The way a crowd behaves is mysterious

[gruntlabor]

During my training to become an Auxiliary Police Constable here in Toronto in the early 1980's our class was required to attend a day long program on "riot control techniques " one of the primary points that was repeated over and over was.... "Look out for the leaders in the crowd, they will drive the actions of the many ".

Being the kind of person who asks questions, I asked the training SGT what a potential riot leader looks like "? His answer was "the ones at the back, throwing rocks and bottles, using the crowd as a shield , and they will also be the loudest voices ".

The training was simple, all ways leave a potential exit point for the crowd to disperse through. Arrest those who actually attack police officers, and or others. Remove any facial masks or disguises, immediately after they were arrested, and take their photographs while they are being restrained by officers, for future court evidence. Use slow measured steps in the advance, use a second unit, to quietly come up behind the main group and close off the retreat route except for one pathway. Advise the group to "Leave the area or you will be arrested by Police ".

In Canada, Police dogs are not allowed to be used in crowd control measures, but they can be present, but wearing muzzles. Police horses are one of the very bestTT riot/crowd control measures. It is a rare human who will stand still when a 1200 pound horse is moving sideways through a crowd. The mounted officer also has an elevated view over the heads of the crowd, and can report via radio what he sees to his supervisor.

Mounted officers usually work in pairs or fours. Breaking up groups is one tactic amongst many that can be used. The use of less than lethal weapons are restricted in Canada, and in general they will only be deployed as a last resort . Having them present, and clearly evident is a standard tactic to show the crowd what "could happen " if things get too far out of hand . JimB.

Thank you, jimintoronto, that was very instructive.

 

[jimintoronto]

Thank you, jimintoronto, that was very instructive.

You are most welcome. A further point I should have made is that the tactics used vary depending on the nature of the event, and the make up of the crowd. A bunch of drunk youths will be dealt with differently from a hard core terrorist organization, who are armed with bats and are throwing rocks, and burning gasoline bombs.

In the latter case, snatch groups of 4 to 6 officers will suddenly dart out of the main line to grab and drag an individual back into the Police group. The individual was one of the ones who was actively throwing objects, running at the Police line, and by removing that person, the Police have reduced the threat by a few degrees.

Taking out the main actors by arrests is a good way to reduce the willingness of the crowd to continue their actions. It also serves to identify the leaders for future intelligence reports. In any serious riot situation, Police will be using video cameras to identify leaders in the crowd, and for later arrests. In many situations, the ring leaders of a known group are arrested later, after the event has ended and they can be taken into custody at home with no supporters around them. JimB.

 

[KSav]

I've been a victim of a crowd mentality.

I remember years ago when MTV did that Woodstock redo. Someone I knew stated how she would love to go. I said no, it's not going to end well and I was right. Somehow I knew the mob mentality would take over.

There is an entire documentary on the 1999 Woodstock re-do debacle: Music Box: Woodstock 99: Peace, Love, and Rage | Watch the Movie on HBO | HBO.com. I have always thought crowd/mob behavior is fascinating and found this documentary to be very absorbing, and horrifying.

I recall learning about the bystander effect in college; I believe the term was coined after the murder of Kitty Genovese: What Happened to Kitty Genovese

 

[Fyrefox]

Kids, teens, and young adults are especially vulnerable to the group-mind effect. I have seen teens do as part of a group things that they would never dream of doing on their own. When working alone with one notorious individual with quite a history, I was asked by the facility administrator if I would “be alright with her.” No problemo, she was a kitten on a one-to-one basis without her peers. I had my brown belt training in reserve had I needed it as well.

If you take a young child to task for an infraction, they will often turn, point at a peer, and wail “he MADE me do it!” How very young they learn…

 

[feywon]

I learned about that 50 years ago in college in the Introduction to Criminal Justice course.

i originally learned it thru observation while growing up. But my feelings about it validated by course work for my BA.
One of the things i found most interesting was that my experience of knowing you can impact what happens if you speak up soon enough was validated too.

This was also confirmed in Red Cross course i took when i drove for Laramie Senior Center. You counter the apathetic bystander response by being assertive with them--assign people to call 911, direct traffic (foot or vehicle) around the injured person) if they have more than one thing going on direct specific tasks (applying pressure to wound, elevating feet, whatever there problem require) to various individuals.

