime minister of Canada.

On 24 June 2010, Julia Gillard became Australia's 27th Prime Minister.

Jacinda Ardern was sworn-in as the 40th Prime Minister of New Zealand by Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy on 26 October 2017. She became New Zealand's third female Prime Minister after Jenny Shipley (1997–1999) and Helen Clark (1999–2008).

Margaret Thatcher's term as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom began on 4 May 1979 and ran for eleven years, winning three elections in the process.

Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister of India twice. She served the first time between 1966 and 1977 and the second time between 1980 and 1984. She also studied at the University of Oxford in England.

The ladies are getting into it, wouldn't you say?
 
Avril Phaedra Douglas "Kim" Campbell is a former Canadian politician, diplomat, lawyer, and writer who served as the 19th prime minister of Canada.

On 24 June 2010, Julia Gillard became Australia's 27th Prime Minister.

Jacinda Ardern was sworn-in as the 40th Prime Minister of New Zealand by Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy on 26 October 2017. She became New Zealand's third female Prime Minister after Jenny Shipley (1997–1999) and Helen Clark (1999–2008).

Margaret Thatcher's term as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom began on 4 May 1979 and ran for eleven years, winning three elections in the process.

Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister of India twice. She served the first time between 1966 and 1977 and the second time between 1980 and 1984. She also studied at the University of Oxford in England.

The ladies are getting into it, wouldn't you say?
When Congress is 50% female, and 1/2 of our states' governors are female, and when 50% of all news and radio reporters are female, then I will be OK with things.

Being female DOES NOT automatically make one a good leader. Not at all. But it sure gives you a different perspective on life than most men. New perspectives are what we need.

So many men are making very important decisions, decisions for whole nations, all fueled by testosterone.
Harvard biologist discusses testosterone's role in society
Five Ways High Testosterone Impacts Men's Behavior
 
His female friends' pictures were manipulated by porn site users into deep fakes, then shared online repeatedly.

'I was deepfaked by my best friend'

Once again I ask the Universe, why are men running the world? WHY? Whether it's the cyber world or the real world, it's mostly men in charge. We have to change that. Men, you have not proven yourselves to be very wise, kind, compassionate or thoughtful. This news story is just one of billions of examples.

That's really harsh on men. The only reason you and I can communicate at all is because of men. In fact, there isn't anything in life I can think of right now that doesn't require the inclusion of men in its outcome. So I think we need to be reasonable about it and realize that bad people do bad things, and these days there are many bad women too.

Pornography taps into our innate desire to copulate, and ultimately procreate. Men can't be trained not to be interested in women in a sexual sense, not without wiping out all of humanity. Social decorum is what prohibits us, and rightfully so. Technology simply gives pornography different ways to express itself. The "celebrity sex tape" phenomena has now progressed to normal folk like you and I, and it no longer requires even our participation at any moment - ie. we can be visually recreated in obscene situations in pixels and animated.

The term "the genie is out of the bottle" certainly applies here. You can no longer stop people making fake videos. You can only punish those that do.

However, the coming of this tech has coincided with the rise of Social Media, and this is key. I've said it so many times, but every time you decide to post a picture online, however innocent; every time you decide to post what you ate, where you went, and who with, you are handing information to strangers. You are providing data to AI, you are giving others your movements, your habits, your likes and dislikes, your politics, your religion, your families information, and so on. When you post a picture of you with the grandkids, you're not only giving out information about yourself, but about them too.

And there is nothing whatsoever you can do about it.

Everything posted is encoded, indexed, and propagated. To give you a very basic idea, I worked on a project that was deploying an Office solution to a bank. You know the kind of thing, Word, Excel, Email, etc. They were using Google software to do this, and all data was saved to the cloud. When I investigated what "the cloud" meant in this case, it turned out that local data was actually being stored on three continents, and multiple sites on each. The term "local" had no meaning, not at the country, or the continent level. Once something was saved, it was out there, and you just trusted the whole thing to hold together. It makes you think.

Remember, nothing on the net ages. A picture of you in your 20's, if posted, is forever 20. People with various skill sets can de-age, add age, and alter just about anything about you. There are no limits. What the girl in story suffered from was sharing pictures in some way, or having pictures taken of her. A guy posted those pictures online, and deepfakes were made from them. Then, through a simple image search, those fake images were connected back to her actual Social Media presence. It's important to remember, this could happen to anyone posting online.

