The Ukraine

Elyzabeth

Member
Location
Bristol, England
Why should Americans get involved in that situation... in any way????

Why is it in our interests?

America needs to stop being the world policeman and getting involved in other countries skirmishes.

Humanitarian aid.of course...

But, giving them weapons is on the backs of the US taxpayers... why???
 

From all of my reading, the plan to get involved in Ukraine began decades ago. The current Minister of Finance, Natalie Jaresko, was an American working in the embassy there since 1992 when America orchestrated the demise of the Soviet Union and continued on to the years leading up to the coup that toppled the elected Ukraine government in 2013-14 til today. Ms. Jaresko surrendered her American citizenship just around Christmas and minutes later was made Minister of Finance of Ukraine.

Ukraine so far, has been the recipient of $5,000,000,000.00 of tax payers money. Now they are talking about giving them weapons on top of that.

And again, from all the reading that I've done, the goal seems to be to topple Russia as a super power and control the world economy.
 
Well I don't think your administration sees them that way which might explain why no harsh words for the Saudi's as they crash the price of oil which has an impact on your own oil and gas industry. And then there's the growing relationship between China and Russia that is a concern for the WH.


'...You see China has just surpassed the US as the world’s top economy. Its military is by far the largest military in the world though probably not the most sophisticated, yet. But there is no rational mind that argues China will not be the world’s single superpower in a mere 20 years if not sooner. The Western Alliance (which is the collective of Western leaders that have long controlled global policies), however, is not so rational. The central banking cartel along with the Western Alliance are not going down without a fight. ...I see that as where America and the Western Alliance stands today. You see we’ve been barking very loud and putting on an impressive show of strength by taking on very weak challengers since the beginning of the new millennium, however, the real challenger is China. And we’ve all known that for some time. As Wolfensohn discusses it is becoming a now or never reality for the Western Alliance. Either they find a way to contain the impressive beast or they give up their Alpha status. And so here they are in the fight for global control. In that earlier piece I wrote I describe how the Western Alliance is targeting energy, as it is China’s achilles heel. China’s energy source for the future is Russia. Given its economic, military and energy prowess, a Sino-Soviet Alliance will trump the Western Alliance. The objective then is to destroy the Soviet variable before the Sino-Soviet Alliance is fortified. Control China’s energy and you can contain China.'

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...-america-oppressed-people-ruled-others-others

(note: highlites are not mine)
 
Who will know the difference?


So your suggestion is to just let the nuclear powers have at it? Certainly solve human over population issues and I have heard that the wild life is still alive and 'thriving' in the Chernobyl region. I know lots of folks liken humanity to a scourge/disease/ infection upon the planet so I guess that answer would suit them.
 
So your suggestion is to just let the nuclear powers have at it? Certainly solve human over population issues and I have heard that the wild life is still alive and 'thriving' in the Chernobyl region. I know lots of folks liken humanity to a scourge/disease/ infection upon the planet so I guess that answer would suit them.


I'm counting on YOU to fix the entire problem Debby!!!! I tried... I'm at a loss..
 
I'm counting on YOU to fix the entire problem Debby!!!! I tried... I'm at a loss..


Wouldn't it be nice if some person, any person could fix these things with a wave of the hand or snap of the fingers? But the fly in the ointment is that humans are involved and we're not so good at compromising or getting along generally speaking.

Seriously, toying with the possibility of nuclear war is craziness and I can't understand why any politicians might think this is remotely acceptable! I think the one thing we all have a duty to do is to communicate to our representatives that we are very interested in staying alive and not dying in a nuclear firestorm. Remember, not everyone is fortunate enough to be vaporized. Radiation sickness makes the flu look like a cake-walk.
 
From all of my reading, the plan to get involved in Ukraine began decades ago. The current Minister of Finance, Natalie Jaresko, was an American working in the embassy there since 1992 when America orchestrated the demise of the Soviet Union and ....

very interesting statement, but I think that gives too much credit to U.S. Actions but ignores the unsustainable soviet economic strategy.
 
very interesting statement, but I think that gives too much credit to U.S. Actions but ignores the unsustainable soviet economic strategy.


Do you honestly think governments don't plan years ahead? General Wesley Clark speaks of a meeting he had in the halls of the Pentagon, where he's told by another individual about the decision to destabilize the Middle East and the decision to take down various countries in the region. Iran, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Lebanon were mentioned. That was in 1991 and ten years before 9/11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5q9PYy1NoA So any suggestion that 9/11 was the catalyst for American involvement in the ME is highly suspect.

