CallMeKate
Well-known Member
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic US
Be Prepared. The Grid is going down. Interesting interview with Dennis Quaid
- Thread starter Lara
- Start date
Nathan
Well-known Member
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Lara
Friend of the Arts
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic Coast
Excellent video Knight. Thank you for taking the time to add it here.
Both videos say "It's inevitable" and that's a chilling wake up call.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Yes, it's inevitable, but since nobody knows when or how severe these events might be, power companies and governments prioritize more immediate threats. Human nature.
Perhaps this video will put pressure on legislators.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
I get news feeds from Science websites and I've read several articles about the possibility of strong solar flares that would disable our power grids. In fact, it isn't an if, it's a when since I believe the thought is that we're overdue. Here's an excerpt from the Astronomy.com article linked below:
"Today, a geomagnetic storm of the same intensity as the Carrington Event would affect far more than telegraph wires and could be catastrophic. With the ever-growing dependency on electricity and emerging technology, any disruption could lead to trillions of dollars of monetary loss and risk to life dependent on the systems. The storm would affect a majority of the electrical systems that people use every day."
A large solar storm could knock out the internet and power grid — an electrical engineer explains how
People can ignore the possibility and sit on their hands if they want, but if it should happen it will be too late to prepare. @Paco Dennis That's an excellent preparedness list; I've seen similar ones. @Lara Thank you for shining light on this subject.
@CallMeKate
"Today, a geomagnetic storm of the same intensity as the Carrington Event would affect far more than telegraph wires and could be catastrophic. With the ever-growing dependency on electricity and emerging technology, any disruption could lead to trillions of dollars of monetary loss and risk to life dependent on the systems. The storm would affect a majority of the electrical systems that people use every day."
A large solar storm could knock out the internet and power grid — an electrical engineer explains how
People can ignore the possibility and sit on their hands if they want, but if it should happen it will be too late to prepare. @Paco Dennis That's an excellent preparedness list; I've seen similar ones. @Lara Thank you for shining light on this subject.
@CallMeKate
David777
Senior Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Just listened to DQ's opening statement that was somewhat overstated. Made it sound like all electronics would be fried by a solar storm. Not true. Direct nearby nuclear EMP if war more an issue but not something we need to worry about as likely short term.
What is vulnerable is electric equipment and appliances connected to a power grid that can propagate surges. Solution given even a short warning is simply to disconnect, unplug power inputs. Start by knowing where one's residence ac power circuit breaker box is. Just flip the switches off.
Some worry about EMPs destroying vehicles. Most cars are effective metal Faraday cages. Fiberglass cars not.
Worried about any multi day electric black out as from a major earthquake? Buy a few larger water containers. Buy a large bag of rice, dry potato flour, salt, sugar. Be able to charge lithium batteries from your car 12v recepticals. Have flashlight, standard white gas fuel camp stove gear.
What is vulnerable is electric equipment and appliances connected to a power grid that can propagate surges. Solution given even a short warning is simply to disconnect, unplug power inputs. Start by knowing where one's residence ac power circuit breaker box is. Just flip the switches off.
Some worry about EMPs destroying vehicles. Most cars are effective metal Faraday cages. Fiberglass cars not.
Worried about any multi day electric black out as from a major earthquake? Buy a few larger water containers. Buy a large bag of rice, dry potato flour, salt, sugar. Be able to charge lithium batteries from your car 12v recepticals. Have flashlight, standard white gas fuel camp stove gear.
Michael Z
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Wisconsin
Need to get that extra can of gas for the generator as I will need gas anyway for the lawn mowers! The big thing is our freezers, which have months of food.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
I was hoping you'd weigh in here, David. Good info about modern cars and excellent advice about turning off power at the breaker boxes. I was thinking about running around unplugging everything. Duh...
Should advanced warning be given about a power-crippling solar flare, the run on grocery stores for non-perishables would make the 2020 toilet paper shortage seem like child's play.
If all households maintained stashes of shelf stable food and drinking water to get through two weeks (longer being better), natural and man-made crises would be met with less panic.
As we are warned in CA, don't just store canned beans, vegetables, dry goods and water. People crave familiar comfort foods during anxious times.
My stash includes ample healthy staples plus PB & J and saltines, canned soup, dry & canned fruit, cookies, granola bars, hard candy, mixed nuts, chocolate chips (small handful of nuts and chocolate chips = world's quickest candy bar) and bottled juice plus so much more.
We consume all of these things long before expiration dates (which are arbitrary anyway), so our backstock is always fresh.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
If I read it correctly, the article I posted in reply #80 (just above your reply) and other articles I've read about the subject do state our electronics would be impacted as well as internet services and power grids.
