Paco Dennis
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Israel-Gaza war: Netanyahu vows to defy allies on Rafah invasion
- Thread starter Paco Dennis
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Timewise 60+
Senior Member
Hamas has been walking down a road to extinction! Occasionally, in world history the only way a conflict is resolved is by a final battle. I fear this is what we will see....
By the way Hamas will ignore anything coming from the UN...! Therefore, Israel must continue the fight!
By the way Hamas will ignore anything coming from the UN...! Therefore, Israel must continue the fight!
CallMeKate
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- Mid-Atlantic US
I know that the Security Council had to do something... but I fear it is just an opportunity for Hamas to regroup. They don't "play nice" and they don't listen to anyone's "demand." What is too often forgotten, I think, is that this isn't our granddaddy's war. This isn't one nation against another. This is a terrorist organization. They don't kiss and make up. Oh, they'll most likely lay low and bide their time for a while... maybe a long while, but they're not going to roll over and they're not going to go away.
CallMeKate
Well-known Member
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- Mid-Atlantic US
Me too... but the wars we've known for thousands of years have been nation vs. nation... man vs. man... religion persecution... and this nation/world vs. terrorist organization is new. At least nations can generally play by some of the rules of engagement. This one is so different from even Russia vs. Ukraine... that's two nations no matter what the backstory is or if one side is playing dirty.
VaughanJB
Scrappy
The fundamental issue is whether one see's the opposition are anything better than terrorists. I won't link to the videos of children posting videos in the hope it will protect their family, only to all die due to the israeli incursion. And you will see, israel will use this as an excuse to grab land. It goes beyond Hamas.
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
If we had such terrorists attacking Americans in California, you can bet the USA would enter Mexico and kill terrorist while chasing them away from our border. If Mexico did not stand and protect our border from being attacked, I bet we would occupy part of Mexico to stop access to our borders. This area could become a permanent occupation if it was necessary! It is not about the land; it is about the security...whatever it takes!
Debrah N.
Member
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- Alberta, Canada
Weren't the Crusades examples of what you're talking about here? French, German, Italian and English knights who travelled to the ME to wreak havoc and mayhem and kill those who weren't Christians? So much killing in the name of Jesus who said 'the meek shall inherit the earth' among other things. Bizarre what has been done in the name of religion. Always reminds me of that Carl Sagan video, The Best Speech About Humanity, otherwise known as 'The Pale Blue Dot'.
Debrah N.
Member
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- Alberta, Canada
In the case of Israel, it's also about the land. Without a doubt. That's exactly why they're encouraging people to emigrate there with their Birthright Israel trips among young people and giving Palestinian homes to new Jewish immigrants when they arrive or allowing settlers to take over the 1967 lands supposedly set aside for Palestinians. And exactly why some of those government hawks are talking about taking over Gaza and allowing settlers back on that land too! Can you imagine 2.5 million people squeezed into even less land than Gaza is right now?
VaughanJB
Scrappy
The current situation in Palestine is NOT simply about security. And what is going on now goes beyond demands for security. It's been obvious from the beginning. Civilians are reported to be starving to death this morning. You don't starve women and children to death for your own security.
Brookswood
Senior Member
So why did Hamas attack on Oct 7?
I don’t understand. If a person or group is concerned that people are not eating well, you provide food for them. You don't build underground tunnels and bunkers, stockpile weapons of war, and then blow up what was a pretty good cease fire.
Why did Hamas attack if it’s so obvious Israel would use it as an excuse to grab land?
And why don’t starving grown men count as victims of this war?
Why has Hamas stopped having democratic elections after they came to power?
Why don’t the people who want a new government in Israel also demand a new democratic government in Gaza?
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Debrah N.
Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
One thing that gets lost in the shuffle is that Oct.7th wasn't when all this started. It all started back in 1948 and has just gotten worse and worse leading up to Oct.7th. That 'pretty good ceasefire' still left the Palestinians with minimal food, water and medical care and no hope for a real future for their families.
