What is meant by those stating they are atheists, (an objective question to discuss whether this may means different things?)?

I didn't say that religious thought was not about morals, but I think the phrase should have been "religious teaching" rather than religious thought.
As for morals, generally speaking, the morals that a religion bases its tenet on, and whose ministers teach to its congregation, are the words and/or example of the deity or deities it follows, or worships, or in which one invests ones faith or to whom one devotes their life.
Morals of the non-religious are human standards of behavior taught by parents to their children and/or a whole society to each other that make the society successful, and are based on what behaviors are considered right and wrong, or beneficial and destructive, or good and bad. Moral behavior, aka right, or beneficial, or good behavior, makes a society effective, prosperous, peaceful and pleasant. Immoral behavior, aka, wrong, or destructive, or bad behavior, does the opposite.
Religious thought is another thing.
There is plenty to question about any religion, (I guess we'd be in agreement there), however, though other forum members have rejected my suggestion attacking religion is an aspect of some folks who say they are atheists behaviour I do still think there is something in it.

As we've struggled a little to understand one another's meaning, (or I have at least), its just possible I'm describing what I believe I've seen inadequately and am being misunderstood, or what s being described is two sides of the same coin.

If you state you are an atheist does this automatically mean anyone speaking of any religion is forcing thoughts upon you, and you can therefore claim to be abused, (or having your ears abused!)? That would add up to a "bad experience" wouldn't it, even if everyone in the church of wherever the religious thought or teachings were being spoken about behaved in a perfectly respectable and loving way all the time.

Mentioning "love" leads me on to other thoughts as love is said to be such a basic aspect of most religions, but I will be guilty of moving away from my intentions on this thread if I pursue this aspect further so will desist! :)
 

Marie5656 said:
I did used to go to a Christian church, thinking it would help me discover a belief system. Liked it well enough, but left after the pastor told me my gay niece was going to Hell
Alligatorob wrote: "Something along those lines first triggered me to questioning religion. I was about 12 and going with my grandmother to her fire and brimstone Baptist church. A boy I knew, younger than I had drowned recently. The preacher said that because his parents had not had him baptized they had condemned the boy's soul to burn in hell for all eternity. It seemed to me that was a bit harsh, he was a good kid. The more I thought about it, and how many people in the world were not baptized the more it bothered me. Up until that point in life I just accepted what I heard from preachers and the like, they were after all people of authority. It eventually lead to my current agnostic condition."
grahamg said:
I attempt to kick off this discussion, and it is whether "attacking religion" is a motivating factor, to those stating they are atheists?
"No, I don't think so. It seems to me most people who attack religion or specific religions have had bad personal problems with some religion. I don't see religion, or any I know much about, as inherently evil. I think a lot of people use religion as an excuse or support to do evil things though. Long history of that. Looking back to the Baptist preacher I mentioned above, I think he did a bad thing, but not that the Baptist faith is bad. Even if he believed what he was saying he should have kept it to himself. I know the boy's parents got wind of it, that had to add to their pain...

There are of course many worse examples of people doing evil under the banner of some religion, I suspect those people would be doing evil no matter their religion, or lack of it."
Its very hard to answer this line that a bad experience such as the one described might be enough to turn someone towards atheism on its own.
An obvious response might be that because one preacher said something a parent would find offensive (albeit drawn from the bible perhaps), does that have to put you off all churches and preachers who might have put things very differently.
Two semi-retired preachers at my local church (who happen to be married to one another), are the last people I could imagine offending anyone unless you are offended by all "religious thought and teachings", such lovely, caring, giving, family people they are, and at the same time so disciplined with themselves.
 

As we've struggled a little to understand one another's meaning

If you state you are an atheist does this automatically mean anyone speaking of any religion is forcing thoughts upon you, and you can therefore claim to be abused, (or having your ears abused!)? That would add up to a "bad experience" wouldn't it, even if everyone in the church of wherever the religious thought or teachings were being spoken about behaved in a perfectly respectable and loving way all the time.
Saying you are an atheist says you hold no belief in gods. Full Stop! It sounds to me like you want it to mean more than that. It doesn't.
 
(((If you state you are an atheist does this automatically mean anyone speaking of any religion is forcing thoughts upon you, and you can therefore claim to be abused, (or having your ears abused!)? That would add up to a "bad experience" wouldn't it, even if everyone in the church of wherever the religious thought or teachings were being spoken about behaved in a perfectly respectable and loving way all the time.)))))

Its not abuse unless they continue to push it when asked to just stop. And so many do continue anyway. That usually causes ME to get a bit abusive.
 
