Thoughts on life without parole

[bobcat]

When a person is imprisoned for life without parole (LWOP), it means, instead of the death penalty being carried out by another method, it means death by incarceration. Granted we need to protect society from dangerous individuals, so what do we do with them?

I looked into the cost, and it varies widely by state, but an average is around $60,000 per year. Prisoners generally die younger than their counterparts on the outside, but a general average is about 62. That means, if you imprison someone at the age of 32, they would spend on average 30 years behind bars, at a cost of nearly 2 million dollars, and if you adjust for age related illnesses, the cost goes up substantially as prisoners age, to around 3 million.

We try to keep them from killing themselves, but they are going to die there no matter what is done. We can't just turn them loose, but with no possibility of ever becoming a redeemed and functioning member of society, what is the solution?
There does exist a theoretical escape hatch in that a governor can grant a pardon or commute a sentence, but it is fairly uncommon. Most commutations are from a death sentence to LWOP, which results in the same outcome. The political risk is too great if the prisoner reoffends, nevertheless, it can and does happen.

,

 

[Dr.Colosso]

Why not force them to work and let em pay their own rent. In the Lucky Luke they always did forced labor.

 

[Gardenlover]

This reminds me of the 1970s television series Baretta. The theme song sung, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

 

[Aunt Bea]

It’s all above my pay grade.

I believe that some people who commit horrific crimes are no danger to society.

I also believe in the death penalty

IMO life in prison without parole is a much more severe punishment than the death penalty.

Incarceration in general doesn’t seem to have done much to deter crime or improve our society, maybe it’s time to scrap the existing system and consider something different.

 

[Gardenlover]

Why not force them to work and let em pay their own rent. In the Lucky Luke they always did forced labor.

This makes prefect sense and would not fall into restrictions regarding cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[Gardenlover]

I think the thought patterns change depending on if it's you or a loved one doing LWOP or if you or a loved one were the victim of the crime.

 

[IrishEyes]

As I read the OP, it made me wonder. If a person knows they will never get out and are the type to
be a short fused bully and murder someone while serving LWOP do they ever get a re-sentence for
the death penalty under new charges?
If a person serving LWOP is truly distressed about it and would rather have had a death sentence,
would/could that entice them to commit a murder especially if they were the target of hate and abuse.
I can't fathom the mindset to the degree inmates have to live with daily.
I can sure picture where a LWOP sentence could sure push some further into a violent life inside. Like:
what do I have to lose?

 

[Dr.Colosso]

Incarceration in general doesn’t seem to have done much to deter crime or improve our society, maybe it’s time to scrap the existing system and consider something different.

In Holland, Norway and countries like that the criminal comes first. A murderous rapist is always a sweet poor thing who needs another chance. A young woman was killed and raped by a guy who had already attacked two other girls with a knife, but they let him stay in an open facility in a wood where she biked.

 

[hollydolly]

In Holland, Norway and countries like that the criminal comes first. A murderous rapist is always a sweet poor thing who needs another chance. A young woman was killed and raped by a guy who had already attacked two other girls with a knife, but they let him stay in an open facility in a wood where she biked.

Same in the UK....

 

[outlander]

This is where Escape from New York becomes relevant

 

[Dr.Colosso]

As I read the OP, it made me wonder. If a person knows they will never get out and are the type to
be a short fused bully and murder someone while serving LWOP do they ever get a re-sentence for
the death penalty under new charges?
If a person serving LWOP is truly distressed about it and would rather have had a death sentence,
would/could that entice them to commit a murder especially if they were the target of hate and abuse.
I can't fathom the mindset to the degree inmates have to live with daily.
I can sure picture where a LWOP sentence could sure push some further into a violent life inside. Like:
what do I have to lose?

But son of Sam is doing great. I read once that he wanted to stay there for the families of his victims.

 

[Michael Z]

But son of Sam is doing great. I read once that he wanted to stay there for the families of his victims.

His is a story of redemption. He is always remorseful for the pain he caused and refuses any early release. Meanwhile he runs a ministry from prison and I have even ordered and distributed tracts he created to inmates of the Bible study I do at the county jail. For his story see David Berkowitz's Testimony

 

[SeaBreeze]

When a person is imprisoned for life without parole (LWOP), it means, instead of the death penalty being carried out by another method, it means death by incarceration. Granted we need to protect society from dangerous individuals, so what do we do with them?