I heard another fellow suggest that with the Abraham Accords that were arranged during the Trump administration, Hamas was beginning to worry that the Palestinians plight was being glossed over and ignored.
The Abraham Accords have nothing in them for the Palestinians according to an article I read. That agreement if accepted provides for trade and peace and safe travel between Israel and all the other Arab nations in the region but no mention is made of the Palestinians, where they can be safe, how they can move forward, etc. So that attack was something of a reminder that Israel is not in complete control I would guess. And they probably didn't expect to see so many in the Israeli administration and supporters, publicly suggesting once again taking over Gaza (to the further detriment of the Palestinians).
As far as the men suffering, they are counted, but let's face it, the people of the world are more likely to have their heart strings tugged on if you mention women and especially all the little kids suffering because of this.
It's quite obvious that Hamas was not seeking to set up a legitimate, democratic country within a country so to speak. It was purely a power grab by a terrorist group. And that is why there haven't been elections again since 2006. And while everyone outside of Gaza (and I'm sure a lot of Palestinians inside Gaza) would like to see a real governing body that works to make the people's life better in that tiny region, Hamas is not going to just turn over a new leaf and become that. So Israel is right to want to root them out, but I think they are going about it in a way that is designed to cause casualties among the civilians.
If LA was suddenly taken over by gang violence, would Washington send in the military and bomb that region to rubble? Not likely. They'd infiltrate, spy, take out individuals, force them to talk about their partners in crime.... And the innocent civilians would be protected so that there'd be a city after the effort was ended. History is going to look back very harshly on this whole catastrophe.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
I absolutely agree with your points Debrah. And obviously the rest of the world is starting to also and they are speaking out about it. Very true that pointing out that women and children are casualties will tug at the heart strings. And hopefully Washington would not bomb and otherwise kill off innocent civilians just to root out a dangerous gang. It is also true that Hamas has not done right by the Palestinian people. But do people really expect a terrorist group to have that mindset?! What they are doing is so wrong on all levels.
But Netanyahu is not without fault either. From the day he and his administration ignored the intel (I still want to know why) to sending the Palestinians south....then destroying the area(s) they were sent to, then on and on, it has led to terrorism in yet another form. Something is rotten and it ain't in Denmark!
when God chose Abraham to build a nation he reluctantly accepted that Abraham in fact had two sons one Jewish the other not - but he {G} went with this and simple said the non-Jewish son would build a great nation but they would be fighting for ever more - he gave a plot of land [quite large] to Abraham to build a Jewish nation. then the story got really murky - I refer you to the NIV bible - it's as good as any but you could chose others - the same story is there. They once lived joul by joul at times and then like with all humanity the arguments and disagreements and fighting started - that's where we're at now.
Among his children was the first born Ishmael and second born Isaac. From the offspring of Ishmael came only one prophet, Mohammad, and from the progeny of Isaac came many prophets, including Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus and others (peace be upon them all). ???????????????????????
Among his children was the first born Ishmael and second born Isaac. From the offspring of Ishmael came only one prophet, Mohammad, and from the progeny of Isaac came many prophets, including Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus and others (peace be upon them all). ???????????????????????
Debrah N.
Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
I think Israel is making a huge mistake in another way that they probably didn't expect and that is that they are losing the support of allies. I saw a video that showed a recent Gallup poll regarding the question of 'if Israel hasn't gone too far this time' (or something to that effect), and in the USA at least, the numbers are changing.
Republican support has dropped from71 to 63%, Democrats 36 to 18% and Independents 47 to 29%. And as the Americans have been among if not the, greatest supporter of Israel, I have to wonder what kinds of changes are going on in the rest of the world. Not sure though what kind of changes are going on amongst the surrounding Arab countries because the algorithms aren't bringing me those sorts of videos lately, but I'll bet it's not good there either.
If this continues much longer and they even go so far as to take over the majority of Gaza again, allowing settlers to take up residence, Israel may find themselves to be an island in a sea of hostility as governments bow to voters inclinations. I think America's recent abstention from a vote (instead of using their veto) is significant.
Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza. In case anyone's interested in reading the poll themselves.
