Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
But you are sound enough to get treatment, therapy and medication when you need it, yes?
Should we have shut down those state psychiatric hospitals?
- Thread starter fuzzybuddy
- Start date
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
Ah yes, give those homeless in the streets and alleys enough money to buy a computer. Drug dealers will love you for it.
BTW I worked with a Cambodian refugee who came here young and penniless. The company I worked for sent him to a night class to learn English. I never knew him when he wasn‘t enrolled in a night class. Last I heard he was supervising the computer systems for a large west coast power company and owned two houses.
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
Just to clarify, all the city councilmen got new computers. The former residents of my psychiatric facility got homeless and a handful of bupkis. (and I got unemployed)
Today, homeless people get free phones and internet service....you know, to stay in touch with those drug dealers.
Gardenlover
The world needs more love
How is care for the mentally ill any different from the needs of the physically ill, or elderly? Sadly the mentally ill are looked upon in a much more negative manner.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
San Francisco and California want to care for the mentally ill. They were sued out of the hospitals based on the belief and claims by those incarcerated that they were being unconstitutionally held against their will. The halfway houses were created on their behalf. They were free to leave, and did. There is a new campaign underway to help them. Good luck with that.How is care for the mentally ill any different from the needs of the physically ill, or elderly? Sadly the mentally ill are looked upon in a much more negative manner.
After 4
But, those with deep mental issues and needed 24/7 care were also released and told to report to a regional clinic until a decision on their condition was made otherwise. It was supposed to be a money saving project. Not all ideas that the powers to be turn out to be great ideas. Closing these hospitals went on for about 20 years. Why weren’t they able to tell earlier that this was a bad idea and stopped the closings?
After 4 years of Carter, Satan could have been declared a Saint. I agree, as it has worked out closing the psychiatric hospitals turned out to be a good and bad idea. In some ways, patients that would have spent a lifetime in a psychiatric hospital finally had an opportunity to be released back into society under conditions.Yep, that's who I referred to above. (How he's become such a "saint" to some, I'll never understand.
But, those with deep mental issues and needed 24/7 care were also released and told to report to a regional clinic until a decision on their condition was made otherwise. It was supposed to be a money saving project. Not all ideas that the powers to be turn out to be great ideas. Closing these hospitals went on for about 20 years. Why weren’t they able to tell earlier that this was a bad idea and stopped the closings?
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I was on the Governor’s security team during Duck Thornburg’s years. Not all 8 years, thank God. I could hardly stand doing the 1 year I got stuck with. Talk about a boring job, that’s one of them for sure.
When President Carter toured 3-Mile Island after the accident, along with Governor Thornburg, the two of them made sure they were well protected. There were numerous death threats made on both of them and that was the reason why we carried rifles besides our pistols.
What the news also didn’t report were the number of arrests we made on men trying to get onto the island using row boats in the middle of the night. One group had 5 sticks of dynamite in their boat. We didn’t know what their plan was for having it.
When President Carter toured 3-Mile Island after the accident, along with Governor Thornburg, the two of them made sure they were well protected. There were numerous death threats made on both of them and that was the reason why we carried rifles besides our pistols.
What the news also didn’t report were the number of arrests we made on men trying to get onto the island using row boats in the middle of the night. One group had 5 sticks of dynamite in their boat. We didn’t know what their plan was for having it.
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
I have to say that in PA, the mental health community ( patients, loved ones, pro- patient groups) were sold a truck load of promises. The state was going to get out of the mental health business by closing down the state hospitals. And to be fair to the hospitals, they were not the 1894 warehouses they used to be. Then everybody would live happily ever after in a wonderful group home. Plus, the group homes would be funded by all the money that went to the mental hospitals.
Patients were released to group homes without any supervision, they were on their own. And these patients were in a mental. hospital because they couldn't be on their own. So, they began to fill up the jails for being mentally ill and being in the community. And the money to staff and fund these group homes, well, that's "in committee", which is politician speak for three days after eternity. In short, it's cheaper to keep the mentally ill in jail than in a hospital with doctors and nurses, patients' rights, ethics, etc. And it's even cheaper to let them roam the streets.
The fact is that, as a nation, we only care about our fellow citizens if it doesn't cost much, otherwise, as long as they stay over 'there'.
Patients were released to group homes without any supervision, they were on their own. And these patients were in a mental. hospital because they couldn't be on their own. So, they began to fill up the jails for being mentally ill and being in the community. And the money to staff and fund these group homes, well, that's "in committee", which is politician speak for three days after eternity. In short, it's cheaper to keep the mentally ill in jail than in a hospital with doctors and nurses, patients' rights, ethics, etc. And it's even cheaper to let them roam the streets.
The fact is that, as a nation, we only care about our fellow citizens if it doesn't cost much, otherwise, as long as they stay over 'there'.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
Bottom line, by what authority do you lock up the mentally deranged in what amounts to a snake pit of a prison? So the well meaning establishment of community half way house where they can receive treatment and be reintroduced to society. Only it often doesn’t work and they wind up living on the street.