I looked into the cost, and it varies widely by state, but an average is around $60,000 per year. Prisoners generally die younger than their counterparts on the outside, but a general average is about 62. That means, if you imprison someone at the age of 32, they would spend on average 30 years behind bars, at a cost of nearly 2 million dollars, and if you adjust for age related illnesses, the cost goes up substantially as prisoners age, to around 3 million.

We try to keep them from killing themselves, but they are going to die there no matter what is done. We can't just turn them loose, but with no possibility of ever becoming a redeemed and functioning member of society, what is the solution?
There does exist a theoretical escape hatch in that a governor can grant a pardon or commute a sentence, but it is fairly uncommon. Most commutations are from a death sentence to LWOP, which results in the same outcome. The political risk is too great if the prisoner reoffends, nevertheless, it can and does happen.

,

I wonder why it's so expensive and if it's over-inflated. I have a feeling it is. I think if you play, you pay. If they want to commit suicide, let them. Whether behind bars or living freely, we all should have the right to end our lives if desired. That would also save some money for the prison 'system'.

 

[hollydolly]

I wonder why it's so expensive and if it's over-inflated. I have a feeling it is. I think if you play, you pay. If they want to commit suicide, let them. Whether behind bars or living freely, we all should have the right to end our lives if desired. That would also save some money for the prison 'system'.

I never understand that either SB... if a prisoner who is a lifer wants to commit suicide, why are they stopping them... ?

 

[SeaBreeze]

I never understand that either SB... if a prisoner who is a lifer wants to commit suicide, why are they stopping them... ?

I could see protecting them from being killed by other inmates, but if it's their personal choice, let them.

 

[hollydolly]

I could see protecting them from being killed by other inmates, but if it's their personal choice, let them.

exactly !

 

[stephenPE]

Public hangings were popular 140 yrs ago..... Ever wonder why America has such a huge prison population? I mean we lead the world I think. With the most guns, gun deaths and plenty of other violent acts. But we are the greatest country with the most freedom. Something just does not add up. And now housing, medical care and about everything else is hammering a large % of us........

I am not pointing fingers but the wealth has flowed upwards for a long time and its not pretty........ Hell, prisons provide food and health care. Maybe at the level of Cuba but they ain't begging on the street.......seems crazy now..........When 5% have 80% of the wealth its not healthy for most people or our economy.........Im not jealous I have enough to live on but Im watching many others and especially young people trying to get started. My start was MUCH easier in 1973 when I graduated from HS.

 

[jim_slim]

Why not force them to work and let em pay their own rent. In the Lucky Luke they always did forced labor.

Plus, have them work the crop fields!

 

[SeaBreeze]

Public hangings were popular 140 yrs ago..... Ever wonder why America has such a huge prison population? I mean we lead the world I think. With the most guns, gun deaths and plenty of other violent acts. But we are the greatest country with the most freedom. Something just does not add up. And now housing, medical care and about everything else is hammering a large % of us........

I am not pointing fingers but the wealth has flowed upwards for a long time and its not pretty........ Hell, prisons provide food and health care. Maybe at the level of Cuba but they ain't begging on the street.......seems crazy now..........When 5% have 80% of the wealth its not healthy for most people or our economy.........Im not jealous I have enough to live on but Im watching many others and especially young people trying to get started. My start was MUCH easier in 1973 when I graduated from HS.

Greatest and most freedom is falling by the wayside. Like you, things were much easier financially back in the day. I was born in the fifties and grateful for that, life has been good and I've never been rich, always blue collar working class.....and happy with that. Retired now, and disgusted with what is happening here.....very sad.

PS: I'm against the death penalty, I don't like killing by criminal or the powers that be.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

If there was a clear solution to the public expense of imprisonment, it would have been implemented by now. Most states have programs in place to charge prisoners (after their release) for a portion of their upkeep while they were in prison, and collect it by seizing tax refunds, property or other assets, or through wage garnishment installments once they gain re-employment. These are called "pay-to-stay" fees for room and board, medical visits, and other costs.

Obviously, that approach doesn't work on those incarcerated for life. Unfortunately, there is no way for society to recover most of the costs of crime and punishment.

