Striking back in relationships, (no not physically obviously)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
An odd thread title for a relationship thread, BUT, (there's always a but! :) ), if your experience in whatever relationship it might be, is one of being ignored or shunned, and as far as I'm aware being treated in that way denies you the interaction all human beings need, ("No man is an island" I was told at school, and all that stuff, was it said by John Dunne?), then we're being denied life aren't we(?).

We're now in an age where we can spout our views to folks across the world with ease, (as we've been able to do for maybe twenty years or so), and yet at the same time so many seem to have difficulties in interpersonal relationships, maybe more so than in previous generations, so what if anything may be done about it we might agree upon?

Here is my idea, for those of you totally shunned in circumstances where you feel you couldn't have done much differently in the past, leading to your becoming shunned and estranged, my idea is to find a way to "strike back"!!!!!

You don't think you wish to strike back against someone you love, (or should live, like maybe your own child), but if all trying to behave as though you'll always be there for them gets you disrespect, being shunned more completely, what then can you do, carry on failing as you have for over twenty years, or try something else?

Folks here on the forum don't seem to agree with the idea of calling for respecting elders, and giving legal rights to decent parents sometimes beyond the child's interests, so that ideas out as a way of "striking back", so what's left?

All I can think of is returning the negative behaviour shown towards you to your own child, so that in that way they get some idea what being shunned feels like, (should you live long enough for the opportunity to shun them appear, when they condescendingly allow you a modicum of attention).

Sorry, that's the best I can come up with, strike back at those denying your humanity, and try to assist others similarly shunned. :(
 

Why not just show up at the kid's place once a month just to ask how he's doing? Don't stay long. Just listen and leave. Maybe say it's good seeing you or something similar before you step off. Of course if the kid is still immature and abusive make it once every six months.
 
This paragraph I'm guessing is directed towards striking back at an adult child that shows negative behavior towards you.

Quote
"All I can think of is returning the negative behavior shown towards you to your own child, so that in that way they get some idea what being shunned feels like, (should you live long enough for the opportunity to shun them appear, when they condescendingly allow you a modicum of attention)."

As difficult as it might be as the parent [you]. A simple thank you for whatever that attention is/was will be taking the higher road. Leave it at that and continue to live your best life free of what you can't control.

Do you think striking back reaffirms whatever caused the animosity?
 
Gaer said:
Forgive and get over it. "Getting back at someone" is rather childish, don't you think?
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In a world where the interests of one (the offspring) always trumps the interests the other, (the parent), then we're dealing with a "dog eat dog" situation aren't we, childish or not, (Vanessa Pupavac has written a paper about "Infantilised Citizenship" in the UK, where she describes the lack of any legal "statuary" rights in the UK contravening human rights, so if shes to be believed this backs up my argument I believe).
 
Murrmurr said:
"All I can think of is returning the negative behaviour shown towards you to your own child, so that in that way they get some idea what being shunned feels like"

That's not going to work. Your child will only know how you've made her feel, and she certainly won't feel loved. She'll feel like you don't even want to be around her.
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Nothing works though, in a legal framework such as currently in place, "someone else" gets to decide your worth as a parent, and once you surrender the right to say what you wish or decide needs to be said to your own child. Even as a decent loving parent, you've surrendered your relationship with your child by doing this, as they have maybe done due to pressures exerted upon them, telling them "the child's (i.e. their) interests always come before the interests of others", that message is not benign in my view.
"Its a cruel world" when you encounter family law post divorce or separation, hence my suggestions may be all there is.
I doubt all the policies being promoted by so many fathers rights groups will improve matters eithrr, because "Equal Parenting" in my view means two people/parents trying to fulfill the same role, and shared parenting with someone you can no longer live with, and knows exactly how to make your life a nightmare or create difficulties, isn't a recipe for a peaceful, sustainable situation in my view.
 
Knight said:
This paragraph I'm guessing is directed towards striking back at an adult child that shows negative behavior towards you. Quote "All I can think of is returning the negative behavior shown towards you to your own child, so that in that way they get some idea what being shunned feels like, (should you live long enough for the opportunity to shun them appear, when they condescendingly allow you a modicum of attention)." As difficult as it might be as the parent [you]. A simple thank you for whatever that attention is/was will be taking the higher road. Leave it at that and continue to live your best life free of what you can't control.
Do you think striking back reaffirms whatever caused the animosity?
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I think there is a lot in what you say, and striking back may do as you say. Some fathers do nonetheless choose to shun those who have shunned them, and I'd say its unfortunate, but in the situation I've faced and not done till now, (twenty five years on from being forced out and failed due to lack of support), maybe I'm the fool(?).
Some do manage to act as you suggest I'd guess, (in fact I've met those who have come through the family law system, overcome the difficulties etc., and some even attended meetings and protests about family law with their now grown up children they've got together with again).
However the role of parent you're putting forward isn't the "loving role" some of us choose for ourselves and our child, even should it be doomed to fail if not supported by those in authority, and "social norms" mean your freedom to behave as you see fit isn't supported either, (I accept those doing as you suggest may be loving in their own way though).
 
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grahamg said:
There hasn't been a poll, (of course), but if you're suggesting you do support my call for parental rights sometimes beyond the child's interests, I believe you are unique on this forum in the years I've been posting about these issues, (about four years!). :)
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Well, when you said:
grahamg said:
Folks here on the forum don't seem to agree with the idea of calling for respecting elders, and giving legal rights to decent parents sometimes beyond the child's interests, so that ideas out as a way of "striking back", so what's left?
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...it sounds to me that you're implying that people on this forum are against respecting elders and giving legal rights to decent parents. Regarding "giving legal rights to decent parents": what does that mean? Legal rights to do what exactly?
Parents already a full range of rights and responsibilities regarding the raising of their children.
 
grahamg said:
You don't think you wish to strike back against someone you love, (or should live, like maybe your own child), but if all trying to behave as though you'll always be there for them gets you disrespect, being shunned more completely, what then can you do, carry on failing as you have for over twenty years, or try something else?
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You sound like you are hurting and feeling melancholy. But, any kind of revenge is not okay and I don't think would make you feel better. If its been over twenty years, and you have not come to an acceptance, it might be worth pursuing some technique that helps a person come to a peaceful acceptance. I'm not sure what that would be, maybe some sort of meditation thing.
 
