You've been shunned by your child, do you require explanation?

I think you're assuming wayyyy too much about my character there.

I've had my daughter's address for about two years, and never once attempted to even go past her house, though I visit the city a few times a year, (I've had her mobile number for five or more years, and not sent a text, let alone telephoned, since the visit described in the OP.

As a "super sleuth" therefore, I'd say you've a bit to learn, (ditto amateur psychologist), and I couldn't see a lawyer in the Perry Mason mould, hiring you like Paul Drake anytime soon! :)
:rolleyes: Ya right.
 

IMO it’s not about her it’s about you. You can’t control your family’s behavior or recollections of the past but you have complete control over your behavior.
I agree with Gary. Keep the door open by accepting the invitation. Keep it light and enjoy yourself without delving into the past or turning it into a family therapy session. Good luck to you and your family.
I agree with Gary too, though not so much with your interpretation of his comments, (as I see your views/thoughts).

Maybe I read too much into his "Ta Ta" comment at the end(?). :(
 
To be shunned by a child is indeed very sad and only you know why that is. My advice for what it is worth, is to keep any line of communication open.
I hope you don't mind my telling you about a couple of people I've met who had different perspectives on all this.

Both were women, one estranged from her child due to the influence of the father following divorce she said, and only when the father died did her child get back in touch with her, and then behaved as though there had never been anything wrong between them.

The second story was very strange in my view, involving a woman whose mother had sadly died when she was about ten years old, and her dad had married again to a woman with three children of her own.

The woman told me her father refused to speak to her at all, once he'd remarried, and this situation went on for years, with this teenager being shunned, (or sent to Coventry, if you understand the expression?). The only possible explanation I, or anyone else could think of for the fathers behaviour, was an extreme example of trying to make sure he didn't favour his own child over the stepchildren.

She suffered a very difficult time as a teenager, as I'm sure you can imagine, and said it had affected her all her life.
 

Graham, acceptance of the situation is key here. It sounds as if it is so deep rooted in the past that the future looks grim.

But I hope that some day that will change. Maybe it will, maybe it won't but whatever it is just accept it as that being the way it is going to be.

Not trying to be harsh, just practical.
 
Graham, acceptance of the situation is key here. It sounds as if it is so deep rooted in the past that the future looks grim. But I hope that some day that will change. Maybe it will, maybe it won't but whatever it is just accept it as that being the way it is going to be. Not trying to be harsh, just practical.
How often do we hear today, "I don't want anyone to go through what I've been through", (as though everything in life could be made better, just by a change in the law in the manner desired, or whatever)?
In my tin pot way I'd like to see a modest change in the law whereby decent patents in the UK were permitted some legal rights, (or statute law rights, as opposed to " Common law rights"). :)
 
Graham if you do not mind me asking, what exactly happened at that meeting?
It is so difficult not to leap at the chance of reconciliation, that being said, your suspicions can be pushed to one side, as the desperation of the child you have loved and raised is extending an olive branch.
The position you are in sounds very toxic to me. Please forgive me for jumping to this conclusion.( no harm meant)
 
Graham if you do not mind me asking, what exactly happened at that meeting?
It is so difficult not to leap at the chance of reconciliation, that being said, your suspicions can be pushed to one side, as the desperation of the child you have loved and raised is extending an olive branch.
The position you are in sounds very toxic to me. Please forgive me for jumping to this conclusion.( no harm meant)
If you can possibly accept the situation I'm in is similar to the one I described above, (not the very strange one of the woman being sent to Coventry by her father, perhaps at the request of his new wife/partner, the other one), then the discussion we might have could go somewhere.
There was once evidence to back this up, (my parents being told it was the case, my child telling them when aged twenty one that her mother and stepdad were the reason she didn't see me, and she had to live there with them).

Btw I once heard a child protection officer, a woman heavily involved in the false allegations made against parents in the Shetland Islands, say "Do you want me to believe those children lied"?

This was when twenty years on from the events those very children who had made up stories, (who were now grown ups), were saying just that, they said "they'd made up stories of ritual abuse against their parents, just to stop professionals like her asking them questions", (or as the only way to stop the incessant questions).