Saying you are an atheist says you hold no belief in gods. Full Stop! It sounds to me like you want it to mean more than that. It doesn't.
I will admit to all kinds of things, and in my defence the OP said the same thing as to what an atheist might believe, but it is pretty obvious that most people will have differing ideas as to what any religion is about and I would say some have little or no knowledge when declaring themselves to be atheists, (this was in my mind too when I wrote the OP because I had direct knowledge of this).

However, to end on a positive note, here are some views on life from a much loved man called Terry Wogan, who appeared on BBC radio, (and later TV) for many years, who did declare he hadn't got a faith in God. He'd been raised and taught at a strict college in Dublin, though never abused I believe, (and had only good warm words to say about the priest there as far as I can recall).

Terry Wogan on modern life in the UK:
"A listener, obviously at the end of his tether, notes that council tax re-valuers want to charge us more if we live in a 'nice' area, which surely ought to mean discounts for those of us who live in a 'rough' area, as this unfortunate obviously does: 'We have a huge council house in our street. The extended family is run by a woman with a pack of dogs. Her car isn't taxed or insured; it doesn't even have a number plate, but the police do nothing about it. Her grumpy old man is famous for upsetting foreigners with racist comments. A local shopkeeper blames him for ordering the murder of his son's girlfriend, but nothing has been proved. Two of the kids have broken marriages, and two grandsons are meant to be in the Army, but are always out at nightclubs. The family's odd antics are forever in the papers. They're out of control. Who'd want to live near Windsor Castle?'

Meanwhile, Elfin Safety continues to bemuse: an elderly gentleman, upon leaving hospital, was issued with a stool on which to rest a sore leg. The little stool carried a warning: 'Do not attempt to use this until the clinician has demonstrated the correct method.' The old man's family took a chance, and stood the stool upright on its legs. Let's hope they don't regret such a foolhardy action.

Recently, a friend's mother-in-law, aged 91, fell and broke her pelvis, which caused her a few problems ... one of which was the arrival of the regulation free-gift commode. She was cheered enormously by the warning: 'This item is not intended to be used as a seat and should not be used before being demonstrated by a trained health professional.' Now, that's a job and a half ... imagine the strain of demonstrating half a dozen of those a day." :)
 
There is plenty to question about any religion, (I guess we'd be in agreement there), however, though other forum members have rejected my suggestion attacking religion is an aspect of some folks who say they are atheists behaviour I do still think there is something in it.

As we've struggled a little to understand one another's meaning, (or I have at least), its just possible I'm describing what I believe I've seen inadequately and am being misunderstood, or what s being described is two sides of the same coin.

If you state you are an atheist does this automatically mean anyone speaking of any religion is forcing thoughts upon you, and you can therefore claim to be abused, (or having your ears abused!)? That would add up to a "bad experience" wouldn't it, even if everyone in the church of wherever the religious thought or teachings were being spoken about behaved in a perfectly respectable and loving way all the time.

Mentioning "love" leads me on to other thoughts as love is said to be such a basic aspect of most religions, but I will be guilty of moving away from my intentions on this thread if I pursue this aspect further so will desist! :)
You are easily misunderstood, Graham...speaking for myself. Could be two sides of the same pond, or could be you carry on 2 conversations at once (one of them in parenthesis) and I have difficulty sussing out your point.

But going with what I think you meant; I'm an atheist who understand that the religious people I'm most likely to come into contact with are taught to spread their gospel. It's an assignment given to them by their God, or even a 13th commandment. I don't fault them for that anymore than I fault them for believing in a God.

When Mormon missionaries come to my door, I know why they're there, and as soon as they've finished introducing themselves, I tell them I'm atheist and have no desire to change. I'm as polite to them as they are to me. If it's summer and they look too warm, I offer bottles of water. Before I close my door, I tell 'em I hope they have a good day. I've got nothing against them whatsoever.

A belief in God can help addicts rehabilitate, help people accept death, stop people from being violent, help them appreciate nature, and more. I don't have a problem with that. But, thank god, I live in a country that separates church from state.

I have no argument with religion. It doesn't effect my life at all.
 
"I've raised whether attacking religion is part of what some atheist might mean when they state their beliefs."

IMO, atheism & religion are two different subjects...You can have one without the other.
In my opinion Faith and Religion are two different things. I have faith but abhor religion because it's a man made system that puts people into various cages of conformity!

I had a couple come to me who wanted to be baptized by a Baptist minister but were determined at the same time to join a denomination that wouldn't eat pork or shellfish, that went to worship on Saturdays rather than Sundays in accordance with O.T. laws. I was curious and asked them:

Why would you want to join a denomination that is so restrictive (after St. Paul had clearly stated that all those old laws and dietary restrictions had been lifted) and the answer was, "because those restrictions make us feel that we are serious about serving God." I tried to be kind but did not baptize them!