You mostly see this kind of identity theft is so called Catfishing scams. Present a pretty picture, and draw in the vulnerable victims. It happens everyday.

So, what can be done? Firstly, people need to be more aware of what they're doing online. Always assume passwords and permissions will fail and mean nothing. Beware of the overshare - only post what you don't mind the entire planet knowing. In the worst case scenario, we need to make sure there is adequate punishment for those that do this kind of thing. But stop it? Not an option. Not only would it be incredibly difficult to do, but it would mean actively monitoring and censoring the internet. It would require huge changes to internet commerce that no-one wants.

I feel sorry for this lady, but all she can do now is prosecute, and stay ever vigilant, because honestly, once something is posted on the internet, it never ever goes away.
 
I am all for having more and more women get into politics. It has been slow, but it is happening, and it is changing our politics. But @VaughanJB has explained that as far as deep fakes go, it is the wild, wild, west now, and getting worse each day. I heard Norm Chomsky speak on the new AI development to summarize : CoPilot:

Noam Chomsky, the renowned linguist, has expressed skepticism regarding chatbots like ChatGPT. In an essay titled “The False Promise of ChatGPT,” co-authored with linguistics professor Ian Roberts and AI researcher Jeffery Watumull, Chomsky argues against the notion that artificial intelligence programs like ChatGPT can replicate human thinking and reasoning. Their primary contention lies in the fact that these programs cannot explain the rules of English syntax, rendering their predictions superficial and dubious1.

Chomsky’s influential theory of universal grammar, which posits that humans are genetically encoded with a structural framework in the brain enabling language acquisition, remains a plausible explanation for our capacity to communicate. Despite challenges from other researchers, Chomsky’s work continues to shape the field of linguistics1.

In a separate interview, Chomsky referred to ChatGPT as “high-tech plagiarism” and questioned its true educational value. While acknowledging that such systems may have some utility, he emphasized that their purpose is not always clear2.

In summary, Chomsky remains critical of chatbots like ChatGPT, highlighting their limitations and potential pitfalls in the realm of language and cognition. His perspective adds depth to ongoing discussions about the intersection of artificial intelligence and human intelligence.


He also said there is no way to stop it, and there are going to be bad outcomes, and actors to be sure. The most important thing we can do is become very cautious of what we read and see on social media. Become aware that what you think is real, is not. We need regulation soon. Congress has stopped the use of Chatbots for Government employees. Micro soft is working on special bots for Congress. Wild!
 
I am all for having more and more women get into politics. It has been slow, but it is happening, and it is changing our politics. But @VaughanJB has explained that as far as deep fakes go, it is the wild, wild, west now, and getting worse each day. I heard Norm Chomsky speak on the new AI development to summarize : CoPilot:

Noam Chomsky, the renowned linguist, has expressed skepticism regarding chatbots like ChatGPT. In an essay titled “The False Promise of ChatGPT,” co-authored with linguistics professor Ian Roberts and AI researcher Jeffery Watumull, Chomsky argues against the notion that artificial intelligence programs like ChatGPT can replicate human thinking and reasoning. Their primary contention lies in the fact that these programs cannot explain the rules of English syntax, rendering their predictions superficial and dubious1.

Chomsky’s influential theory of universal grammar, which posits that humans are genetically encoded with a structural framework in the brain enabling language acquisition, remains a plausible explanation for our capacity to communicate. Despite challenges from other researchers, Chomsky’s work continues to shape the field of linguistics1.

In a separate interview, Chomsky referred to ChatGPT as “high-tech plagiarism” and questioned its true educational value. While acknowledging that such systems may have some utility, he emphasized that their purpose is not always clear2.

In summary, Chomsky remains critical of chatbots like ChatGPT, highlighting their limitations and potential pitfalls in the realm of language and cognition. His perspective adds depth to ongoing discussions about the intersection of artificial intelligence and human intelligence.


He also said there is no way to stop it, and there are going to be bad outcomes, and actors to be sure. The most important thing we can do is become very cautious of what we read and see on social media. Become aware that what you think is real, is not. We need regulation soon. Congress has stopped the use of Chatbots for Government employees. Micro soft is working on special bots for Congress. Wild!

Well, if we were 1% as smart as Chomsky, I'd be happy. He's a deep thinker, of which we have too few.