Easier said than done sometimes because if the individual is conscious you also want to gather info the Dispatcher will need, tho some of it you can get by observation and assessing their condition.

 

[spectratg]

I don't know about crowds, but a mob is a scary thing, proven to have a mind of its own, no leader required.

I read once that you take the average IQ of the people in the mob, and then divide by the number of people in the mob to get the mob's IQ level!

 

[Murrmurr]

The way a crowd behaves is very different from how individuals do. I came across a phenomenon called The Bystander Effect, which means the more people are witness to an incident, the less likely anyone is to help.
A crowd does things individuals would never do.

So it makes you think, is a crowd governed by a kind of collective mind? A chanting crowd becomes a giant voice. Very strange.

Do you feel different in a crowd? All I know is I don't like being in a crowd.

Collective mind? No. I think it's that a crowd feels like a mini-society and the people take cues from "a leader".

I can think of an example:

When I got my nursing license (back in the late 80s), you took a sort of oath, a promise to announce yourself as a nurse in emergency situations, and volunteer to provide aid...in fact, you signed a document saying as much.

I pulled over and jumped out of my car at a crash site once. A lady crashed her SUV and she had 3 kids inside. Some guy sped off to find a phone to call 911 and there was a crowd of 7 or 8 people just standing around doing nothing, waiting for the ambulance. As soon as I ran past them and up to the SUV to see if anyone was injured, other people came up to it, too....and they helped.

When I realized I needed my first-aid kit, I tossed some guy my keys and he immediately ran to get it out of my truck. When I said that the kids could be safely moved, people helped them out of the car and took them a safe distance away. I explained to a lady how to cradle the driver's head and neck, to keep them stable, and gave a guy a sterile bandage and told him to keep pressure on a bleeding wound, and they both did exactly what I said, and kept doing it til EMTs got there.

While the EMTs did their thing, I asked the guy who kept pressure on the driver's wound why everyone was just standing back gawking when I got there, and he said it was because the first person there told everyone that that particular model of SUV always caught fire and exploded in a crash. But when he saw me run right up to it, he thought "Well if that guy can do it, I can do it." And he figured I must know something about those SUVs that the first guy didn't...like maybe their explosiveness was just a rumor, or this one was a different model, or the guy was just full of shite.

I think a crowd basically picks a leader and follows them.

 

[feywon]

Collective mind? No. I think it's that a crowd feels like a mini-society and the people take cues from "a leader".

I can think of an example:

When I got my nursing license (back in the late 80s), you took a sort of oath, a promise to announce yourself as a nurse in emergency situations, and volunteer to provide aid...in fact, you signed a document saying as much.

I pulled over and jumped out of my car at a crash site once. A lady crashed her SUV and she had 3 kids inside. Some guy sped off to find a phone to call 911 and there was a crowd of 7 or 8 people just standing around doing nothing, waiting for the ambulance. As soon as I ran past them and up to the SUV to see if anyone was injured, other people came up to it, too....and they helped.

When I realized I needed my first-aid kit, I tossed some guy my keys and he immediately ran to get it out of my truck. When I said that the kids could be safely moved, people helped them out of the car and took them a safe distance away. I explained to a lady how to cradle the driver's head and neck, to keep them stable, and gave a guy a sterile bandage and told him to keep pressure on a bleeding wound, and they both did exactly what I said, and kept doing it til EMTs got there.

While the EMTs did their thing, I asked the guy who kept pressure on the driver's wound why everyone was just standing back gawking when I got there, and he said it was because the first person there told everyone that that particular model of SUV always caught fire and exploded in a crash. But when he saw me run right up to it, he thought "Well if that guy can do it, I can do it." And he figured I must know something about those SUVs that the first guy didn't...like maybe their explosiveness was just a rumor, or this one was a different model, or the guy was just full of shite.

I think a crowd basically picks a leader and follows them.

Thank you for posting your example this is essentially what we were taught in our Red Cross first aid course that i mentioned in comment #30.