When I try to assert what happened over my child I meet somewhat similar resistance to listen to me by some, albeit on a much smaller scale, or to a much lesser degree, and without the dreadful repercussions that occurred on Shetland thirty odd years ago! :(
 
You've been shunned by your child, do you require explanation?
Perhaps your child is"punishing" you? That seems to be the case with my estranged adopted daughter. I've been punished enough over the last 25 years, and consider it to be her problem, not mine. Sure, it still hurts, but such matters are out of my control.

If she ever wished to reconcile with me, she knows how to contact me...
 
Perhaps your child is"punishing" you? That seems to be the case with my estranged adopted daughter. I've been punished enough over the last 25 years, and consider it to be her problem, not mine. Sure, it still hurts, but such matters are out of my control.
If she ever wished to reconcile with me, she knows how to contact me...
Undoubtedly so, and here's an irony in all this, she'd never have had the ten or so years of loving contact and care I was able to give her, and she clung to believe me, if i hadn't believed the courts would back me if I needed them to, (as they did when she was young, and under pre 1989 Children's Act legislation).
 
I just thought, before anyone else posts any points of view, I'd throw in a couple more anecdotes, and see if they take the thread anywhere, (should the thread not have run its course!).

I'm right now watching a very old, black and white film called "Tom Brown's schooldays", (filmed and/or released in 1940). I've seen the film many times before, often missing the start unfortunately, and for those unfamiliar with the film, the new headmaster tries to instill his thinking and impose his will on Rugby school, one of the great schools in this country to this day.

The headmaster's will is to emphasise the need for honesty and integrity to be shown by everyone at the school, in order that the boys educated theatre can go on to be just leaders and citizens of our country etc.

Now the point of mentioning this film on a thread supposed to be about whether or not a parent should ask for an explanation from their child who has shunned them for a long period.

My point is this, in bringing up our children, (accepting those of us who are nonresident parents, when we're divorced or separated, have limited influence), how much do we try to instill in our children the need to be honest in life?

Here is an anecdote on lying, or you could say, "misleading" others.

On one occasion, as I'd just picked up my child during a fortnightly visit, I was told that they wouldn't speak to me, (can't remember why, if there was a reason?). Anyway, hours went by, and no matter what I tried my child didn't change their mind, and the will power necessary to keep silent was certainly impressive, and had me foxed as to what I should do.

The solution presented itself however, as my parents had gone to my brothers farm for Sunday lunch, and we followed them, once we'd learned of my parents going there. My child was then sat amongst my brothers five children at the table, and try as much as they like, eventually my child relented and everything returned to normal, and spoke to the cousins and enjoyed the fun being had.

Alls well that ends well you're thinking, however you've jumped to conclusions, because what happened on this day formed part of the arguments put forward to the courts, in order to justify my exclusion from my child's life. My child's stepfather mentioned it in his statement, (one of seven statements submitted, including two written by librarian friends of his who I'd never met, but claimed to have insight to impart because they'd witnessed my child's behaviour after a contact visit with me). The stepfather stated I'd refused to speak to my child for hours on the day in question, and I was responsible for this happening, and it was cruel on my part etc.

How had he formed this opinion, (if he hadn't misconstrued everything by himself?)?

I imagine one quite likely reason could be my child was "economical with the truth", when returning to her home, and suggested I'd not spoken to them by my own volition, not because I couldn't think of a way to pursuade my child from maintaining their silence.

One anecdote doesn't amount to much, but I want to say something now about the fathers rights movement, including the groups I've marched with, and this is no secret, hence complete truth you could say! On their websites you will read fathers being advised to accept those accusing them of abusing or mistreating their children are telling the truth in order to get them through the legal process, so long as doing so means they then get the contact order to see their children, (odd as that might sound).

Fighting against unjust accusations being seen as an unfortunate way of delaying the process, as it takes time to unravel who has been lying.

What a state of affairs, that the only outcome offered to these fathers in order to keep in contact with their children is to lie about themselves, (so cynical are the fathers rights groups about the kind of " justice" metered out by our family courts in the UK).
 
I hope you don't mind my telling you about a couple of people I've met who had different perspectives on all this.