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Mr. Ed
Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
- Location
- Central NY
Blaze Duskdreamer
Member
Huge, huge mistake. And I do come from the perspective of having a sister who landed in one (which now claims they didn't take children though they took her at 13 but it's also written history aka inaccurate as it's been closed for decades and is now an attraction as an abandoned mental hospital so not even put to good use, either the lands or building).
I don't know about other states but in NY, you couldn't commit without a hearing if the patient fought said committment. They then had to prove they could function and function standards were low - not a danger to themselves or others - which I think an apt standard. If they're not a danger to themselves and others, they shouldn't be locked up against their will. But if they are, yikes, yes, especially on the others part but I'd say even on themselves. We don't let people just kill themselves or shouldn't. Sorry, Canada, but opening up your euthansia to the mentally ill, that's just effed up.
As cruel as it is to commit someone against their will when they truly can't function to that low standard of not a danger, it's far crueler not to. How by any stretch of the imagination is it more humane for them to be homeless and/or in and out of jail. As for those who do function when properly medicated, let it be documented that they can and will still take that medicine in order to be free, let them go through steps to demonstrate that they are functional and willing to comply.
My sister? We've no idea if she's dead or alive and if alive where she is or how she's faring. She'd have turned 70 this past April so that's borderline for old age (with apologes to those of you who are there or past what I'm calling borderline; may you live to enjoy another 20 or 30 great years, more power to you). We've just no idea because tossing her to the streets was preferrable.
My sister was scary af. At 10, my mother had purchased some kind of stove top deep fryer and was proud of being able to make homemade french fries that for once made us kids love something she made as she was a horrible cook. But I got to watch my sister trying to shove her hand in the boiling grease.
I watched helpless as my 15 year old sister and mother struggled with her having grabbed my mother's arm when she tossed in the strips of potato. I've no idea how long this actually went on while I was frozen in fear as she pushed my mother's hand towards the boiling greae with all her might and my mother pushed back with all hers. It seems forever before my mother was finally able to shove her back and away and shaking turned off the heat under the pot but that might have been the perception of a scared 10 year old.
This sister tied me up and gagged me when I was four. She's imprisoned me in a baby carriage at I'm unsure at what age because it's my earliest memory. Shut me in it then snapped the mosquito netting and held it tight against my toddler hands who could not hope to fight off her five years older. I remember clawing at the netting trying to escape.
We can deny it all we want but crazy people are scary because they are crazy and there's utterly no telling what they will do. That said, hold a hearing and determine if they're a danger to themselves or others. A girl who tied up and gagged her little sister or shut her in a baby carriage and who regularly went upside people's heads with her metal roller skates and tried to shove her mother's hand in boiling grease is clearly a danger. Her committment was justified. She should not have been released.
I have mixed views on Reagan but he definitely dropped the ball on this one. Big time.
I don't know about other states but in NY, you couldn't commit without a hearing if the patient fought said committment. They then had to prove they could function and function standards were low - not a danger to themselves or others - which I think an apt standard. If they're not a danger to themselves and others, they shouldn't be locked up against their will. But if they are, yikes, yes, especially on the others part but I'd say even on themselves. We don't let people just kill themselves or shouldn't. Sorry, Canada, but opening up your euthansia to the mentally ill, that's just effed up.
As cruel as it is to commit someone against their will when they truly can't function to that low standard of not a danger, it's far crueler not to. How by any stretch of the imagination is it more humane for them to be homeless and/or in and out of jail. As for those who do function when properly medicated, let it be documented that they can and will still take that medicine in order to be free, let them go through steps to demonstrate that they are functional and willing to comply.
My sister? We've no idea if she's dead or alive and if alive where she is or how she's faring. She'd have turned 70 this past April so that's borderline for old age (with apologes to those of you who are there or past what I'm calling borderline; may you live to enjoy another 20 or 30 great years, more power to you). We've just no idea because tossing her to the streets was preferrable.
My sister was scary af. At 10, my mother had purchased some kind of stove top deep fryer and was proud of being able to make homemade french fries that for once made us kids love something she made as she was a horrible cook. But I got to watch my sister trying to shove her hand in the boiling grease.
I watched helpless as my 15 year old sister and mother struggled with her having grabbed my mother's arm when she tossed in the strips of potato. I've no idea how long this actually went on while I was frozen in fear as she pushed my mother's hand towards the boiling greae with all her might and my mother pushed back with all hers. It seems forever before my mother was finally able to shove her back and away and shaking turned off the heat under the pot but that might have been the perception of a scared 10 year old.
This sister tied me up and gagged me when I was four. She's imprisoned me in a baby carriage at I'm unsure at what age because it's my earliest memory. Shut me in it then snapped the mosquito netting and held it tight against my toddler hands who could not hope to fight off her five years older. I remember clawing at the netting trying to escape.
We can deny it all we want but crazy people are scary because they are crazy and there's utterly no telling what they will do. That said, hold a hearing and determine if they're a danger to themselves or others. A girl who tied up and gagged her little sister or shut her in a baby carriage and who regularly went upside people's heads with her metal roller skates and tried to shove her mother's hand in boiling grease is clearly a danger. Her committment was justified. She should not have been released.
I have mixed views on Reagan but he definitely dropped the ball on this one. Big time.