Newark International Outages Raise Safety Concerns About U.S. Airports

OneEyedDiva

OneEyedDiva

SF VIP
Location
New Jersey
For the fourth time in two weeks, Newark International Airport (N.J. code EWR), one of the busiest in the country, has experienced technical issues. Three were radar outages and one was caused by a technical glitch in the Philadelphia (PA) substation. The radar outages were for 90 seconds each and air traffic controllers had to warn pilots that they could not guide their planes in for landings. The outages caused duress for the controllers, several of whom took sick leave because of the stress. That combination of events have caused delays and cancelations, creating a travel nightmare across the country. The FAA is scheduled to meet with airport officials Wednesday and will likely call for a certain percentage of daily flights to be canceled.

Thank goodness, my son was able to change his upcoming Friday flight from EWR to LaGuardia in New York. However, that change almost doubled his ticket price! :cautious: The video report below highlights the serious concern about outdated equipment and failing airport infrastructure across the country. Unfortunately it can take 4 to 5 years to fix the issues. I hope they can get it done before their is another tragedy.
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/news/video/newark-airport-atc-outages-raise-safety-concerns-121677499
 

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This is really too bad. The issues were known for decades, and promises were made and (big) money spent yet here we still are.

These things can be a real challenge though, as I know from personal and professional experience. It is really really unfortunate to turn up your nose at "legacy" systems without understanding how complex they must be and how many safeguards they contain. As a result it can often take as many as four attempts to replace them, and even then you often face some loss in functionality.

Specific industries (such as air traffic control) tend to lose the kinds of expertise needed to engineer a system properly when they rest on their laurels for too long. To get the job done means bringing up a new generation that can get past things like biases for/against specific technology components as well as acquiring deep knowledge of the application to be addressed. Until you get there you can wrestle with a lot of "ready, FIRE, aim" scenarios that fall down hard. Rinse. repeat.

Try to stay far away from outfits like Deloitte, IBM, Oracle, Accenture, etc. who are big on promises, big on price, and thin on real experience performing such "upgrades" with success - much less the knowledge of industry-specialized systems like ATC. It is no coincidence that they have so many lawyers: customers end up suing them left and right.
 
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There's probably multiple issues in play, Yes replacing it would be nice but what are THE actual issues at this time.

I don't care if the wires are old as someone said on the news. If maintained they shouldn't be an issue. Are the wires getting wet, becoming disconnected. Wires are not a moving part so unless their disturbed/damaged they shouldn't be the issue. Even old hardware/software can be updated. As can a few things be upgraded to fiber.

Maybe there's been hacks they don't want to talk about. Or on site sabotage. Or flat out neglected repairs, not replacements. Everyone wants to replace because it's easier and covers their butt for poor maintenance. Also comes out of a capital expense budget and not a repair budget.

I don't want to hear old I want to know what THE issue was with each of these incidents.
 

StarSong said:
Hmmm.... I have a flight booked into and out of Newark in a few months. 😵‍💫
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I wouldn’t worry about it.

The only real change is that now the issues are getting some media attention, in a week or two this will fall out of the news cycle and something else will be sensationalized.

So far, even with the technical glitches, the system and it’s built in safeguards seem to be working.
 
dilettante said:
This is really too bad. The issues were known for decades, and promises were made and (big) money spent yet here we still are.

These things can be a real challenge though, as I know from personal and professional experience. It is really really unfortunate to turn up your nose at "legacy" systems without understanding how complex they must be and how many safeguards they contain. As a result it can often take as many as four attempts to replace them, and even then you often face some loss in functionality.

Specific industries (such as air traffic control) tend to lose the kinds of expertise needed to engineer a system properly when they rest on their laurels for too long. To get the job done means bringing up a new generation that can get past things like biases for/against specific technology components as well as acquiring deep knowledge of the application to be addressed. Until you get there you can wrestle with a lot of "ready, FIRE, aim" scenarios that fall down hard. Rinse. repeat.

Try to stay far away from outfits like Deloitte, IBM, Oracle, Accenture, etc. who are big on promises, big on price, and thin on real experience performing such "upgrades" with success - much less the knowledge of industry-specialized systems like ATC. It is no coincidence that they have so many lawyers: customers end up suing them left and right.
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I used to work for Accenture. Lawsuits were pretty common. I'm wondering what you would suggest given your experience?
 
I flew in and out of EWR a few hundred times. Pilots have been complaining about that airport for years. I fly coast to coast from SFO (San Francisco) to EWR, which is an almost 6 hour flight. Usually we had a nice tailwind and would get into New York 20-40 minutes early.

Then what happens? The traffic controller tells me to go around because I arrived too early and they don’t have my gate open. They don’t realize what it costs the airline in fuel to go around. Minimally, it takes at least 20 minutes, but if they send me out over the city, it could take twice that. The passengers can see we have reached our destination and they want off the plane.

I have to tell them over the intercom, “Ladies and Gentlemen, I am sure you can see we have reached our destination, but the air traffic controllers are telling me we have to go around because our gate isn’t available. I apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience. Hopefully, we will have you at the gate shortly.”
 