As for the Soviet Union, Ronald Reagan pointedly took aim at the communist Soviet Union. He created the Star Wars program and this was a catalyst for forcing the USSR into a costly arms race that they couldn't afford and that bankrupted the country to the point where in 1991, the system collapsed (and Natalie was in the American embassy in Ukraine from 1992 on).

Then for a time, the crushed country now known as Russia, was an aid recipient until they started getting their economy onto better footing, at which time they began to help other countries with smallish aid packages. They're referred to as an 'emerging donor'.

Personally, I think the turning point in the American attitude towards Russia (whom your administration was keeping tabs on throughout via NGO's) was in 2012 when Russia kicked out all foreign NGO's (non-governmental agencies) out of fear that those groups were clandestinely trying to influence the people/politics in that country. And if I'm not mistaken, the Ukraine's unrest began later in 2013 although Ukraine had been working on a free trade agreement with the EU since 2007. On the verge of signing in 2012, one of the criteria was that Ukraine must free Tymoshenko and one other ex-Ukraine government official, both of whom had been convicted of fraud and embezzlement by Ukrainian courts.

Now I ask you, why would a governing body insist on freeing two criminal government officials who had been convicted of fraud and embezzlement (while in office)? And coincidentally at least one of them (Tymoshenko) was subsequently, intimately involved in 2013-14 with the destruction of the government that she'd been defrauding and then working hand in hand with the coup leaders and America as the restructuring of the government was taking place? I haven't looked since the recent election but maybe she's even still part of the new government.

The Pentagon is neither Republican nor Democrat. It is of little consequence who is in power to the military machine. What is of consequence is that they have 'jobs to do' and in order for that to happen to justify the hoped for promotions, purchasing power, and healthy retirement packages for the top officials.....there must be war. Not only that but there is a support industry that makes the weapons, ammunitions, troop facilities, etc, that has brought to the investors, increase to the tune of 27,000% over the past 50 years. A steady source of 'income' for investors who have no compunction about investing in 'death'. All the lobbyists have to do is make sure that they inoculate ignorant politicians with enough fear and frightening possibilities while holding out the carrot of 'hegemony', and you have a recipe for conflict.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-so...-soaring-costs-of-military-casualties/5388393

So do I think that planning takes place years in advance for conflicts? In some or most cases yes.



'....Ronald Reagan’s determination to destroy communism and the Soviet Union was a hallmark of his eight-year presidency, carried out through a harsh nuclear policy toward Moscow that softened only slightly when Gorbachev came to office.

He is vividly remembered in Russia today as the force that precipitated the Soviet collapse....' http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5145921/n...helping-bring-down-soviet-union/#.VNYH_lpRpcx
 
Debbie , very interesting points

Nice to hear from someone who seem to be so well informed !!!

However, I don't think that America was the causative factor in the destabilization of the Middle East.


It was the in fighting between the Shia and Sunni Muslims, and the extremist elements,

which are responsible... they want to control the Middle East, and beyond !





PS You mentioned General Wesley Clark, he was certainly my choice when he was running for the Presidency a few years ago
 
Thanks Elyzabeth. I would suggest that the American administration is simply taking advantage of traditional hostilities. Parking NGO's in countries at risk and giving support and training to the right people and groups goes a long way to 'getting things going'. The situation in Ukraine before the coup is a case in point. And I'm not alone in the understanding of how things work. Why do you think Russia booted all the foreign NGO's from their country in 2012?

Then there's also the terrorists that have been put in place by the US to fight against Assad. Money and weapons and apparently those terrorists were vetted about as well as Sarah Palin. How that worked out is all to visible now.
 
That's the way the world works..

how many times have we supported the "good guys"

... only to have them turn around and become the bad guys?

The Mujarhardins, of Afghanistan, who we thought were heroes, turned around to become the Taliban.

Taking advantage of political situations...?

That's what all countries do.

Impossible to get a handle on what's really going on.. too twisted and multi dimensional...

AND,

we the public, are never given the whole story or the true picture.

Getting upset about politics,is kind of like spitting into the wind..


However, I do still jump up and down about the injustices of the world !
 


Back
Top