That last paragraph is what really gets me. SO MUCH of what I read people posting on the net, and in videos, has a basis in fiction. Lies are told, and then consumed, repeated, and suddenly, like a mad game of Chinese Whispers, become someone's truth. It truly is one of our greatest dangers.

I'd actually say, the greatest danger to democracy today, to freedom and prosperity, is the lack of discernment we, as a society show, to what we're being exposed too. The coming elections in both the US and (currently expected in October) the UK are a nightmare. Not only has the gutter become mainstream, but there are no rules about what is acceptable. The outcome of the next election in the US will be no outcome at all. The result doesn't matter. Nothing within the ravines in society will be bridged. Much of what is considered important and relevant isn't, and things that would have automatically meant expulsion from power, now matter not one iota. Never before has the expectations of a new President been so flimsy.

I could blame politicians on both sides for allowing this to happen, but honestly, the real problem is us. We lack anything like the level of discernment we need. We like what we like to like. Disagreement is an analog of hate. And more than ever, money rules the roost. Social Media has dumbed us down to an unfathomable degree, and anyone with an education or expertise has been reduced to simply being "bias" or "brainwashed". Think about it.

We need more Chomsky's to help us figure a way out, but sadly, we're just getting less of them, and no-one listens to them anyway.
 
@VaughanJB
No comment other than "there is nothing we can do about it" is the language of giving up. Toss hands in air, walk away as Rome burns. (In other words, "I've got mine so you can all go to Hades.")

Let's all move to Mars and leave Earth's troubles behind.
 
@VaughanJB
No comment other than "there is nothing we can do about it" is the language of giving up. Toss hands in air, walk away as Rome burns. (In other words, "I've got mine so you can all go to Hades.")

Let's all move to Mars and leave Earth's troubles behind.

Well, I'm certainly open to hearing your ideas on the topic. Tell me how you're going to stop a 16 year old kid going on to Social Media, downloading a posted picture, opening it in free software on a smartphone, editing it, and then re-uploading. Because I don't have any idea.
 
Nope. Sorry. I'm trying to stick to doing work I can be paid for these days, and I don't know enough about tech, algorithms, and law to even address the issue. I will leave that up to those much smarter than I am.

But darn, we cannot just give slaps to the wrists of people who harm the online reputations of others. If you don't want them to spend a few months in jail, then let's start with a $10,000 fine for each victim. Or each image created?

States need revenue - fines for mayhem and ruin of reputations would be a good revenue source.

Perhaps they should also have to pay restoration penalties to their victims and their families. Start at $50,000 per image created? Or $100,000?

But it should be a LOT because if the victims have trouble getting hired now that they are out there portrayed as porn actors, then they need many years of income restoration.

$500,000 per victim? Maybe that's 10 years of middle class income?

And now you will argue that is too much.
 
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Vintage, I think your comment in the OP about men running the world removed focus from your main topic (IMO)...that someone basically got a slap on the wrist for doing such a heinous deed! Women get the short end of the stick when it comes to meeting out justice in our favor. And that is why so many women do not come forth when being violated. Also, it's not fair to generalize about the character of men. There are some real dogs, SOBs and POS of the male gender, but there are also many good, decent, caring men in the world.
 
Nope. Sorry. I'm trying to stick to doing work I can be paid for these days, and I don't know enough about tech, algorithms, and law to even address the issue. I will leave that up to those much smarter than I am.

Yes, this is the very very verbose me back for moment.

So, I have taken some time out to skim the surface of AI. And I do mean skim the surface. I just wanted to get a better idea of what it is, what it's doing, and where it's heading. I don't suggest anyone else should do it, but I have a natural curiosity. Also, you don't get much from just skimming.

So what have I seen?

Well, firstly I saw a working application that does the following: You take a video of yourself, or use a video from someone else, as a base. In the example, it's a video of a guy walking through what appears to be a park next to some office buildings. The guy is talking to the camera. Having pulled this up in the application, you can then use your webcam/camera to record say, gestures (raising a hand, pointing at something, putting your arms above your head, etc.) This is the run through the app, and when replayed, the character in the video perfectly replicates your new gestures.

This app goes one step farther too. You can also give it new speech via text. You provide the speech/text into the system and it will lip-sync your model to the new words, which it will use. So now you have the original character, walking through the park, but he now raises his arms, and speaks - using a natural sounding voice - the words you give him. But it doesn't quite end there either, because since this is essentially turning your text to speech, the language doesn't matter. So if you give it Spanish, the character will speak Spanish, German, French, whatever.

