Poland to be 1st NATO member to give Ukraine fighter jets

SeniorBen

SeniorBen

Senior Member
Poland’s president said Thursday that his country plans to give Ukraine around a dozen MiG-29 fighter jets, which would make it the first NATO member to fulfill the Ukrainian government’s increasingly urgent requests for warplanes.

President Andrzej Duda said Poland would hand over four of the Soviet-made warplanes “within the next few days” and that the rest needed servicing and would be supplied later. The Polish word he used to describe their number can mean between 11 and 19.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/poland-ukraine-fighter-jets-first-nato-member-rcna75281

Ukraine kind of reminds me of Israel in the late 1940s and '50s, fighting for survival and pleading for arms. I think it was France that provided them with aircraft and other arms until the 1960s when the U.S. started helping.
 

I think Poland’s attempt to escalate the war may be a terrible mistake. I understand that Slovakia is also going to be sending MiGs to Russia. This will widen the war and may force Russia to step up their game plan.
 
Been There said:
I think Poland’s attempt to escalate the war may be a terrible mistake. I understand that Slovakia is also going to be sending MiGs to Russia. This will widen the war and may force Russia to step up their game plan.
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The question I'm asking is not posed as a challenge to your opinion. I'm simply looking for more explanation of your view or that of anyone else who wants to weigh in on either side of the situation with the jets.

If someone doesn't give Ukraine the jets what would you recommend doing instead?

I keep going round and round with this. I want to help the Ukrainian people win and I think a defeated Russia would be good for the world. But the logical side of my brain keeps telling me that the US cannot afford to keep up this effort indefinitely.

I"ll stop there for now.
 

I'm not sure how fighter jets will help since Russia is mainly using long and short range missiles to attack Ukraine. But, I guess it's good to have the fighter jets as a deterrent.

That said, the only thing that's going to stop this mess is the elimination of Putin. The ICC issued an arrest warrant for Putin over war crimes. He'll no longer be able to travel freely.
 
SeniorBen said:
I'm not sure how fighter jets will help
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That is a good question. I have read that they may make little difference, Ukraine is doing a pretty good job of defending itself from air attack using sophisticated antiaircraft weapons and that the jets will make little difference. The Russians have similar antiaircraft capabilities so it will be hard for the Ukraine to use the jets offensively.

If they were getting modern NATO jets it might be a different story.
 
They're giving them Russian MIGs so they should have pilots and support staff ready to go. I don't think this is the escalation many think it could be. It's not a massive number and will help in some areas or in some battles.
 
WhatInThe said:
They're giving them Russian MIGs so they should have pilots and support staff ready to go. I don't think this is the escalation many think it could be. It's not a massive number and will help in some areas or in some battles.
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I agree. And I'm glad that it's Poland who's providing the fighter planes. The US intends to also, but US military jets are technologically advanced, so Ukrainian pilots will need months of training. I heard they've begun training in England, or somewhere in the UK. Meanwhile, Poland's jets will serve them well, and not only that, this will take some wind out of Putin's propaganda that the war in Ukraine is totally an American thing. He's gonna have to go back to saying "it's a NATO thing" ....again.
 
If Russia sends in bombers, the fighter jets will come in handy and just having them will act as a deterrent.
 
Slovakia to donate 13 MiG-29 warplanes to Ukraine
Slovakia will donate 13 MiG-29 warplanes to Ukraine, its prime minister has said, making it the second Nato member to announce such a shipment in 24 hours, after a similar move by Poland.

It remains to be seen how much the jets will help Ukraine stop Russia’s assaults and break its defensive lines in the counteroffensive expected this spring. Ukraine has asked for modern Typhoons and F-16s; the MiGs it is getting are 30 years old.

Slovakia’s prime minister, Eduard Heger, told a news conference on Friday that his government was “on the right side of history” as he announced it would hand over its fleet of 13 Soviet-era MiGs.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/ukraine-slovakia-to-donate-13-mig-29-warplanes
 
Announced this week; The International Criminal Court in Hague has issued an arrest warrant for Russian President, Vladimir Putin. The charges are Deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children to Russia (international abduction of children) and Destruction of civilian infrastructure in Ukraine.
 
Murrmurr said:
Announced this week; The International Criminal Court in Hague has issued an arrest warrant for Russian President, Vladimir Putin. The charges are Deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children to Russia (international abduction of children) and Destruction of civilian infrastructure in Ukraine.
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A step in the right direction is to speak out and acknowledge evil's existence. Hopefully this will have a tangible effect and go beyond the academic.
 
Nathan said:
A step in the right direction is to speak out and acknowledge evil's existence. Hopefully this will have a tangible effect and go beyond the academic.
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That would be great, wouldn't it? If it at least empowers or inspires dissidents in Russia, that'd be a crucial second step, imo. That has the potential to create unbelievable momentum.
 
Myrtle said:
The question I'm asking is not posed as a challenge to your opinion. I'm simply looking for more explanation of your view or that of anyone else who wants to weigh in on either side of the situation with the jets.



I"ll stop there for now.
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WhatInThe said:
They're giving them Russian MIGs so they should have pilots and support staff ready to go. I don't think this is the escalation many think it could be. It's not a massive number and will help in some areas or in some battles.
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Ukraine can’t fly all the planes they have now due to lack of pilots, jet fuel, mechanics and spare parts. What Ukraine does have and will be getting from Poland is 30 year old technology.

Russia has many more planes and bigger equipment than Ukraine has, including the Su-57 fighter and the Tu-160 bomber, which supposedly is the fastest bomber in the world, although I find that questionable. Russia also has a 3-4 times the larger Army.

I am kind of amazed that this war has gone on as long as it has. I think Putin believed that if he could shut down their largest cities, Ukraine would be forced into surrendering. That didn’t happen
 
seadoug said:
I can see why Poland would do this because if Russia takes Ukraine, Putin may become so emboldened and demented that Poland could be next in his sights.
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I don't think that will happen. I mean he's not crazy like Hitler was or anything. He's been In power a long time. He doesn't want a NATO nation on Russia's border. That is the issue here and the U.S. and U.K. want exactly that.
 
Been There said:
Ukraine can’t fly all the planes they have now due to lack of pilots, jet fuel, mechanics and spare parts. What Ukraine does have and will be getting from Poland is 30 year old technology.

Russia has many more planes and bigger equipment than Ukraine has, including the Su-57 fighter and the Tu-160 bomber, which supposedly is the fastest bomber in the world, although I find that questionable. Russia also has a 3-4 times the larger Army.

I am kind of amazed that this war has gone on as long as it has. I think Putin believed that if he could shut down their largest cities, Ukraine would be forced into surrendering. That didn’t happen
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This war has decimated Putin's military. Because of the total arms embargo imposed by the U.S., Europe, and allied nations, Russia has resorted to acquiring arms from Iran. That alone is well worth the money we've spent arming Ukraine.
 
chic said:
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I don't think that will happen. I mean he's not crazy like Hitler was or anything. He's been In power a long time. He doesn't want a NATO nation on Russia's border. That is the issue here and the U.S. and U.K. want exactly that.
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Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia all sit on Russia's border and are all members of NATO.
 
While Putin's movements may appear to be limited due to the arrest warrant, The Hague isn't the only entity that wants him and he knows this.

Putin sits at table with others that are placed 6 or 7 feet away from him in his own home!
 
SeniorBen said:
Ukraine kind of reminds me of Israel in the late 1940s and '50s, fighting for survival and pleading for arms. I think it was France that provided them with aircraft and other arms until the 1960s when the U.S. started helping.
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I was thinking the same thing that the bravery and determination of Ukraine reminds me of Israel.
 


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