Irishdude said:
I used to work for Accenture. Lawsuits were pretty common. I'm wondering what you would suggest given your experience?
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Large and critical systems like air traffic control need better custodianship. They need to last over time and be maintained while in use. This requires money to be spent as they go, but also high-quality caretaking that maintains deep knowledge of the system and its application's requirements - which can change over time.

As major updates are required the core system gurus should be the ones to interact with contractors. They should be involved in writing requirements and in vetting bids for assistance when large overhauls are required. Once a path is chosen they need to be kept involved and in many cases have veto power over technology directions.

The big outfits often wheedle their way around this by sidling up to upper management and promising them the moon. That moon often includes cushy jobs with them after it all falls to ashes.

But essentially the customers need to do much more to cultivate expertise, or find themselves being sold another monorail.

 
Read there was only one air traffic controller trying to handle 180 flights !?!?!
Even when that controller gets off work, (s)he still has to go home in Newark.
No wonder air traffic controllers routinely get job burn out.

Wonder if that's something AI could best handle once all the bugs are worked out of AI.
 
StarSong said:
Hmmm.... I have a flight booked into and out of Newark in a few months. 😵‍💫
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I certainly hope the issues are fixed by then Star. I just saw on the news that a Denver airport had a similar radar outage. I also saw a report about a Newark air traffic controller that said he had seconds to avert a mid air collision during the outage. It recall spooked him, so he's on medical leave. He said he wouldn't want to be responsible for the deaths of 400 passengers. I can't blame him.
 
Since the 1981 traffic controllers strike, the group has been underfunded, underpaid, and undermanned. And most of the major airports were designed and built in the 1930s, so they've always had problems with adjusting to new technology and the huge increase in air travel.
 
StarSong said:
Hmmm.... I have a flight booked into and out of Newark in a few months. 😵‍💫
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I guess you didn’t have a choice, but the better choice would have been JFK. JFK is much larger, but it always seemed to me that it’s easier to navigate through the airport than Newark, even though they only have three concourses.

JFK also has more of everything, including restaurants. Newark’s major problem from the aviation side is that we were mostly always late leaving because it’s much smaller than JFK, so it took longer to get the plane fueled, we would get backed up at the runway, sometimes there would be as many as six planes in front of us and the air traffic controllers weren’t very accommodating.

Good luck and happy flying. May I ask what airline? If it’s Delta, don’t tell me. (lol)
 
oldman said:
I guess you didn’t have a choice, but the better choice would have been JFK. JFK is much larger, but it always seemed to me that it’s easier to navigate through the airport than Newark, even though they only have three concourses.

JFK also has more of everything, including restaurants. Newark’s major problem from the aviation side is that we were mostly always late leaving because it’s much smaller than JFK, so it took longer to get the plane fueled, we would get backed up at the runway, sometimes there would be as many as six planes in front of us and the air traffic controllers weren’t very accommodating.

Good luck and happy flying. May I ask what airline? If it’s Delta, don’t tell me. (lol)
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I try to fly United because I have one of their CCs. That's why EWR instead of JFK. Also, my destination this time is in NJ.
Other than pandemic time and a couple of years after, I usually go to NY/NJ about once a year. (Twice last year - one for the Little League World Series in PA.) Most of my siblings live in the area, as do the lion's share of my extended family. Lots of friends there, too.

I sometimes fly to JFK, but more often if visiting friends on Long Island, I'll take Southwest and puddle jump into Islip. Nice little airport.
 
@oldman: Last week I got this email from United:


​

​
Thank you for your loyalty as a United MileagePlus® member. Since you have an upcoming trip that includes Newark Liberty International (EWR) Airport, I thought you'd be interested in all we're doing to maintain the highest safety standards there.

The past few weeks of headlines have put the United States' air traffic control system in the spotlight. Our hard-working air traffic controllers clearly need more staff and better technology, and the good news is that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has a plan to make that happen.

But despite these challenges and constraints, there are many procedures in place to ensure your safety when you fly with us. As you can see in this video from United Captain Miles Morgan, every United pilot is trained for a wide range of potential issues, including radar or communications outages.

The truth is that all the flights in and out of EWR are absolutely safe. When there are FAA issues, such as technology outages or staffing shortages, the FAA requires all airlines to fly fewer aircraft to maintain the highest levels of safety.

In short, neither the FAA nor United will ever compromise on safety.

Have a great trip, and thank you for choosing United.

Sincerely,​



​

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ScottKirby_Sig_160x160.png
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Scott Kirby
CEO
United Airlines​


 
StarSong said:
I try to fly United because I have one of their CCs. That's why EWR instead of JFK. Also, my destination this time is in NJ.
Other than pandemic time and a couple of years after, I usually go to NY/NJ about once a year. (Twice last year - one for the Little League World Series in PA.) Most of my siblings live in the area, as do the lion's share of my extended family. Lots of friends there, too.

I sometimes fly to JFK, but more often if visiting friends on Long Island, I'll take Southwest and puddle jump into Islip. Nice little airport.
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You made a good choice. I flew for United for 33 years. Hope you have a great flight.
 
I have canceled my flights and don’t intend to fly for a long time. It’s interesting that we never had these problems until recently.
 

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