What does this show/prove? Well, it shows that any video you now see of celebrities saying or doing things, need to be questioned. Don't take them for granted. You cannot trust videos posted on the Internet at face value. The model had examples of using Obama as a model, for example. They also used Elon Musk to advertise a fake investment scheme.

Second thing I saw was a simpler model that can do the same but essentially only the lip-sync bit. This is most useful if you simply want to use an interview segment from a celebrity to send a different message (change the speech/words used).

Next up, I saw a empathetic voice system demo. Essentially, we all know the robotic voices that call us on the phone asking for our passwords, or used on Help Lines, right? Well, this system can interpret the tone and timbre of your voice. In other words, it knows if you're angry, sad, depressed, inquisitive, being humorous, etc. It then models itself on human behavior to respond. So for example, if you're angry, it will use a calming voice tone. If you're sad, it shows a sympathetic voice tone, etc.

Then I learned that the BBC has, in at least one case, fired a female presenter from one of its shows because it has decided to use an AI generated voice instead. In fact, the voice-over industry (voice actors) are apparently extremely worried - their days are numbered! Turns out the BBC isn't alone, and other actors/voices have recently lost their jobs. Why? Well, the obvious, of course. It's cheaper, easier to control.

What does this show? Voices you hear on TV/videos may or not have been spoken by the actual person. In fact, it may not be a person at all.

I moved on to seeing a demo of an image creation system (and by system, I mean software). In this one, you upload an image say, of your dog (which was the example used). Let's say it's a picture of your dog standing in a field. The system then takes that dog, and is able to create new images based on it. So you get pictures of your dog jumping, running, drinking water, sitting up, laying down - all generated by the software, all photo-realistic.

A secondary to this was another system that not only models the image (as above), but also takes into account things like light source, weather conditions, etc.

What does this tell us? It tells us that the pictures we see may, or may not, be true. And no, it doesn't have to include Photoshop. In fact, if I were Adobe and owned Photoshop, I'd be mightily worried around about now.

I need to do more research on Neural Networks Scaling Laws and Entities. Though I don't think there's any interest in knowing a whole lot about AI on these forums. :D

I also found a survey where more than 40% of managers said AI would be taking over some jobs in their workplace in 2024. The jobs affected are low paid tasks rather than management. So yes, there will be a huge shift due to AI coming. It'll be justified as these things are always justified - it's about cost cutting, and what good capitalist doesn't want to do that?

This means, if you getting into the workforce now, you're going to need to skill-up. I guess it's always been that way, which is why we have education programs.

Finally I'll say - this all comes back down to my oft-made complaint about discernment. Our protection is our eyes, our curiosity, and our intelligence. We should not jump on something just because it appears on a Social Media account you subscribe too, or even if it goes viral on like-minded Social Media accounts. If you truly want to know the truth, rather than jumping on a bandwagon, you have to cast your net wider. Because increasingly, you're going to see and hear things on the net that are fabricated for effect. Not misunderstood, but actually 100% fake.

Anyway, I thank you for the inspiration to at least do a tiny tiny bit of looking into this stuff, it's fascinating.
 
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That's really harsh on men. The only reason you and I can communicate at all is because of men. In fact, there isn't anything in life I can think of right now that doesn't require the inclusion of men in its outcome. So I think we need to be reasonable about it and realize that bad people do bad things, and these days there are many bad women too.

Pornography taps into our innate desire to copulate, and ultimately procreate. Men can't be trained not to be interested in women in a sexual sense, not without wiping out all of humanity. Social decorum is what prohibits us, and rightfully so. Technology simply gives pornography different ways to express itself. The "celebrity sex tape" phenomena has now progressed to normal folk like you and I, and it no longer requires even our participation at any moment - ie. we can be visually recreated in obscene situations in pixels and animated.

The term "the genie is out of the bottle" certainly applies here. You can no longer stop people making fake videos. You can only punish those that do.

However, the coming of this tech has coincided with the rise of Social Media, and this is key. I've said it so many times, but every time you decide to post a picture online, however innocent; every time you decide to post what you ate, where you went, and who with, you are handing information to strangers. You are providing data to AI, you are giving others your movements, your habits, your likes and dislikes, your politics, your religion, your families information, and so on. When you post a picture of you with the grandkids, you're not only giving out information about yourself, but about them too.

