What Do Real Muslims Believe?

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OneEyedDiva

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I saw a couple of comments on a thread that sadly was closed because more discussion is needed on the topic of Muslims and spreading love. @mellowyellow said "people who follow Islam scare her to death". That's sad! I wonder why? @senior chef theorized about an insane percentage of Muslims who are terrorists based upon what.....???

First of all, let me say that Muslims who join these terrorist organizations are IMO on the same level as those who join the KKK and used racial hatred to kill innocent Blacks and Jews. Islam DOES NOT condone their actions. Suicide is a big sin in Islam, thus suicide bombers are creating the ultimate sins by 1. Killing themselves 2. Killing/harming innocents and 3. Lying on God (by claiming these acts in His name).

Real Muslims believe that no one race is better than another. We believe that all God's people (people of the books) have rights and should be treated equally and justly. I once heard a Christian woman on the news say something about "whatever God they believe in". I thought to myself, that fool doesn't even know we believe in the same God that the Bible says created heaven and Earth. She sounded mighty ignorant...I guess the name Allah threw her off. She was too dumb to know that Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, just as Dios is Spanish for God. I know Imams (Muslims ministers) who teach from the Bible as well as the Quran and some know the Bible better than Christians do. I was raised Christian before I accepted Islam at age 45, so I know this to be true. The Quran contains Surahs (chapters) that mention Jesus and Mary.

Islamophobia has spread so widely because people take the worst of what they see so called Muslims do and judge all Muslims by those things. I'm so glad I don't judge all White people by the acts of the KKK and other racists. BTW, earlier this year domestic terrorists (among them White Supremacists) were named by U.S. intelligence as one of the biggest threats we face in this country. I'm also glad I don't judge all Christians by the bad apples in the bunch. Many horrible things have been done in the name of Christianty!
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/22/us-domestic-extremism-security-threat-9-11-capitol-assault/
@Pecos @feywon
 

@OneEyedDiva, Certain politicians and media exert control over their followers though fear mongering, Islamophobia is one tool in their toolbox.

it's a sad state of affairs, racism is alive & well in the 21st century. Ignorance is as rampant as ever despite(or maybe because of) the Information Superhighway.

The struggle for liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government, and separation of church and state continues....
 

I understand where you are coming from Diva but I don't like terms like "real Muslim" or "real Christian". Faith is essentially a relationship with the Divine and it is not for any of us to judge the faith of others. Of course, we are all guilty of doing just that, overlooking the instruction, "Judge not, lest ye be judged". To some extent we are all guilty of condemning others but absolving ourselves.

On the other hand, it is reasonable to look at the practices of certain sects or denominations and criticise things that we find abhorrent. It is not OK for priests to make a vow of celibacy and abuse the choir boys. It is not OK to claim to be a religion of peace and to force conversion by the sword as the Spanish did in South America. It is not OK to burn heretics at the stake because they worship using a different rite as was commonplace in Reformation Europe. Nor is it OK to burn a missionary and his young sons in their car to prevent him from preaching his faith (India, in my lifetime). Women should never be executed for being witches, not should very young girls be given in marriage to old men.

To greater or lesser extent we are all hypocrites. As a Christian I have been impressed by the goodness (godliness?) of people that I have met who are practising Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics and Quakers. I am aware that evil people are capable of corrupting every religion and sect for ungodly purposes such as conquest, power and greed. Every religion and every political movement because we are all fallible to false teaching.
 
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I understand where you are coming from Diva but I don't like terms like "real Muslim" or "real Christian". Faith is essentially a relationship with the Divine and it is not for any of us to judge the faith of others. Of course, we are all guilty of doing just that, overlooking the instruction, "Judge not, lest ye be judged". To some extent we are all guilty of condemning others but absolving ourselves.

