Organic?? foods

[Alligatorob]

I know this topic has been discussed before, and a lot of people use the descriptor "organic" to mean more naturally grown or processed foods. My chemistry taught me that organic simply means a carbon based compound, making DDT or PCBs organic.

However I recently stumbled across this, and have a hard time accepting chalk as organic. I know it is calcium carbonate, a carbon containing material, and it is derived from living organisms, mostly millions of years old. Still it just doesn't seem logically organic to me.

Chalkovsky Premium Edible Chalk - Natural Chalk for Eating https://www.amazon.com/Chalkovsky-Premium-Edible-Chalk-Impurities/dp/B08W9PXT88?ref_=ast_sto_dp​

 

[oldaunt]

Chalk is merely compressed shells of once-living organisms. Its as organic as rock. Some processing may add non-organic substance to it.

 

[Tommy]

Still it just doesn't seem logically organic to me.

I believe your logic is correct, Rob. As I recall, an organic chemical contains covalently bonded carbon and hydrogen atoms. Calcium carbonate contains no hydrogen atoms.

 

[helenbacque]

An over-used descriptor to justify selling at a higher than normal price.

 

[Flarbalard]

What I remember most about being a freshman in college was each discipline had to define the terms it used. That is what most 101 level courses seemed to be about. What organic in chemistry means isn't exactly what the word means in horticulture. You need to define your terms first, otherwise this is just a waste of time. My opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[jimintoronto]

A joke.......How do you turn ordinary bananas into "organic bananas " ? Tie a bit of purple ribbon around them.

I once had occasion to be in a large grocery warehouse, which had a huge temperature controlled walk in room, that ripened green bananas by circulating some kind of a gas that speeded up the ripening process. The bananas were flown in from Central America by air to Toronto as very green bananas, and then ripened here. JimB.

 

[Alligatorob]

I believe your logic is correct, Rob. As I recall, an organic chemical contains covalently bonded carbon and hydrogen atoms. Calcium carbonate contains no hydrogen atoms.

Thanks Tommy, after reading your post I looked it up in Wikipedia and found:

In chemistry, organic compounds are generally any chemical compounds that contain carbon-hydrogen bonds. Due to carbon's ability to catenate (form chains with other carbon atoms), millions of organic compounds are known. The study of the properties, reactions, and syntheses of organic compounds comprise the discipline known as organic chemistry. For historical reasons, a few classes of carbon-containing compounds (e.g., carbonate salts and cyanide salts), along with a few other exceptions (e.g., carbon dioxide), are not classified as organic compounds and are considered inorganic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound

I would guess that calcium carbonate (CaCO3) is excluded because of no carbon-hydrogen bonds and perhaps under the carbon dioxide exclusion. So I believe you are right.

What organic in chemistry means isn't exactly what the word means in horticulture. You need to define your terms first

You are right of course. Non-chemists often have other definitions and usages for the term organic. Problem is there is not clear definition of that, it varies from group or person to group or person.

An over-used descriptor to justify selling at a higher than normal price.

Yep, I agree!

More broadly, don't bother buying organic.

I agree, you really don't know what you are getting or if it is in anyway better for you. I try to buy local when I can, or better yet grow or catch it myself.

ripened green bananas by circulating some kind of a gas that speeded up the ripening process.

Ethylene (an actually organic compound) https://extension.umaine.edu/fruit/...ruits/the-role-of-ethylene-in-fruit-ripening/

 

[chic]

I've eaten organic food for years and by now I tell even by the taste if something is organic or not.

 

[Alligatorob]

I've eaten organic food for years and by now I tell even by the taste if something is organic or not.

That is interesting, how would you describe the difference? Mostly freshness or something else?