And there is nothing whatsoever you can do about it.

Everything posted is encoded, indexed, and propagated. To give you a very basic idea, I worked on a project that was deploying an Office solution to a bank. You know the kind of thing, Word, Excel, Email, etc. They were using Google software to do this, and all data was saved to the cloud. When I investigated what "the cloud" meant in this case, it turned out that local data was actually being stored on three continents, and multiple sites on each. The term "local" had no meaning, not at the country, or the continent level. Once something was saved, it was out there, and you just trusted the whole thing to hold together. It makes you think.

Remember, nothing on the net ages. A picture of you in your 20's, if posted, is forever 20. People with various skill sets can de-age, add age, and alter just about anything about you. There are no limits. What the girl in story suffered from was sharing pictures in some way, or having pictures taken of her. A guy posted those pictures online, and deepfakes were made from them. Then, through a simple image search, those fake images were connected back to her actual Social Media presence. It's important to remember, this could happen to anyone posting online.

You mostly see this kind of identity theft is so called Catfishing scams. Present a pretty picture, and draw in the vulnerable victims. It happens everyday.

So, what can be done? Firstly, people need to be more aware of what they're doing online. Always assume passwords and permissions will fail and mean nothing. Beware of the overshare - only post what you don't mind the entire planet knowing. In the worst case scenario, we need to make sure there is adequate punishment for those that do this kind of thing. But stop it? Not an option. Not only would it be incredibly difficult to do, but it would mean actively monitoring and censoring the internet. It would require huge changes to internet commerce that no-one wants.

I feel sorry for this lady, but all she can do now is prosecute, and stay ever vigilant, because honestly, once something is posted on the internet, it never ever goes away.
Thank you, I enjoyed your comments.
 
@OneEyedDiva I agree that universally, women do not report all the crimes perpretrated upon them by men. There are so many reasons for that, but as we saw with the #MeToo movement online, one major reason is because when we do speak up, we are not believed.

I was watching a PBS show last night

AfroPop: The Ultimate Cultural Exchange

Commuted

Season 13, Episode 15

Convicted drug kingpin Danielle Metz returns home after over two decades in prison. Her triple life sentences were commuted for good behavior and now she is excited and anxious to begin a new life and reconnect with her two children.

This woman, Danielle Metz, she does not look like me, she does not have the years of education that I do, but she is a LOT like I was with my ex-husband. Almost anything that SOB wanted me to do, I did. He broke me down psychologically that badly.
********

He had and has, the help of other men to do this because he belongs to a sub-culture of conservatives who believe that he has the God-Given, Bible-Endorsed right to be an SOB in all things. His church teaches him that I am evil. (I wish I could make the italics turn off, moderator. You might have to repair that. I can't code to fix it.)


Anyway, Danielle Metz was in a very physically abusive relationship with her BF or husband who was sellign drugs, and because she sought to please him (so he would love her), she offered to be his mule. She transported money back and forth for his business.

She was arrested and prosectured under Federal drug kingpin laws. The prosecutor REALLY handed it to her - made her out to be a monster and cartel runner and never took into consideration that her partner BEAT HER into submission on a regular basis.

She actually got arrested when, after a beating, she left him. She knew there was a warrent out for her, and she fled after a beating. She was coming out of denial, knew she was in big trouble because of her bad partner, so she emotionally left. Bad thing to do, but she was in denial, AS A DV VICTIM USUALLY IS.

As she was telling that story, I could totally see the trauma in her eyes. I could hear her shame even though she has worked on getting past the shame so she can help others and tell her story, as needed.

So, she went from the trauma of that abusive relationship, to the trauma of a Federal justice system that was looking for scapegoats in its War on Drugs (scapegoats certain politicians could brag about arresting in political speeches) and she got THREE LIFE SENTENCES for those Federal crimes.

She made bad choices, she made stupid choices, but she was a romantic with a VERY BAD MAN, and the justice system had nothing for her. Not even a good lawyer.

So, @OneEyedDiva , you want to assure me and all women that there all "good guys" out there. Logically, there must be right? Otherwise the divorce rate would be 90% and more and more women would not be bothering with marriage at all (which is actually happening. More and more women are avoiding marriage and would rather stay legally single, like Goldie Hawn).