Both were women, one estranged from her child due to the influence of the father following divorce she said, and only when the father died did her child get back in touch with her, and then behaved as though there had never been anything wrong between them.

The second story was very strange in my view, involving a woman whose mother had sadly died when she was about ten years old, and her dad had married again to a woman with three children of her own.

The woman told me her father refused to speak to her at all, once he'd remarried, and this situation went on for years, with this teenager being shunned, (or sent to Coventry, if you understand the expression?). The only possible explanation I, or anyone else could think of for the fathers behaviour, was an extreme example of trying to make sure he didn't favour his own child over the stepchildren.

She suffered a very difficult time as a teenager, as I'm sure you can imagine, and said it had affected her all her life.

Aloha grahamg, I do not mind at all. Those two people you mentioned are hurting and what they say to you will be based on their own experiences.There is a saying in the islands which is: “children always begin at the foundation”. You are the foundation, your daughter is half you, so if you shun her, you shun yourself.

You say you had her address and mobile no. for a long time. Yet you never contacted her. This must be very hard for you as it would be for any parent. I am wondering if it might have crossed her mind that you should have tried to at least, send her a text? I can understand you wishing to respect her privacy. May I ask how you got her mobile no? If she did not give it to you herself, then you did the right thing by not using it.

I will not tell you what to do, but would suggest if there is a close family member or friend you feel you can trust, what about giving them your mobile no. and asking them to pass it on. After that, you have two choices as I see it (a) you completely shun her (which I would never recommend) or (b) you sit on the shore and wait for the tide to turn (that I recommend).
You appear a loving father and a shame you are going through this, but hang in there, the wind can change at any time.

pōmaikaʻi (good luck)
 
Aloha grahamg, I do not mind at all. Those two people you mentioned are hurting and what they say to you will be based on their own experiences.There is a saying in the islands which is: “children always begin at the foundation”. You are the foundation, your daughter is half you, so if you shun her, you shun yourself.

You say you had her address and mobile no. for a long time. Yet you never contacted her. This must be very hard for you as it would be for any parent. I am wondering if it might have crossed her mind that you should have tried to at least, send her a text? I can understand you wishing to respect her privacy. May I ask how you got her mobile no? If she did not give it to you herself, then you did the right thing by not using it.

I will not tell you what to do, but would suggest if there is a close family member or friend you feel you can trust, what about giving them your mobile no. and asking them to pass it on. After that, you have two choices as I see it (a) you completely shun her (which I would never recommend) or (b) you sit on the shore and wait for the tide to turn (that I recommend).
You appear a loving father and a shame you are going through this, but hang in there, the wind can change at any time.

pōmaikaʻi (good luck)
All the avenues you've kindly suggested have been well and truly worn out, so sorry to be negative about things, it just won't work that way, (nor I guess will anything work, with the possible exception of the change mentioned in the life of one of those two women I described).

It bores people when anyone mentions statistics, but here in the UK a survey has found a third of a million children are saying they are unhappy with their lives, (my daughter could never have said that I'm glad to say). How many of those third of a million have contact with their fathers the radio report did not say, and if they did have contact with their fathers no one can guarantee it would make them happier.

However, my argument remains this, "Once you undermine fathers involvement in their children's lives, to the extent that many don't believe they will be supported by the family courts, (should they approach a court for assistance), this loss of faith will have consequences, some of them harmful to the children involved, whether anyone likes it or not"!

You can't put Humpty Dumpty together again, once you've undermined fathers in the way I keep trying to describe, (and others keep telling me not to mention and "get on with my own life"!).
 
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Here are a few links to articles on parenting, and quotes:

https://www.positiveparentingsolutions.com/parenting/5-ways-to-show-respect-for-your-child

(author bit of a know all in my humble opinion, here are some career details, "Nationally recognized parenting expert Amy McCready is the Founder of Positive Parenting Solutions..... As a “recovering yeller” and a Certified Positive Discipline Instructor, Amy is a champion of positive parenting techniques for happier families and well-behaved kids. Amy is a TODAY Show contributor and has been featured on CBS This Morning, CNN, Fox & Friends, MSNBC, Rachael Ray, Steve Harvey & others. In her most important role, she is the proud mom of two amazing young men).