 

[bobcat]

Why not force them to work and let em pay their own rent. In the Lucky Luke they always did forced labor.

From what I've read transporting prisoners is one of the riskiest operations. A lot can go wrong outside prison walls, and especially putting tools in the hands of violent people. Plus you need to pay for and have fleets of maintained security vehicles, and you have to pull plenty of guards away from their jobs at the prison just to supervise them.

Most often the cost of the procedure is more expensive than the work achieved, and besides they have to be trained unless they are just picking up litter or something. Probably most high risk prisoners would see it as a prison break opportunity, and they can be pretty clever.

 

[HoneyNut]

I looked into the cost, and it varies widely by state, but an average is around $60,000 per year.

That sounds pretty cheap considering that is housing, food, healthcare.

I have doubts that the for-profit prison system is doing any effort to treat patients' mental illnesses and rehabilitate where possible, they have a profit motive to just hang onto prisoners for as long as they can.

I've heard that AI will be providing us all with 'friends' that we will love, so maybe there could be AI friend-therapist companionship for prisoners that might help some portion of them enough that they can re-enter society. Assuming they don't subvert the AI into joining them in crime!

I feel like more property crimes should be penalized like in the Bible, with the criminal having to pay the victim four or five times the value of the property. I'd be leaving my keys in my car if we had that system.

 

[Dr.Colosso]

From what I've read transporting prisoners is one of the riskiest operations. A lot can go wrong outside prison walls, and especially putting tools in the hands of violent people. Plus you need to pay for and have fleets of maintained security vehicles, and you have to pull plenty of guards away from their jobs at the prison just to supervise them.

Most often the cost of the procedure is more expensive than the work achieved, and besides they have to be trained unless they are just picking up litter or something. Probably most high risk prisoners would see it as a prison break opportunity, and they can be pretty clever.

A guy from my country had been in prison and was complaining that he had to do boring forced labor there in prison. Maybe because he was not dangerous and the real dangerous ones they won't dare to force.

 

[David777]

The solution today with telecommunications and oversight could be isolation on remote tropical islands where a skeleton police force with public oversight, monitors activities but generally allows inmates to run the place and enforce their own laws as long as it remains reasonably civil and democratic, without gang development. Some may have an ability to eventually leave for legal reason and would maybe not be just lifers but also include those with multi decade sentences society doesn't trust ever letting out like many sex and or drug criminals, and hopelessly mentally deranged persons.

All inmates would have a public record of what they do while there. They would have to grow their own foods, build their own shelters, have their own schools, and learn to cooperatively work together manning all types of occupations necessary for a small isolated community.

Would use technology to eliminate the possibility of using aircraft, ships, or submarines to escape and some supplies like medical would be brought in. Thus, much less cost to the rest of us. Would leave the many details to professionals who could figure out how to make it work without costing the rest of us like incarceration does now.

 

[BJintheUK]

The solution today with telecommunications and oversight could be isolation on remote tropical islands where a skeleton police force with public oversight, monitors activities but generally allows inmates to run the place and enforce their own laws as long as it remains reasonably civil and democratic, without gang development. Some may have an ability to eventually leave for legal reason and would maybe not be just lifers but also include those with multi decade sentences society doesn't trust ever letting out like many sex and or drug criminals, and hopelessly mentally deranged persons.

All inmates would have a public record of what they do while there. They would have to grow their own foods, build their own shelters, have their own schools, and learn to cooperatively work together manning all types of occupations necessary for a small isolated community.

Would use technology to eliminate the possibility of using aircraft, ships, or submarines to escape and some supplies like medical would be brought in. Thus, much less cost to the rest of us. Would leave the many details to professionals who could figure out how to make it work without costing the rest of us like incarceration does now.

I think I'd like to be sent to a tropical island for a while, just to get away from the rigours of society, and the awful weather we get here in winter. So if I commited some crime that would allow me to be incarcerated on a remote tropical island I'd see that as a holiday, a working holiday of course, but far away from the madding crowd. [Sign me up Scotty!]

The only problem I can foresee with this scenario is the Lord of the Flies syndrome, where someone becomes a warlord and then subjects the other inmates to a life of hell, or murders them by chucking them off the nearest cliff.