On the other hand, it is reasonable to look at the practices of certain sects or denominations and criticise things that we find abhorrent. It is not OK for priests to make a vow of celibacy and abuse the choir boys. It is not OK to claim to be a religion of peace and to force conversion by the sword as the Spanish did in South America. It is not OK to burn heretics at the stake because they wordship using a different rite as was commonplace in Reformation Europe. Nor is it OK to burn a missionary and his young sons in their car to prevent him from preaching his faith (India, in my lifetime). Women should never be executed for being witches, not should very young girls be given in marriage to old men.

To greater or lesser extent we are all hypocrites. As a Christian I have been impressed by the goodness (godliness?) of people that I have met who are practising Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Catholics and Quakers. I am aware that evil people are capable of corrupting every religion and sect for ungodly purposes such as conquest, power and greed. Every religion and every political movement because we are all fallible to false teaching.
Hi Warrigal,
Do you think it is safe for me to quote verses from the Quran without being banned ? If so, I would only post the quotes and not say a single other word.
 
Hi Warrigal,
Do you think it is safe for me to quote verses from the Quran without being banned ? If so, I would only post the quotes and not say a single other word.
Oh you read it entirely in original language? Or maybe just have some out of context and or poorly translated verses? I don't know how admin would feel about, but i suspect any observant objective person could match your quotes with Old and New testament ones that sound as bad.
 
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Hi Warrigal,
Do you think it is safe for me to quote verses from the Quran without being banned ? If so, I would only post the quotes and not say a single other word.
You sound like the fifteen year old girls who used to ask my permission for something they planned to do. In most cases it was a trap. If I gave my approval without knowing exactly what they had in mind (they tended to leave out details that they knew I would not sanction) then when the excrement hit the rotor they would say, "But Miss said it was OK".

I'm sure you will excuse me if I don't give you my answer.
I'll just remind you of the proverb, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread".
 
Oh you read it entirelt in original language? Or maybe just have some out of context and or poorly translated verses? I don't know how admin woukd feel about, but i suspect any observant objective person could match your quotes with Old and New testament ones that sound as bad.
Ah, I get it. Not interested in literal full quotes.
 
I saw a couple of comments on a thread that sadly was closed because more discussion is needed on the topic of Muslims and spreading love. @mellowyellow said "people who follow Islam scare her to death". That's sad! I wonder why? @senior chef theorized about an insane percentage of Muslims who are terrorists based upon what.....???

First of all, let me say that Muslims who join these terrorist organizations are IMO on the same level as those who join the KKK and used racial hatred to kill innocent Blacks and Jews. Islam DOES NOT condone their actions. Suicide is a big sin in Islam, thus suicide bombers are creating the ultimate sins by 1. Killing themselves 2. Killing/harming innocents and 3. Lying on God (by claiming these acts in His name).

Real Muslims believe that no one race is better than another. We believe that all God's people (people of the books) have rights and should be treated equally and justly. I once heard a Christian woman on the news say something about "whatever God they believe in". I thought to myself, that fool doesn't even know we believe in the same God that the Bible says created heaven and Earth. She sounded mighty ignorant...I guess the name Allah threw her off. She was too dumb to know that Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, just as Dios is Spanish for God. I know Imams (Muslims ministers) who teach from the Bible as well as the Quran and some know the Bible better than Christians do. I was raised Christian before I accepted Islam at age 45, so I know this to be true. The Quran contains Surahs (chapters) that mention Jesus and Mary.

Islamophobia has spread so widely because people take the worst of what they see so called Muslims do and judge all Muslims by those things. I'm so glad I don't judge all White people by the acts of the KKK and other racists. BTW, earlier this year domestic terrorists (among them White Supremacists) were named by U.S. intelligence as one of the biggest threats we face in this country. I'm also glad I don't judge all Christians by the bad apples in the bunch. Many horrible things have been done in the name of Christianty!
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/22/us-domestic-extremism-security-threat-9-11-capitol-assault/
@Pecos @feywon

Diva, yours is an excellent post. It is such a shame that so many evil people are willing to distort religion for their own purposes and it is such a shame that so many other people are so willing to believe the worst without even thinking. I have known a number of Muslims and I never detected the least difference between their value system and mine.

