Walmart

I hate those self checkouts, too. They are worthless if you have more than one or two things, and are WAY more trouble than they are worth. I ran in one of those Wal Mart Neighborhood Markets for something the other day. There was one checkout lane with a person, and a whole bunch of those self checkout lanes open. There was a line waiting for the real person and no one at all using the self checkouts. Some employee came along and pointed out that there were self checkout lanes open, but everybody, including me, stayed in the real person's line.

The Wal Marts here still check your receipts at the door (very perfunctorily, but they still do it).
 
It's my understanding once you conceal something and then pass thru a checkout or walk by a checkout without paying it's shoplifting, and I've seen security quietly come up to people, say a few words and lead them to a private area. You don't have to actually leave the store - if that were the case few people would get caught, detained, or arrested (which is also an option if the store chooses).

ETA: What I saw was not at Walmart.
 

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applecruncher said:
It's my understanding once you conceal something and then pass thru a checkout or walk by a checkout without paying it's shoplifting, and I've seen security quietly come up to people, say a few words and lead them to a private area. You don't have to actually leave the store - if that were the case few people would get caught, detained, or arrested (which is also an option if the store chooses).
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Well I have to disagree with you.

Depending on your jurisdiction, you cannot even be approached until you've left the store premises. This isn't universally true, and often the act of concealment of store property is enough evidence to have you arrested and charged. Sometimes, store security staff (or the contract security firms that work in malls) will bend the rules a bit and rely on your ignorance of your rights in order to detain you if they're certain they have probable cause. In some cases, they'll threaten to call the police if you don't cooperate.

https://lifehacker.com/5853355/know-your-rights-if-a-store-detains-you-for-shoplifting
 
Butterfly said:
I hate those self checkouts, too. They are worthless if you have more than one or two things, and are WAY more trouble than they are worth. I ran in one of those Wal Mart Neighborhood Markets for something the other day. There was one checkout lane with a person, and a whole bunch of those self checkout lanes open. There was a line waiting for the real person and no one at all using the self checkouts. Some employee came along and pointed out that there were self checkout lanes open, but everybody, including me, stayed in the real person's line.

The Wal Marts here still check your receipts at the door (very perfunctorily, but they still do it).
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What would happen if you just kept on walking out and told them you don't have time to be checked out and that you didn't take anything you haven't paid for and tell the security guard that if they insist you would sue them and the store for unlawful search?
 
Camper6 said:
Well I have to disagree with you.

Depending on your jurisdiction, you cannot even be approached until you've left the store premises. This isn't universally true, and often the act of concealment of store property is enough evidence to have you arrested and charged. Sometimes, store security staff (or the contract security firms that work in malls) will bend the rules a bit and rely on your ignorance of your rights in order to detain you if they're certain they have probable cause. In some cases, they'll threaten to call the police if you don't cooperate.

https://lifehacker.com/5853355/know-your-rights-if-a-store-detains-you-for-shoplifting
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Well, disagreeing with me is your prerogative. But you didn't really disagree - you added some contingencies.
 
Camper6 said:
What would happen if you just kept on walking out and told them you don't have time to be checked out and that you didn't take anything you haven't paid for and tell the security guard that if they insist you would sue them and the store for unlawful search?
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The only way for you to know "what would happen if" is for you to go ahead and do what it is you asked about.
 
I apologize for being late again. I am teaching a class on how to secure evidence at the scene. That's the skinny of it.

I'm not sure what they are called in your area of the country, but around here what used to be called "store detective" is now called "Loss Prevention Specialist" or something like that. Going by Pennsylvania law, if the LPS views the person concealing the merchandise and follows that person until they have passed the checkout area, they are permitted to apprehend, not arrest, the shoplifter and hold them until police arrive. Keep in mind, this is only PA law.

It all comes down to concealment. If the SL, in the judgment of the LPS, the person concealing the merchandise has every intention of not paying for the hidden article, then he/she may follow that person until they have passed the checkout area and then they are permitted to use force to contain the individual . The law here actually reads that the SL is to be nabbed outside the store, but that's ridiculous. There are just too many SL's that can run faster than the LPS.

For one, I know that Ohio, Illinois and Texas have different laws. In New York City, where it has been reported that they lose in excess of 25 million dollars annually to shoplifters, if you even look suspicious, the LPS, or manager can run you out of the store legally.

In PA, if a bystander (patron) sees the theft, their only option is to notify an employee. If they make any attempt to nab the SL and they use physical force and cause harm to that person, they are held liable for any injuries. Insurance companies pay out hundreds of millions of dollars per year due to shoplifting. If you talk to a lawyer, judge, Prosecutor, they will all tell you that although it's a nasty and unethical crime, it's normally a victim-less crime and they would rather see the insurance company dole out a few dollars than see someone hurt over a stolen hairbrush, coat or whatever. But if you are concerned about the stores and insurance companies losing money over shoplifters, there's no need to; we are all paying it back.