There is only one commandment for me: Love God and love your neighbour as you would yourself! And that includes the LGBT community as well as all sexes, races and creeds! Including those who find it impossible to believe in a Higher Power! I fail at times, badly, but I'm trying!
 
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You are easily misunderstood, Graham...speaking for myself. Could be two sides of the same pond, or could be you carry on 2 conversations at once (one of them in parenthesis) and I have difficulty sussing out your point.
But going with what I think you meant; I'm an atheist who understand that the religious people I'm most likely to come into contact with are taught to spread their gospel. It's an assignment given to them by their God, or even a 13th commandment. I don't fault them for that anymore than I fault them for believing in a God.
When Mormon missionaries come to my door, I know why they're there, and as soon as they've finished introducing themselves, I tell them I'm atheist and have no desire to change. I'm as polite to them as they are to me. If it's summer and they look too warm, I offer bottles of water. Before I close my door, I tell 'em I hope they have a good day. I've got nothing against them whatsoever.
A belief in God can help addicts rehabilitate, help people accept death, stop people from being violent, help them appreciate nature, and more. I don't have a problem with that. But, thank god, I live in a country that separates church from state.
I have no argument with religion. It doesn't effect my life at all.
"You're not the first to suggest they have trouble understanding me or my posts", (a very insightful lady once stated something about my having a need to be understood, and she did this without my having made any arguments in the text she examined!!).
I like the way you've laid out your position too, and you cannot be accused of "attacking religion (/religious thought/religious teaching)" either.

Its not necessary to go into the thoughts you've raised in my mind (and doing so would mean going further than my original intentions for this thread), except to say that the ramifications of what you've said are hard to fully understand and appreciate.
 
In my opinion Faith and Religion are two different things. I have faith but abhor religion because it's a man made system that puts people into various cages of conformity!

I had a couple come to me who wanted to be baptized by a Baptist minister but were determined at the same time to join a denomination that wouldn't eat pork or shellfish, that went to worship on Saturdays rather than Sundays in accordance with O.T. laws. I was curious and asked them:

Why would you want to join a denomination that is so restrictive (after St. Paul had clearly stated that all those old laws and dietary restrictions had been lifted) and the answer was, "because those restrictions make us feel that we are serious about serving God." I tried to be kind but did not baptize them!

There is only one commandment for me: Love God and love your neighbour as you would yourself! And that includes the LGBT community as well as all sexes, races and creeds! Including those who find it impossible to believe in a Higher Power! I fail at times, badly, but I'm trying!
You've challenged me here but luckily help is on hand as I'm outside church now and will endeavour to seek some opinions on your thoughts before attempting to answer them! :)
 
In my opinion Faith and Religion are two different things. I have faith but abhor religion because it's a man made system that puts people into various cages of conformity!
Google search: "Faith can be thought of as confidence or trust in a person, thing, or concept. In the context of religion, one can define faith as "belief in a god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion. There are many different religions and faiths across the world.
Faith and Religion are sometimes used synonymously by some people. Though there exists a strong interdependence between these two words, there is a distinct difference between faith and religion. The main difference between faith and religion is that faith is the complete trust and confidence in someone or something whereas religion is a specific system of belief and/or worship, often involving a code of ethics."
I had a couple come to me who wanted to be baptized by a Baptist minister but were determined at the same time to join a denomination that wouldn't eat pork or shellfish, that went to worship on Saturdays rather than Sundays in accordance with O.T. laws. I was curious and asked them:
Why would you want to join a denomination that is so restrictive (after St. Paul had clearly stated that all those old laws and dietary restrictions had been lifted) and the answer was, "because those restrictions make us feel that we are serious about serving God." I tried to be kind but did not baptize them!
There is only one commandment for me: Love God and love your neighbour as you would yourself! And that includes the LGBT community as well as all sexes, races and creeds! Including those who find it impossible to believe in a Higher Power! I fail at times, badly, but I'm trying!
"Love is the things there just isn't enough of", (or so the old song goes).
Wanting to be a "good person", or your child to grow up to be a good, honest person, one who finds people who love them and does so in return are fair aims aren't they, (and not exclusive to those with either a "faith" or a "religion", (bearing in mind the connections mentioned above).
I once spoke to a minister after a service and told him of someone who declared themselves to be an atheist. "Good" was his response! I didn't discover why though can surmise they believed it showed they had thought about religion at least.
BTW my friends in church this morning would only say they shared the view ideas about religion shouldn't be forced on people, and they had no wish to do so, and they told me of a series being repeated on Sunday mornings on the BBC linked to celebrities following the ancient trail of St Columbus around Britain and Ireland whilst discussing faith and religion with those thy meet along the way.
 
