This questionnaire on parenting deserves its own thread,...

grahamg

Old codger
I posted this questionnaire on another thread but felt it needed or deserved its own thread as it was being ignored, (the answers and views given are not my own though I'd endorse them);

" Q: “Why does everyone just assume that parents deserve respect?”

A: They don’t. They are just sloppy about telling you that you must respect your parents STATUS as your parents, as a part of the structure of society. They don’t “deserve” that, it comes with the job, so to speak. It’s like the fact that you don’t DESERVE to have whatever eye color you do: you just have it.

Q: “ Aren't you supposed to respect to be respected?”

A: No. Each kind of respect is entirely separate from the other kind. If someone SHOULD respect you, but they do not, that doesn’t mean that you should not respect them, as a sort of punishment or revenge. It means instead that you need to deal with them differently than you would with people who DO show you the correct respect. This is a part of the overall idea that if it is wrong to be disrespectful, it is wrong to be so whether someone else is or not. Just as if it is wrong to steal, it is wrong to steal even from a thief.

Q: “What should you do if your parents don't respect you, but think they deserve your respect?”

A: This is not possible to answer without knowing the details, especially since I can’t tell whether you have used the term “respect” correctly and consistently here. It may or may not be true, that your parents are behaving inconsistently with you. But having been both a child and a parent, I know first hand, that many times, this sort of thing is a matter of the details, and is more often misunderstood, than is correctly understood. Again, see the above description of how sloppy most people are about word usages.

Q: “Also, does respect mean obey everything they say?”

A: No, and yes. Again, there is more than one meaning to the word respect involved, but even more to the point, the reasons why you must obey, most of the time, isn’t connected to respect of the “looking up to them” kind, it is connected to the respect of the role that the parents play in your life.

It’s the same as a relationship with an external authority, such as a teacher, or an employer. You don’t have to “respect” your boss or your instructor as a human being, before you have to obey their instructions to you. The two things have nothing to do with each other."

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-ever...so-does-respect-mean-obey-everything-they-say

Parent picture.1.jpg
 

Respect is NOT automatically given. It must be EARNED. There are people in this world, highly placed people, with whom I wouldn't shake hands. Even if they offered me their hand.
 
Respect is NOT automatically given. It must be EARNED. There are people in this world, highly placed people, with whom I wouldn't shake hands. Even if they offered me their hand.
As far as your comment goes, the thread OP was the end of a fairly long explanation I'd quoted elsewhere on the forum giving a comprehensive rebuttal of the argument you've made, (see below).
Btw I'm not any more enamoured of those who might be called "boorish parents", (ones you might find it difficult to respect), than I imagine anyone else might be, but am reluctant to criticise others too much, as I probably couldn't or wouldn't want to replace them in their children's lives.

Here is the rebuttal I mentioned:

"I’m sure you don’t realize it, but you are dealing with several separate structures of authority here, rather than one single one, and that is the cause of your consternation and confusion.

There are always AT LEAST two reasons to respect other people. One reason for the fact that they are people, due at least as much respect as you are, and the other is because of whatever status or position they hold.

Your parents are due respect both as other human beings, and they are also due a different kind of respect because they are your parents. In addition to that, chances are good that at least while you are living with them, they also hold the status of owners of the household, which is yet again another position due respect in other ways.

Although you will often hear people say that “respect must be earned,” most people who do say so out loud, actually don’t know what they are talking about. Quite literally, don’t know. Because it is true that SOME kinds of respect must be earned, but it is not true that ALL kinds of respect must be earned.

And in addition, when it comes to “losing respect,” things get complicated as well. At no time, can you ever say that someone should lose the respect they deserve simply for being a fellow human being. Never. Someone might lose respect for being an HONEST human being, but that is a separate kind of respect again.

Another confusion you may have, is with what the term “respect” actually means in each situation you mention. Because it is unfortunately true, that most people speak fairly sloppily, and use terms such as “respect” incorrectly, thus making for even more confusion.

One of the most common ways where people misapply the term “respect,” is when it comes to areas of cooperation or obedience. Many people say “you must show respect,” when what they really ought to say is “you must obey,” and so many people, especially children, get the idea that respect is all about one person having power over another. This is extra annoying, because one of the primary implied meanings of the word “respect,” is “look up to and think highly of,” which doesn’t always fit in with situations where a person must submit to authorities with whom they disagree."
 

As far as your comment goes, the thread OP was the end of a fairly long explanation I'd quoted elsewhere on the forum giving a comprehensive rebuttal of the argument you've made, (see below).
Btw I'm not any more enamoured of those who might be called "boorish parents", (ones you might find it difficult to respect), than I imagine anyone else might be, but am reluctant to criticise others too much, as I probably couldn't or wouldn't want to replace them in their children's lives.

Here is the rebuttal I mentioned:

"I’m sure you don’t realize it, but you are dealing with several separate structures of authority here, rather than one single one, and that is the cause of your consternation and confusion.

There are always AT LEAST two reasons to respect other people. One reason for the fact that they are people, due at least as much respect as you are, and the other is because of whatever status or position they hold.

Your parents are due respect both as other human beings, and they are also due a different kind of respect because they are your parents. In addition to that, chances are good that at least while you are living with them, they also hold the status of owners of the household, which is yet again another position due respect in other ways.

Although you will often hear people say that “respect must be earned,” most people who do say so out loud, actually don’t know what they are talking about. Quite literally, don’t know. Because it is true that SOME kinds of respect must be earned, but it is not true that ALL kinds of respect must be earned.