But all I know in MY life is the pure HAVOC bad men can create - and it's HAVOC that threatens to harm generations of women - not just me, but my daughters too.

Three life sentences for running money, not leaving her abuser sooner (she was probably trauma-bonded), and evading arrest because some fantasy in her brain was a substitute for her terrible reality. Three life sentences.

And why? Basically because she was hung up on a BAD MAN and she was trying to help him so he would love her, or stop hitting her, or both.

Bernie Madoff fleeced his customers out of $65 billion in funds, and he only got 150 years.

Anway, Danielle's sentence was eventually commuted.

But you know what? If we teach young women and teens how to find the GOOD MEN in life, and that means GOOD BOSSES also, who are not creepazoids, then maybe women will be able to tell the good from the bad all their lives, right?

I wonder if DV and dating violence is even taught in high school health classes? IDK.

*Even here, I just had to block/ignore a guy who kept following me around from thread to thread and wanted to talk about porn with me. Nice guy? I'm sure he believes he is a nice guy. But that's not nice guy behavior to me. Does he know that? They rule the world, these men, but do they ever self-evaluate?
 
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@OneEyedDiva I agree that universally, women do not report all the crimes perpretrated upon them by men. There are so many reasons for that, but as we saw with the #MeToo movement online, one major reason is because when we do speak up, we are not believed.

I was watching a PBS show last night

AfroPop: The Ultimate Cultural Exchange

Commuted

Season 13, Episode 15

Convicted drug kingpin Danielle Metz returns home after over two decades in prison. Her triple life sentences were commuted for good behavior and now she is excited and anxious to begin a new life and reconnect with her two children.

This woman, Danielle Metz, she does not look like me, she does not have the years of education that I do, but she is a LOT like I was with my ex-husband. Almost anything that SOB wanted me to do, I did. He broke me down psychologically that badly.
********

He had and has, the help of other men to do this because he belongs to a sub-culture of conservatives who believe that he has the God-Given, Bible-Endorsed right to be an SOB in all things. His church teaches him that I am evil. (I wish I could make the italics turn off, moderator. You might have to repair that. I can't code to fix it.)


Anyway, Danielle Metz was in a very physically abusive relationship with her BF or husband who was sellign drugs, and because she sought to please him (so he would love her), she offered to be his mule. She transported money back and forth for his business.

She was arrested and prosectured under Federal drug kingpin laws. The prosecutor REALLY handed it to her - made her out to be a monster and cartel runner and never took into consideration that her partner BEAT HER into submission on a regular basis.

She actually got arrested when, after a beating, she left him. She knew there was a warrent out for her, and she fled after a beating. She was coming out of denial, knew she was in big trouble because of her bad partner, so she emotionally left. Bad thing to do, but she was in denial, AS A DV VICTIM USUALLY IS.

As she was telling that story, I could totally see the trauma in her eyes. I could hear her shame even though she has worked on getting past the shame so she can help others and tell her story, as needed.

So, she went from the trauma of that abusive relationship, to the trauma of a Federal justice system that was looking for scapegoats in its War on Drugs (scapegoats certain politicians could brag about arresting in political speeches) and she got THREE LIFE SENTENCES for those Federal crimes.

She made bad choices, she made stupid choices, but she was a romantic with a VERY BAD MAN, and the justice system had nothing for her. Not even a good lawyer.

So, @OneEyedDiva , you want to assure me and all women that there all "good guys" out there. Logically, there must be right? Otherwise the divorce rate would be 90% and more and more women would not be bothering with marriage at all (which is actually happening. More and more women are avoiding marriage and would rather stay legally single, like Goldie Hawn).

But all I know in MY life is the pure HAVOC bad men can create - and it's HAVOC that threatens to harm generations of women - not just me, but my daughters too.

Three life sentences for running money, not leaving her abuser sooner (she was probably trauma-bonded), and evading arrest because some fantasy in her brain was a substitute for her terrible reality. Three life sentences.

And why? Basically because she was hung up on a BAD MAN and she was trying to help him so he would love her, or stop hitting her, or both.

Bernie Madoff fleeced his customers out of $65 billion in funds, and he only got 150 years.

Anway, Danielle's sentence was eventually commuted.