Its very hard to answer this line that a bad experience such as the one described might be enough to turn someone towards atheism on its own.
The experience I described didn't alone turn me. It was just the first time it struck me that a preacher might be wrong. It started me thinking about the rest of things a very long process. Still continuing I guess, keeps me interested enough to post things about it.

I do believe the preacher in question was an evil person, on that day anyway. I have never however believed the Christian (or any other) religion to be evil, just hard to believe.
 
I once spoke to a minister after a service and told him of someone who declared themselves to be an atheist. "Good" was his response! I didn't discover why though can surmise they believed it showed they had thought about religion at least.
It's because they were intelligent people who had thought long and hard about all the contradictions to having faith in a supernatural being! I was like them but was changed by an experience with the Divine! I still have the same questions but am now reassured that there is a loving Higher Power!

I am just annoyed with religion, including that practiced by many of my colleagues. I am not being arrogant, just disturbed by some of the nonsense inflicted on the unwary! It seems everyone's Jesus is different. Come from a strict, fundamentalist home and you'll quote and teach strict, fundamentalist passages from the Bible. If you are from a loving home, your Jesus will be loving and forgiving. Personal prejudice had to sneak into my sermons as well, I am sure. Thank God for the LOVE I experienced because that coloured my preaching.
 
I think religion should be treated the same as politics is treated here.
I miss not being able to talk "politics!" The moderators could always keep their eyes on trolls, hateful and abusive posts and delete them! It shouldn't be hard to do. There are so many things wrong with our present system that we should be able to discuss its few strenghts and many weaknesses. My opinion, @mrstime, don't hate me! :)
 
I think religion should be treated the same as politics is treated here.
And I think politics should be treated the same as religion is now treated here.
I miss not being able to talk "politics!" The moderators could always keep their eyes on trolls, hateful and abusive posts and delete them! It shouldn't be hard to do. There are so many things wrong with our present system that we should be able to discuss its few strenghts and many weaknesses.
I agree, but its not my decision.
 
It's because they were intelligent people who had thought long and hard about all the contradictions to having faith in a supernatural being! I was like them but was changed by an experience with the Divine! I still have the same questions but am now reassured that there is a loving Higher Power!

I am just annoyed with religion, including that practiced by many of my colleagues. I am not being arrogant, just disturbed by some of the nonsense inflicted on the unwary! It seems everyone's Jesus is different. Come from a strict, fundamentalist home and you'll quote and teach strict, fundamentalist passages from the Bible. If you are from a loving home, your Jesus will be loving and forgiving. Personal prejudice had to sneak into my sermons as well, I am sure. Thank God for the LOVE I experienced because that coloured my preaching.
And if you are a religion OTHER than christian (and there are many), Jesus never was.
 
And if you are a religion OTHER than christian (and there are many), Jesus never was.
A valid point! If it hadn't been for the fact that I was guided (in my conversion experience) to read a sentence in the book of James when I had never read the N.T. and certainly didn't even know who James was, I would agree with you. As to other religions, I am counting on God's love and mercy! I personally don't think he would condemn anyone just because they grew up in a different culture, and have beliefs different from mine! He loves all!
 
And if you are a religion OTHER than christian (and there are many), Jesus never was.
Not all:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/isa.shtml

"Jesus reinterpreted by the Qur'an is singled out, again and again, as a prophet of very special significance. Uniquely among prophets he is described as a miracle of God, an aya; he is the word and spirit of God; he is the prophet of peace par excellence; and , finally it is he who predicts the coming of Muhammad (pbuh) and thus, one might say, is the harbinger of Islam."
 
Not all:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/isa.shtml

"Jesus reinterpreted by the Qur'an is singled out, again and again, as a prophet of very special significance. Uniquely among prophets he is described as a miracle of God, an aya; he is the word and spirit of God; he is the prophet of peace par excellence; and , finally it is he who predicts the coming of Muhammad (pbuh) and thus, one might say, is the harbinger of Islam."
Thank you for opening my eyes, I never knew this about Islam!
 
What is meant by those stating they are atheists, (an objective question to discuss whether this may means different things?)?

Here's an objective answer to your thread title / question:
Code:
a·the·ist
noun
noun: atheist; plural noun: atheists

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
 
Thank you for opening my eyes, I never knew this about Islam!
How about this then:

Upon further investigation:

https://relevantmagazine.com/faith/what-other-world-religions-think-about-jesus/

"It’s interesting to note even those religions pre-existing Jesus have come to include Jesus in their description of reality. All the world’s major religions feel compelled to account for Jesus in one way or another."
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Chuck Berry: "C'est la vie," say the old folks, "it goes to show you never can tell"
 


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