And in addition, when it comes to “losing respect,” things get complicated as well. At no time, can you ever say that someone should lose the respect they deserve simply for being a fellow human being. Never. Someone might lose respect for being an HONEST human being, but that is a separate kind of respect again.

Another confusion you may have, is with what the term “respect” actually means in each situation you mention. Because it is unfortunately true, that most people speak fairly sloppily, and use terms such as “respect” incorrectly, thus making for even more confusion.

One of the most common ways where people misapply the term “respect,” is when it comes to areas of cooperation or obedience. Many people say “you must show respect,” when what they really ought to say is “you must obey,” and so many people, especially children, get the idea that respect is all about one person having power over another. This is extra annoying, because one of the primary implied meanings of the word “respect,” is “look up to and think highly of,” which doesn’t always fit in with situations where a person must submit to authorities with whom they disagree."
I will not go into any detail about my personal childhood, but suffice to say that some parents are child abusers. They beat, emotionally humiliate, starve, and generally make the lives of their children "Hell on Earth". Surely, you do not contend that those parents deserve any respect ?
 
I will not go into any detail about my personal childhood, but suffice to say that some parents are child abusers. They beat, emotionally humiliate, starve, and generally make the lives of their children "Hell on Earth". Surely, you do not contend that those parents deserve any respect ?
The comments above (those you're responding to), are not my own, so all I can do is give you my position, but not answer why the person I've quoted believed anyone saying "A parent has to earn respect from their child" may be wrong.
If there is a good reason to reject a parent, or shun a parent, then the disrespect a child might wish to show them can be justified obviously.
I was very lucky to have parents who did not fit into that category, so never had to consider rejecting them, (though I never fully appreciated what my mother had to put up with until after she'd gone unfortunately).
My daughter did not have a good reason for rejecting contact with me I believe, and all kinds of trivia was brought out to make excuses by her or on her behalf, (by those mostly responsible I believe, and a court system unwilling to listen to a non resident dad with no legal rights, as we haven't in the UK).
Child abusing parents are thankfully pretty rare, and if this were not so then the authorities and medical people would not feel it safe to send mothers and their new born babies home to live with the father would they(?), though of course it cannot be ignored when there is good reason to suspect abuse is going on.
 
The comments above (those you're responding to), are not my own, so all I can do is give you my position, but not answer why the person I've quoted believed anyone saying "A parent has to earn respect from their child" may be wrong.
If there is a good reason to reject a parent, or shun a parent, then the disrespect a child might wish to show them can be justified obviously.
I was very lucky to have parents who did not fit into that category, so never had to consider rejecting them, (though I never fully appreciated what my mother had to put up with until after she'd gone unfortunately).
My daughter did not have a good reason for rejecting contact with me I believe, and all kinds of trivia was brought out to make excuses by her or on her behalf, (by those mostly responsible I believe, and a court system unwilling to listen to a non resident dad with no legal rights, as we haven't in the UK).
Child abusing parents are thankfully pretty rare, and if this were not so then the authorities and medical people would not feel it safe to send mothers and their new born babies home to live with the father would they(?), though of course it cannot be ignored when there is good reason to suspect abuse is going on.
You seem to be saying that a parent does NOT have to earn respect. I think I'll bow out of this thread as I don't understand your position. I have read and reread it numerous times and I just don't understand where you are coming from.
 
You seem to be saying that a parent does NOT have to earn respect. I think I'll bow out of this thread as I don't understand your position. I have read and reread it numerous times and I just don't understand where you are coming from.
Thanks for your interest in the thread, and just to repeat myself, I'm saying the person I quoted explained the flaws in your argument about parents having to earn the respect of their parents, including an explanation as to what people mean by "respect", far more eloquently than I'm able to do.
However, to use an absurd argument to try to draw out one aspect, "A baby does not emerge from the womb with a contract in their hand demanding their parents sign it, stating they must always show their child respect", (therefore, until they do the baby will just have to take its chances those two patents will love its little socks off, and hope for the best!). :)
 
Respect is earned. I don't care whether you're parent demanding respect from a child, an employer demanding it from a junior, spouses demanding it or anything else.

I never demanded respect from my kids. It was freely given to me, in large part because I respected them. It was not given to their father, who was abusive and sarcastic and domineering and controlling. I insisted they be polite, (and it was dangerous to not be, because he was volatile and unpredictable) but didn't demand they respect him because he did nothing to cause that response in them.

And I don't think you can force someone to respect you anyway. To do so guarantees that they won't. You can get compliance, acquiescence, obedience by force. But not respect.
 
Respect is earned. I don't care whether you're parent demanding respect from a child, an employer demanding it from a junior, spouses demanding it or anything else.
I never demanded respect from my kids. It was freely given to me, in large part because I respected them. It was not given to their father, who was abusive and sarcastic and domineering and controlling. I insisted they be polite, (and it was dangerous to not be, because he was volatile and unpredictable) but didn't demand they respect him because he did nothing to cause that response in them.
And I don't think you can force someone to respect you anyway. To do so guarantees that they won't. You can get compliance, acquiescence, obedience by force. But not respect.
If you don't mind my saying you appear to me to be arguing two opposing positions at the same time.
Your description of your own family isn't something I wish to question in any way, (though to use the awful phrase so often used against me when I try to explain my estrangement from my child, "We've only heard one side's views").
You haven't tried to counter the arguments put forward in the OP or the second post I made on this thread, quoting from the website given above.
That is fine of course, everyone should do as they please on a thread like this one, though to further our understanding of whether the guy quoted made valid points, someone should address what he said. :)
 


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