Nathan said:
...it sounds to me that you're implying that people on this forum are against respecting elders and giving legal rights to decent parents. Regarding "giving legal rights to decent parents": what does that mean? Legal rights to do what exactly? Parents already a full range of rights and responsibilities regarding the raising of their children.
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In the UK there are no legal, (/statuary i.e. written down) rights for any parents, decent or not, so differing situations in some western countries (obviously).
I say people here don't support my views with good reason, someone could check I suppose, but maybe its not necessary because all the fathers rights groups I know of in any country can't seem to call for a "rebuttable presumption in favour of contact", based upon treating decent parents in the manner I'm trying to describe or explain, (meaning the law framed so sometimes there is a requirement to support the parents interests over some government appointed officials view of what's best for the child).
 
HoneyNut said:
You sound like you are hurting and feeling melancholy. But, any kind of revenge is not okay and I don't think would make you feel better. If its been over twenty years, and you have not come to an acceptance, it might be worth pursuing some technique that helps a person come to a peaceful acceptance. I'm not sure what that would be, maybe some sort of meditation thing.
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I've met two fathers (at least), who have enough hurt you might say, or pride certainly, and a feeling of their own self worth, who stated that if their child rejected them in the manner so many children do choose to reject one or other parent, that so far as they were concerned, that would be the end so far as their children ever seeing them again!!!

They just wouldn't put up with being treated in that way, (see the last placard above headed "My promise to my children" about children telling parents they hate them as a reference point). One of those fathers rejected all four of his children because he'd been shunned by them when his marriage split up, and years later when as adults those children tried to make amends he would have none of it.

So when I said in an earlier post "the family court system is a cruel world" I do mean just that, with all kinds of decent parents and grandparents getting a very rough deal, "because their interests do not count" (do they!?). :(
 
grahamg said:
I've met two fathers (at least), who have enough hurt you might say, or pride certainly, and a feeling of their own self worth, who stated that if their child rejected them in the manner so many children do choose to reject one or other parent, that so far as they were concerned, that would be the end so far as their children ever seeing them again!!!

They just wouldn't put up with being treated in that way, (see the last placard above headed "My promise to my children" about children telling parents they hate them as a reference point). One of those fathers rejected all four of his children because he'd been shunned by them when his marriage split up, and years later when as adults those children tried to make amends he would have none of it.

So when I said in an earlier post "the family court system is a cruel world" I do mean just that, with all kinds of decent parents and grandparents getting a very rough deal, "because their interests do not count" (do they!?). :(
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So is the thrust of this thread have to do with coping with being rejected by one's children, resulting from a divorce action? If so, then that is something I can relate to. My ex-wife did her level best to turn the kids against me. It did work, for a while, but eventually my daughter and son figured out what their mother had done. I think we are all pretty much "over" all of that now.
 
Nathan said:
So is the thrust of this thread have to do with coping with being rejected by one's children, resulting from a divorce action? If so, then that is something I can relate to. My ex-wife did her level best to turn the kids against me. It did work, for a while, but eventually my daughter and son figured out what their mother had done. I think we are all pretty much "over" all of that now.
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I think my intention is to suggest its no use being walked all over, even when its your own children doing it, (for whatever reason, and you and I can certainly agree on the main one I think).
 
I had a hard time figuring out what the OP was about. I got that he was unhappy, I just wasn't sure if he was unhappy with the kids, the ex, the courts - or maybe all three?

I don't know if this fits into this discussion, but it's an interesting anecdote on how different generations view divorce.

I thought it was a shame when my sister wanted a divorce in 1987 after 10 yrs of marriage. But they worked it out amicably. In CA it's automatic joint custody - you have to fight if you want sole custody. They bought houses nearby one another - the kids went to elementary/jr high in one school district and to HS in the district next to it.

Our mother huffed and said, "Well, I don't intend on seeing John (the ex) again," since as far as she was concerned, once a family member got divorced the ex was "out of sight, out of mind". Absolutely no longer part of our family. It wasn't that she didn't like him - she liked him just fine. He just didn't "count" any more, to her way of thinking.

I replied, "On the contrary, you're going to see him at every family get-together. He is, after all, the father of my grand-niece and grand-nephew, and happens to be one of our best friends!"

We have a wonderful photo from 2007 of my 80-yr old mother merrily dancing with John at his son/her grandson's wedding.

John and my sister are still friendly, even now that the kids are grown and have kids of their own. His girlfriends are always welcomed as part of our extended family. My sister's more solitary; she fills her life with charitable work and hasn't dated in decades.
 
Murrmurr said:
Graham, if you fault the court then why would you "strike back" at your child? Even if your child was in any way complicit in the court's decision, I urge you to keep the two issues; 1) law, and 2) your relationship with your child; separate.
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I've met people in a similar situation to mine who found everything changed when the ex passed away, BUT, (there's always a "but"!), at some stage you have to accept you are being wilfully shunned, and taken to a fairly extreme level, and as I said in an earlier post I've met fathers who just don't tolerate this kind of thing. Yes I would like to see courts, and family law make the change I've suggested, though how such a change might occur when even fathers groups don't ask for it I believe, (well it isn't likely!).
 


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