David777
Senior Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Link does not address isolated electronic devices. Only might damage electronic appliances connected to the power grid or communication cables like Internet copper cabling and phone lines. Would not much affect isolated devices nor telecom optical fiber lines that tend to be how most of us are now connected to the Internet. That is why disconnecting power to whatever solves that issue. Same issue as lightning damage that hits power lines except the cause with EMP is not lightning but rather induced voltages just like occurs across conductor gaps with any ac transformers. Causes a large voltage and current pulse down the lines and anything connected to it could be fried. Was often the kind of damage I repaired for 8 years before retirement.
So yeah, if a single person of a residence away at work has all manner of devices at their home connected to power utility AC power and they get a NASA general societal warning of a giant Sun solar flare, they might have less than 30 minutes warning to reach home and disconnect power. More likely, utility companies themselves might disconnect power as much as possible or like a fuse, a power wire near the EMP melts open before it reaches much more distant equipment on the same power cable.
For those with people at whatever residence, phone em to switch off the breaker then no problemo at least for their own stuff. Also devices with an actual mechanical ON/OFF power switch switch off could isolate whatever, however some equipment today, especially TV's usually are not fully isolated until pulling out a power cord.
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Natural gas is big around here. We have several gas transmission stations around our area. I believe most of our natural gas comes from Ohio and Texas. Most homes in my area have at least one appliance that burns NG. Our clothes dryer, range, water heater and furnace all run on NG. My monthly bill runs around $80 per month.
Electricity is what’s expensive. We have a nuclear power plant (3-Mile Island) nearby, but we get no benefit from it. All of the electricity that is produced from there is sold to their company in New Jersey. At one time, TMI had 2 reactors, but there was an accident with Reactor 2 and that reactor was shut down and disassembled. Unit 1 has about used up its usefulness. My electric bill runs between $130-180 per month.
After I read your post, I contacted the company that is going to install my Generac and asked the Supervisor about hooking it up to propane. The supervisor told me that Generac is setup to run on natural gas, but can be reconfigured to run on propane. It’s like he said, if we get into a nuclear war, nothing is going to be running.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
The number often kicked around is that without power, communications, food, fresh water, and law enforcement being restored, some 90% of the US population would die during the first year. A believable number. We'd be thrown back to the mid-1800s in an instant.
It wouldn't take long for society to decay into absolute anarchy. Even preppers, farmers and folks living off the grid would be endlessly fighting well armed, desperate marauders who'd strip them of their supplies like a swarm of locusts.
Knight
Well-known Member
That makes sense. Except for killing all anyone has to do is remember the store shelves during the pandemic.
Nathan
Well-known Member
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
During cold months the propane bill runs close to $600 a month. I'm going to try to shift our energy use over to electric as much as possible. Our roof mount HVAC system is 17 years old, in the next year or so I want to replace it with a hybrid system that in heating mode will first use it's heat pump to provide space heating, and only resort to using propane when the temperatures are much lower. In recent years the winter temps have not dipped below the upper 20s F, and I think that trend will continue. Anyway, will the shift to electric I'm considering a solar system, looking for the best deal, along with any tax credits that might be available.
Knight
Well-known Member
Maybe this works better to demonstrate why your post makes sense.
How long does the national academy think it would take recover from a massive cme event.
According to the National Academy, recovering from a massive Coronal Mass Ejection (CME) event could take several months to a few years.
This time frame is based on the potential damages to electrical grids, communication systems, and satellite networks, as well as the resources needed for repairs and restoration. The actual time required for recovery would depend on the severity of the CME event and the effectiveness of the response measures taken.
https://brainly.com/question/32174207
People aren't good with lack of food & everything they are used to now.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
I don't know about the percentages but I saw a special once on what we can expect to happen if the power grids go down and our lives are severely impacted. Anarchy was one of the things. Back in 2009, when we were addicted to Eons.com, we had a group that followed weather patterns and predictions of catastrophic events. So I really got into this kind of stuff back then. I watched a couple of episodes of Doomsday Preppers and wondered how protected would they really be in a truly catastrophic event, like a major earthquake or massive flooding.
Of course there was talk about the end of the world in 2012. My thoughts were that it wouldn't be the end of the world, but the end of life as we know it, similar thoughts to your statement about us being thrown back into the 1800s. Of course it didn't happen in 2012 but a major CME in the future could cause it to happen. I also predicted in 2009 that weather would become more severe and catastrophic weather events would happen more frequently. Scientists published the same theories a few years later.