You are absolutely right that the biggest threat in this country right now is white supremacy. I worry a great deal about what they are trying to do.
 
Am I allowed to quote verses from the Quran ? If so, I will not say a word except for the Quran quotes
So you want to quote verses from the Qur'an like a parrot? The Qur'an is written in 114 languages which one will you use or will you stick to the original Qur'an written in Classical Arabic and do also quote from the Hadith to get a better understanding of what certain passages may mean.
 
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@senior chef , This is such a disappointingly low brow comment, perhaps I expect too much from people, even though they're old enough to know better.
I think I'll just bow out of this thread. No one seems remotely interested in the literal truth quoted from the Quran.
People expect me to quote in the original Arabic. AND, even then they would find some way to side step the true facts.
Bye Bye
 
Am I allowed to quote verses from the Quran ? If so, I will not say a word except for the Quran quotes
You can quote verses. I suspect you want to do so to rebuke what I have written. But just remember, there are verses to support what I have written as well. And it's well known that the Bible contains contradictions, as some might point out...so does the Quran. I've learned, however, that interpretation has a lot to do with it (in both cases).
 
From Wikipedia:

No true Scotsman, or appeal to purity, is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly.[1][2][3] Rather than abandoning the falsified universal generalization or providing evidence that would disqualify the falsifying counterexample, a slightly modified generalization is constructed ad-hoc to definitionally exclude the undesirable specific case and counterexamples like it by appeal to rhetoric.[4] This rhetoric takes the form of emotionally charged but nonsubstantive purity platitudes such as "true, pure, genuine, authentic, real", etc.[2][5]

Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt.[1] The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:[6]

Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
 
I know "real" Christians who send checks to BLM and others who think the orange man won the election. Some think same sex marriage is a sin, others think it's wonderful. There's no way to generalize, and I'm sure the same is true of Islam. Any religion with more than a billion adherents encompasses huge variations and factions.
 
Real Muslims believe that no one race is better than another. We believe that all God's people (people of the books) have rights and should be treated equally and justly.
The implication of this statement is that people not "of the books" (meaning Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sarbians) don't have rights nor are they required to be treated equally and justly. That's a shocking, abhorrent position. Only those with Judeo roots qualify as God's people?
 
The implication of this statement is that people not "of the books" (meaning Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sarbians) don't have rights nor are they required to be treated equally and justly. That's a shocking, abhorrent position. Only those with Judeo roots qualify as God's people?
I can't change what's in the Bible, Torah or Quran Star. But I will say this. I have friends who claim no religious affiliations (some former Christians who got turned off), some never affiliated and a good friend who is Buddhist. I have friends who are gay and "bi". I treat them all the same. I know other Muslims who do likewise. So don't be so shocked. We're all just trying to get through this life.
 
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You can quote verses. I suspect you want to do so to rebuke what I have written. But just remember, there are verses to support what I have written as well. And it's well known that the Bible contains contradictions, as some might point out...so does the Quran. I've learned, however, that interpretation has a lot to do with it (in both cases).
Thank you, Diva, that was the point of my remarks about if he quoted the Quran to support his assumptions, prejudice:
All scriptures are open to interpretation, for good and ill.
The Abrahamic (again for those who don't know their theological history- Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the Grandfather, Father and Son faiths who are founded on the same beliefs and practices) religions are particularly prone, susceptible due to all the translations and interpretations, as evidenced by the many 'cousins'---all the small offshoot sects that use the same scriptures but interpret differently.