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/respect/

Quote:
"Whether it’s talking back, having an attitude, or refusing to listen, disrespect is often at the top of the problem list parents bring to my office. I typically search for ways to move disrespect down the list.

VALUING PEOPLE OR VALUING POWER?

It’s difficult to suggest putting the topic off until later because respect is very important. However, we parents too often fall into demanding respect and forcing children to comply. With threats, punishment, shaming, bribes, and rewards, we use various forms of our power to get kids to respect authority. Our success has been our downfall. We’ve unwittingly taught kids to respect the power and control of authority, losing sight of the more important goal of respecting relationships and respecting each other as individuals."
 
Carrying out the search above I came across this guys views I'd endorse 100% I think, (its a bit confusing because he's answering the person who asked the questions he's addressed in turn at the end):

"I’m sure you don’t realize it, but you are dealing with several separate structures of authority here, rather than one single one, and that is the cause of your consternation and confusion.

There are always AT LEAST two reasons to respect other people. One reason for the fact that they are people, due at least as much respect as you are, and the other is because of whatever status or position they hold.

Your parents are due respect both as other human beings, and they are also due a different kind of respect because they are your parents. In addition to that, chances are good that at least while you are living with them, they also hold the status of owners of the household, which is yet again another position due respect in other ways.

Although you will often hear people say that “respect must be earned,” most people who do say so out loud, actually don’t know what they are talking about. Quite literally, don’t know. Because it is true that SOME kinds of respect must be earned, but it is not true that ALL kinds of respect must be earned.

And in addition, when it comes to “losing respect,” things get complicated as well. At no time, can you ever say that someone should lose the respect they deserve simply for being a fellow human being. Never. Someone might lose respect for being an HONEST human being, but that is a separate kind of respect again.

Another confusion you may have, is with what the term “respect” actually means in each situation you mention. Because it is unfortunately true, that most people speak fairly sloppily, and use terms such as “respect” incorrectly, thus making for even more confusion.

One of the most common ways where people misapply the term “respect,” is when it comes to areas of cooperation or obedience. Many people say “you must show respect,” when what they really ought to say is “you must obey,” and so many people, especially children, get the idea that respect is all about one person having power over another. This is extra annoying, because one of the primary implied meanings of the word “respect,” is “look up to and think highly of,” which doesn’t always fit in with situations where a person must submit to authorities with whom they disagree.

So. My simplified answers to your questions, in light of all that, are:

Q: “Why does everyone just assume that parents deserve respect?”

A: They don’t. They are just sloppy about telling you that you must respect your parents STATUS as your parents, as a part of the structure of society. They don’t “deserve” that, it comes with the job, so to speak. It’s like the fact that you don’t DESERVE to have whatever eye color you do: you just have it.

Q: “ Aren't you supposed to respect to be respected?”

A: No. Each kind of respect is entirely separate from the other kind. If someone SHOULD respect you, but they do not, that doesn’t mean that you should not respect them, as a sort of punishment or revenge. It means instead that you need to deal with them differently than you would with people who DO show you the correct respect. This is a part of the overall idea that if it is wrong to be disrespectful, it is wrong to be so whether someone else is or not. Just as if it is wrong to steal, it is wrong to steal even from a thief.

Q: “What should you do if your parents don't respect you, but think they deserve your respect?”

A: This is not possible to answer without knowing the details, especially since I can’t tell whether you have used the term “respect” correctly and consistently here. It may or may not be true, that your parents are behaving inconsistently with you. But having been both a child and a parent, I know first hand, that many times, this sort of thing is a matter of the details, and is more often misunderstood, than is correctly understood. Again, see the above description of how sloppy most people are about word usages.

Q: “Also, does respect mean obey everything they say?”

A: No, and yes. Again, there is more than one meaning to the word respect involved, but even more to the point, the reasons why you must obey, most of the time, isn’t connected to respect of the “looking up to them” kind, it is connected to the respect of the role that the parents play in your life.

It’s the same as a relationship with an external authority, such as a teacher, or an employer. You don’t have to “respect” your boss or your instructor as a human being, before you have to obey their instructions to you. The two things have nothing to do with each other."

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-ever...so-does-respect-mean-obey-everything-they-say
 

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