Maybe five years ago, I was in Sears looking at a set of screwdrivers that I was considering buying for my kid. I saw a man pocket two deep well sockets. (I thought he was completing his set.) I was not in uniform, but I do carry a small badge inside my wallet, so I walked up to him, showed him my badge and said very politely, "You don't want to spend Christmas in jail, do you?" Oh, this was Christmas Eve. He stood frozen just looking at my badge. I had to say, "Hello?" He apologized all over the place and asked me what I was going to do. I told him nothing if he puts the two sockets back and leaves the store. Of course, he tried to convince me that he has never done anything like that before. I told him that I believed him because he wasn't very good at.

There is some risk to approaching shoplifters. If you see one taking place, for your safety, just tell a clerk. Several years ago, about this time of the year, we had two men walk into a jewelry store and do what's called a "smash, grab and run." That's where they come into the store, generally with a rock in their hand, smash the glass on top of the jewelry case grab what they are after, usually Rolex watches or diamond rings and then high tail it out of the store. This is why we are seeing less and less Rolex's in the cases and the diamonds are inside shatter proof glass in the high end stores. Heck, some stores even employ armed security guards at this time of the year and BTW, they fall under a different category as to how they can handle a shoplifter. They don't carry a gun just for intimidation.

And remember ladies, when shopping, always carry your pocketbook slung around your neck and hanging by your side, if you are carrying large amounts of cash or several credit cards. When most thieves see your pocketbook being carried in that manner, they will not even attempt to take it.
 
Won't use it, did once, sort of, the employee said she would do it for me and she did, so I guess that doesn't count. If they want my money, they will supply a human interface to take it, otherwise I go someplace else. They can automate till the cows come home but at the point of sale (register), they better have a blood circulating, oxygen breathing carbon unit to check me out (seriously). Edit to add I didn't know this post had morphed into something other than self checkouts at the store. So, my post applies to self checkouts at the stores and I still won't use them. Excuse my interruption and carry on...
 
Not an interruption Macfan. I haven't been to Walmart lately but I never used their self-check. As I mentioned up thread it chaps my hide that Kroger is pushing people to use U-scan. Saturday I was in regular line and heard people complaining. :mad:
 
You and I are on the same page, applecruncher. The harder the stores push for us to use self checkout, the harder I will push back. What the hey, it may be my last great act of defiance lol.
 
Giantsfan1954 said:
I'd guess the bottom line...raising the minimum wage seems to have started an enormous amount of these situations.
Price Chopper is a major grocery in my area and I have noticed in my last 3 visits there are no express lines,there are regular and anyone with just a few things is directed to the self-checkouts,where there is 1 employee "directing traffic " and solving problems.
Not a fast food fan but have been told that 3 of the 4 McDonald's in driving distance have gone to an automated ordering system with just the people that assemble the orders working.
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We have that here. It's a pain. If you are paying cash you still need a clerk to take your money.
If you are using debit or credit cards then your order gets posted and a number shows up.
 
Macfan said:
You and I are on the same page, applecruncher. The harder the stores push for us to use self checkout, the harder I will push back. What the hey, it may be my last great act of defiance lol.
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Funny. I look for stores with self check out. What are you defying?

We used to try to avoid the ATM machines but ATM machines are open 24 hours and are so much more convenient than standing in line behind pokey people.
 
Camper6 said:
Funny. I look for stores with self check out. What are you defying?

We used to try to avoid the ATM machines but ATM machines are open 24 hours and are so much more convenient than standing in line behind pokey people.
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I prefer the human interaction as well as the acknowledgment that I are one (human). On ATMs, I withdraw money from them but when I deposit money, if it isn't auto-deposit, I go to a teller window. Every machine that replaces what a human used to do means one more human without a job, that Camper6, is what I'm against (or defying). In no way do I have a problem with those that choose to use the self checkouts, different strokes for different folks and all that. In my small, and probably insignificant, way, I'm trying to save someone a job that might not otherwise have one.
 
Macfan said:
I prefer the human interaction as well as the acknowledgment that I are one (human). On ATMs, I withdraw money from them but when I deposit money, if it isn't auto-deposit, I go to a teller window. Every machine that replaces what a human used to do means one more human without a job, that Camper6, is what I'm against (or defying). In no way do I have a problem with those that choose to use the self checkouts, different strokes for different folks and all that. In my small, and probably insignificant, way, I'm trying to save someone a job that might not otherwise have one.
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At the ATM s I never deposit. Clerk for deposits . Rarely withdraw. I use a debit card. Rarely use cash.

I guess whatever ever is convenient. Here in Canada the government is moving to auto deposit for pension checks and in fact all government checks.

Actually that helps a lot of seniors who have trouble getting around. Having to get to a bank is a real chore for some and it also stops fraud. and theft and loss.
 
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