Another point was that unless the reader knows at least some of the original language they don't have enough info on which to base their 'interpretations' of the scriptures. Correct me if i'm wrong but at one time weren't Muslim children required to read the Quran in the original for precisely that reason? Catholic church for a long time discouraged any independent reading of the Bible because they felt it would 'confuse' people. (Not surprising for a clergy that handpicked what books were included and which were ignored.) i was impressed with JW's encouraging people to read for themselves till i realized from research and personal experience with their 'missionaries' that they actually do a good bit of 'guiding' converts' interpretations down the path founder Russell laid out.

All the previous contributed to my leaving organized religion, a spiritual choice which was essentially confirmed during NDE. But last night reading this thread it occurred me that over the years i've known Atheists who would get good chuckle out these debates, some of them would likely condescendingly compare it to arguments about comic book heroes. i generally point out to them that the flaws in religions can all be traced to human flaws, human tendencies--including starting out with good intentions but sometimes getting corrupted by the power over other humans faith can wield. Western religions aren't alone in preaching charitable acts, compassion, but as @Warrigal pointed out they are also not alone in having the principles of their faith misused, misapplied by their followers.

To quote Walt Kelly's Pogo--"We have met the enemy and he is us." Which was a parody of a statement made by a General in the War of 1812 ("We have met the enemy and he is ours."-- Wm. H. Harrison) 36. “We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us” – Tales from the Vault: 40 Years / 40 Stories (osu.edu)
 
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Abuse of females was not what Muhammed preached. That is one of those distortions by some 'followers'.
Do you blame all Mormons for the abuses in the sect led by Warren Jeffs? All Christians for the the oppression of women many Christian sects favor, the child abuse by both Catholic priests and Protestant clergy and 'Youth ministers'?
 
I saw a couple of comments on a thread that sadly was closed because more discussion is needed on the topic of Muslims and spreading love. @mellowyellow said "people who follow Islam scare her to death". That's sad! I wonder why? @senior chef theorized about an insane percentage of Muslims who are terrorists based upon what.....???

First of all, let me say that Muslims who join these terrorist organizations are IMO on the same level as those who join the KKK and used racial hatred to kill innocent Blacks and Jews. Islam DOES NOT condone their actions. Suicide is a big sin in Islam, thus suicide bombers are creating the ultimate sins by 1. Killing themselves 2. Killing/harming innocents and 3. Lying on God (by claiming these acts in His name).

Real Muslims believe that no one race is better than another. We believe that all God's people (people of the books) have rights and should be treated equally and justly. I once heard a Christian woman on the news say something about "whatever God they believe in". I thought to myself, that fool doesn't even know we believe in the same God that the Bible says created heaven and Earth. She sounded mighty ignorant...I guess the name Allah threw her off. She was too dumb to know that Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, just as Dios is Spanish for God. I know Imams (Muslims ministers) who teach from the Bible as well as the Quran and some know the Bible better than Christians do. I was raised Christian before I accepted Islam at age 45, so I know this to be true. The Quran contains Surahs (chapters) that mention Jesus and Mary.

Islamophobia has spread so widely because people take the worst of what they see so called Muslims do and judge all Muslims by those things. I'm so glad I don't judge all White people by the acts of the KKK and other racists. BTW, earlier this year domestic terrorists (among them White Supremacists) were named by U.S. intelligence as one of the biggest threats we face in this country. I'm also glad I don't judge all Christians by the bad apples in the bunch. Many horrible things have been done in the name of Christianty!
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/22/us-domestic-extremism-security-threat-9-11-capitol-assault/
@Pecos @feywon
I am so sorry you saw those threads! I saw one comment on one thread that was offensive to both Muslims, Jews, and me 😂 and suggested that the person to remove it. I hope they did. It is so strange, I just had a discussion with a neighbor yesterday where we agreed there is only one GOD.

we may refer to this one God by different names, but there is only one God. The difference is in the what I like to call trickle down effect of mans‘ interpretation of God”s meaning. So different religions, different religious leaders, etc.

We agree for sure on this 😍
 
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