But you know what? If we teach young women and teens how to find the GOOD MEN in life, and that means GOOD BOSSES also, who are not creepazoids, then maybe women will be able to tell the good from the bad all their lives, right?

I wonder if DV and dating violence is even taught in high school health classes? IDK.

*Even here, I just had to block/ignore a guy who kept following me around from thread to thread and wanted to talk about porn with me. Nice guy? I'm sure he believes he is a nice guy. But that's not nice guy behavior to me. Does he know that? They rule the world, these men, but do they ever self-evaluate?
"So, @OneEyedDiva , you want to assure me and all women that there all "good guys" out there."
I understand how broken women can become when under the thumbs of horrible, manipulative men. I know that there is a "grooming" process that takes place which prevents women from leaving those situations because of the psychological brain washing. I found out at a pretty young age just how strong I can be, so didn't allow myself to fall victim to that. But I too can consider myself part of the #MeToo movement. I was molested when I was in my early 20's by someone me and my family trusted. I never told a soul because
1. I didn't want to be a further embarrassment to my family and
2. I loved his family and didn't want to be the cause of them coming apart at the seams or cause embarrassment for them either.
3. Back in those days, girls and women were put on trial more so than perpetrators of those heinous deeds.

I said further embarrassment because my birthmother, who was barely 14 when she had me, was the victim of r*pe and I am the product of that. It caused shame in my good Christian family and my grandmother gave me to her oldest brother and his wife who had no children rather than help my birthmother raise me. What a blessing that turned out to be! My father/grand uncle raised me as his own. Good man! My bio-father went to jail but was released at some point. I didn't find out who my birthmother was until the day of my 16th birthday party! I had known her as my fun, beloved "cousin". I didn't find out the full story until 1997 when my uncle (bio mom's brother) told me.

Also, because I was chubby and wore glasses, I was teased from a young age by boys and later, made to feel less than by some of the men I encountered.. But then there was the very handsome, nice boy who took me to my senior prom because my BF didn't want to go. He became one of the best friends I've ever had. He became an honorable man who helped me out when I was going through a rough time.

I've met other good men who befriended me, supported and encouraged me in my endeavors, helped me with household projects (no strings attached) and provided an ear when I needed it. If it wasn't for my supervisor pushing me to elevate myself not once, but twice within the program, I never would have been able to take early retirement.

My first husband (son's father) broke his promise to stay out of trouble and jail, so I kicked him out after only 3 months of marriage. My second husband was a kind, patient man who put up with a lot from me being
I was in full menopausal mode when we got married. A good man who would give a person the shirt off his back! I've often mentioned my dear friend Hunter on the forum. He is an extraordinary entertainer, an 8 time Emmy winner but as humble and sweet as can be. He's a gentle giant who has endured several major health scares and is so grateful for life, family, friends and fans. He's not shy about expressing that. A good man!

@Pepper and I (and my sister) are blessed to have wonderful sons...good men! I could go on because there are more good men in my life and the lives of others, but this has gotten long. Yes VB there are good men on this planet.
 
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@OneEyedDiva I'm really sorry to hear of all the pain your mother and you endured. I have male friends too.

I've not had a male supervisor who wanted to promote me to anything since I was in my late teens and 20s. One who did want to promote me wanted me to work in the food service industry and I just didn't want to be in restaurant managment.

I had back and foot pain even way back then, but it was easier to ignore it because I was young. (Even as I write that I can hear the bad men in my life saying, "You should have taken that opportunity! You should have gone into restaurant work!" The bad men in MY life do not allow me or any females to make our own choices. The females will push back on their bullying, but Lordy, what a freakin' sense of entitlement they have to boss women around!)

Does testosterone foster entitlement? Some researcher should study that.

One of these Boss Men sat at a desk or in a car all day for his work. So, he gets to sit at a desk all day, resting his feet and back, but he expects the women in his life to be on their feet all day, breaking their backs and creating massive bunions on our aching feet while he sits on his derriere? He also expects us to cook.

When I have said to certain men, "I would just like a job in which I could SIT DOWN", they look at me like I'm a frickin' lazy turd; like I have upset the balance of the universe. Like I have asked for waaaay too much out of life.

I think you have been luckier than me @OneEyedDiva . I have met so many Neanderthals.

It's like when I say those scandalous words, "If I ever get remarried, I really do not want to cook for a man", some guys react to that with, "BURN HER FOR A WITCH!"





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