I was considering putting in a solar system 3 years ago, but the rule to get solar panels installed on the roof is that you must put up a new roof and I had replaced the roof just a year before. I ended up replacing the HVAC with natural gas.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Being a doomsday prepper would undoubtedly extend one's life in a catastrophic event that sent the world back to the 1800s. The truly awful downside is always inhabiting the mindset: more storage, more prep, more weapons and ammo, and a heavily hardened heart to ensure nobody will take it away - not even by sharing with the winsome toddler next door who may be starving or dying of thirst.
I live a normal life with Mormon-light prep thrown in. Roughly a 3 month supply of food, medicine and most household needs, a few weeks worth of drinking water and some cash on hand. More than that I can't /won't do.
Lara
Friend of the Arts
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic Coast
The 90% Quaid suggested who wouldn't die are most likely the Billionaires who can afford a luxury 3 Million dollar bunker. And he's only speaking of the half of the earth where the sun is shining...where choices will be either space or underground. We've got extra-terrestrial, terrestrial, or sub-terrestrial...but Life on the terrestrial half of the earth in a major Solar Storm won't happen UNLESS the allies on the other side get to work fast to restore our grid for us, I assume.
Propane is a bit more expensive but burns hotter than natural gas so you use less, in the long run that makes it less expensive. Two years ago they finally made gas available on my road and I was going to hook up so I did a ten year comparison of gas vs. propane, I stayed with propane.
Also if you're truly worried about survival I'd be more concerned about natural gas delivery disruptions than losing propane that's supplied from a tank by your house. Of coarse eventually supply of either could be an issue.
Personally I'm not worried by any doomsday predictions, if it happens I'll either adapt or die.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
But here's what I'm wondering Star. If catastrophic earthquakes are powerful enough to destroy concrete buildings, cause massive sinkholes in the ground and dismantle underground infrastructure, couldn't such an event destroy or severely damage underground bunkers too? Or cause them to shift position, perhaps strewing about all the supplies and cutting off their power sources?
Let;'s face it. Most people aren't equipped or inclined to live the prepper life. I like to keep well stocked with non perishables too and like you, keep some cash on hand. It's hard to keep three months worth of meds on hand all the time since my pharmacy restricts how soon I can reorder 90 days worth of meds. Another thing I wonder is how would our banks, including credit card lenders deal with payments due, since they are so dependent on paperless billing and the digital payment system? If our technology is interrupted for what could be months, how would they generate and mail out bills? Postal service operations would be severely impacted, if they could even manage to stay open.
I can see needing cash to shop for groceries, clothing and for use at restaurants but for other things, I don't know if cash would be an option. In fact, how many stores would be able to remain open since supply chains would be interrupted or stop altogether?
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
If a magnitude 8-9 earthquake is epicentered nearby, unscathed survival would be iffy - subterranean structures included. Quakes over magnitude 6 topple heavy furniture, cabinets dump their contents, items on bookshelves and headboards become missiles and whatever's hanging on walls will fall unless they're specifically secured against EQs.
That said, few quakes come anywhere near 8 or 9 magnitude, EQ sinkholes/chasms are mostly Hollywood imaginings, and folks living in EQ zones have the latest safety measures drilled into our heads. Most CA buildings and homes (mine included) have been EQ retrofitted over the past 30 years. The objective: keep structures standing long enough to escape without serious injury. Damage to structures and contents are much lesser consideration.
(My house's full interior hasn't been painted in about 15 years because all large furniture is anchored to wall studs. Pictures, mirrors, etc, are hung with closed hooks, then velcroed in place. Rearrange the furniture for a new layout? Move pictures around? Repaint every few years to follow the latest design trend? Not bloody likely. When/if we redo the floors it'll be repainted. Otherwise we'll leave it to the next owners.)
In a long-term nationwide power interruption, paying bills would be the least of anyone's worries. Access to savings and electronically managed assets would likewise be impossible. For a short while cash might be accepted, but we'd quickly shift to bartering services and trading with/for water, food, fuel, batteries, liquor, tobacco, ammo, gold and silver.
Store shelves would be emptied via widespread desperate looting as soon as the public realized what was happening, pillaging homes would be next, and societal collapse would be upon us. No communications, police, FDs, operational hospitals, medications, etc. 2020 inconveniences and shortages would feel like heaven by comparison.
That's why government-required hardening of our power sources is so important.
CallMeKate
Well-known Member
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic US
I wish so much that I'd have space for a 3 month food supply. I did pretty well when the pandemic started, but even that was just for... probably a month, I guess, and nooks & crannies were filled. I do have a good supply of household stuff and health supplies, so that's a plus. Storing enough water would be a huge problem here. Bottom line is that I do what I can, but I sure wish I'd have more storage space... no basement here. Mormon-light... I like that!