 

[GP44]

They started saying that there was no stigma for being treated for a mental illness.
But the next thing you know Thomas Eagleton was dropped as McGovern’s vice presidential candidate when it was found out that he had been treated for depression.
That shows how people really feel about anyone getting help for a mental problem.
I too was treated for depression in a hospital setting and it helped me immensely.
It gave me a lot healthier outlook on life and I learned life lessons that if they were taught in schools would help a lot of people understand relationships better.
That would save a lot of people the heartache and depression when relationships change.

 

[caramel]

Any group of people can constitute a crowd. Even some people on forums can get together and display pack like behavior, ganging up on some.

As noted earlier in the thread, conformity and acceptance play big roles in crowd behavior.

The Stanford Prison experiment is another example of how people start to lose themselves once they get into a pack. By themselves, they might not have tortured people but in groups, people can do horrifying things and justify it to themselves.

 

[Fyrefox]

Crowd behavior certainly carries over into cults as well, where group-think is common, and the group works hard to maintain and enforce its own belief systems against external realities, defining its own ”facts.” Such cults usually center about a leader, one who tends to be autocratically-styled. Such cults can be quite destructive to its members and even the larger outside society…hmmm!

 

[jimintoronto]

Collective mind? No. I think it's that a crowd feels like a mini-society and the people take cues from "a leader".

I can think of an example:

When I got my nursing license (back in the late 80s), you took a sort of oath, a promise to announce yourself as a nurse in emergency situations, and volunteer to provide aid...in fact, you signed a document saying as much.

I pulled over and jumped out of my car at a crash site once. A lady crashed her SUV and she had 3 kids inside. Some guy sped off to find a phone to call 911 and there was a crowd of 7 or 8 people just standing around doing nothing, waiting for the ambulance. As soon as I ran past them and up to the SUV to see if anyone was injured, other people came up to it, too....and they helped.

When I realized I needed my first-aid kit, I tossed some guy my keys and he immediately ran to get it out of my truck. When I said that the kids could be safely moved, people helped them out of the car and took them a safe distance away. I explained to a lady how to cradle the driver's head and neck, to keep them stable, and gave a guy a sterile bandage and told him to keep pressure on a bleeding wound, and they both did exactly what I said, and kept doing it til EMTs got there.

While the EMTs did their thing, I asked the guy who kept pressure on the driver's wound why everyone was just standing back gawking when I got there, and he said it was because the first person there told everyone that that particular model of SUV always caught fire and exploded in a crash. But when he saw me run right up to it, he thought "Well if that guy can do it, I can do it." And he figured I must know something about those SUVs that the first guy didn't...like maybe their explosiveness was just a rumor, or this one was a different model, or the guy was just full of shite.

I think a crowd basically picks a leader and follows them.

Stats about vehicle fires, following a collision...Less than 3 percent result in a vehicle fire. Hollywood movies are responsible for making the general public THINK it is much more common than it actually is.

 

[gruntlabor]

Crowd behavior certainly carries over into cults as well, where group-think is common, and the group works hard to maintain and enforce its own belief systems against external realities, defining its own ”facts.” Such cults usually center about a leader, one who tends to be autocratically-styled. Such cults can be quite destructive to its members and even the larger outside society…hmmm!

Yes, crowds, groups, cults, mobs.

Or tribes, townsfolk, family --the ones we know and trust. They're just taking care of business.

If you're above average IQ, you're lucky, but it's not that big a deal in a pinch. The herd mentality, communication, is what humanity is all about.

 

[Murrmurr]

Stats about vehicle fires, following a collision...Less than 3 percent result in a vehicle fire. Hollywood movies are responsible for making the general public THINK it is much more common than it actually is.

Ford made an SUV that had a reputation for collision combustion. If I remember right, it was called the Windstar, but everyone called it the Firestar....and that's what this poor lady was driving.

The accident wasn't even a collision; hers was the only vehicle involved. It rolled a couple times and wound up off the road, up-right in a field of very dry grass, but there was no fire. There was smoke coming off the engine, no surprise, and I suppose that looked scary above all that dry grass.

The Windstar had issues (Ford did at least one safety-recall) but engine fires wasn't one of them.