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Paco Dennis
SF VIP
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- Mid-Missouri
This news and the increasing protests on college campuses against the Universities' investments in the war, is causing some tension on the US supporting this action by Israel.
Israel gears up for Rafah civilian evacuation ahead of promised assault
JERUSALEM, April 24 (Reuters) - Israel has procured tens of thousands of tents for Palestinian civilians it intends to evacuate from Rafah in the coming weeks ahead a promised assault on the city it sees as the last bastion of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Israeli sources said on Wednesday.Abutting the Egyptian border, Rafah's population has been swollen by more than a million Palestinians who fled the half-year-old Israeli offensive through the rest of Gaza.
Their fate worries Western powers as well as Cairo, which has ruled out any influx of refugees into the Egyptian Sinai.
After weeks of talks with the United States about civilian safeguards, Israel's Defence Ministry has bought 40,000 tents, each with the capacity for 10 to 12 people, for Palestinians relocated from Rafah, Israeli government sources said.
Video circulated online appeared to show rows of square white tents going up in Khan Younis, a city some 5 km (3 miles) from Rafah.
Reuters could not verify this, but received images from satellite company Maxar showing multiple tent camps on Khan Younis land that had been vacant on April 7.
Israel's Defence Ministry declined all comment.
The government sources said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's war cabinet planned to meet in the coming two weeks to authorise civilian evacuations - expected to take around a month - as the first stage of the Rafah sweep.
Netanyahu's office had no immediate comment.
While not discussing specific battle plans, the Israeli military has increasingly signalled readiness to move on Rafah.
"Hamas was hit hard in the northern sector. It was also hit hard in the centre of the Strip. And soon it will be hit hard in Rafah, too," Brigadier-General Itzik Cohen, commander of the 162nd Division operating in Gaza, told Kan public TV on Tuesday.
"Hamas should know that when the IDF (Israel Defence Forces) goes into Rafah, it would do best to raise its hands in surrender. Rafah will not be the Rafah of today... There won't be munitions there. And there won't be hostages there."
On Wednesday, the military said it had mobilized two reservist brigades for missions in Gaza.
Israel says Rafah is home to four intact Hamas combat battalions which have been reinforced by thousands of the Islamist militant group's retreating fighters. Victory in the Gaza war, launched after Hamas' cross-border killing and kidnapping spree on Oct. 7, is impossible without taking Rafah, crushing Hamas and recovering any hostages there, Israel says.
Hamas does not comment on its deployments.
In a speech on Tuesday marking the 200th day of the war, Hamas armed wing spokesperson Abu Ubaida said Israel has achieved only "humiliation and defeat" in a campaign that Gaza medical officials say has killed more than 34,000 Palestinians.
Hamas killed 1,200 people and abducted 253 on Oct 7, according to Israeli tallies. Of those hostages, 129 remain in Gaza, Israeli officials say. More than 260 Israeli troops have been killed in ground fighting since Oct 20, the military says.
For the displaced in Rafah, another evacuation appears grim.
Aya, 30, who has been living temporarily in the city with her family in a school, said she is considering leaving. But she is worried it would be too dangerous. She said that some families recently moved to a refugee camp in coastal Al-Mawasi, but their tents caught fire when tank shells landed nearby.
"I have to make a decision whether to leave Rafah because my mother and I are afraid an invasion could happen suddenly and we won't get time to escape," she said. "Where do we go?"
H. A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow in international security studies at the Royal United Services Institute, said he expected the assault on Rafah "sooner rather than later" because Netanyahu is under pressure to meet his stated objectives of rescuing the hostages and killing all the Hamas leaders.
"The invasion of Rafah is unavoidable because of the way he has framed all of this," he said. But it will not be possible for everyone to leave the city, so "if he sends the military into Rafah, there are going to be a lot of casualties".
Egypt said it warned Israel against moving on Rafah. Such a move, Egypt's State Information Service said, "would lead to massive human massacres, losses (and) widespread destruction".
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...redict-offensive-gazas-rafah-soon-2024-04-24/