Men Really Did Create the Systems We Live In

[VintageBetter]

IDK why, but I was struck with this thought today. Maybe it's because I'm still reading through the book Hamilton.

Hamilton is kind of like a Giant Man Cave in terms of the culture you are reading about. Oh, the women in these men's lives have some side roles, but no role in decision-making for the nation at all, or for the economy. No vote, no property ownership rights, no jobs allowed except illegal jobs or jobs associated with serving.

But we hear all these arguments about "oh the Constitution says this and the Constitution says that" and how we're all supposed to worship the thing in its original form, even though the Constitution as written silenced 100% of the women of society, and also silenced 100% of the slaves. Slaves and women - we have that in common. Both groups SILENCED at the start of the nation and for hundreds of years after.

I'm not saying all men are bad or think in highly flawed ways. After all. FDR and his administration (in which he had a FEMALE cabinet member) came up with the Second Bill of Rights. Perhaps he too saw the flaws in the original document, even though he was a man? It said, and I quote:

• The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
• The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
• The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
• The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

• The right of every family to a decent home;
• The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
• The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
• The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.
*************
But, who shot down Roosevelt's vision of a new Post-WWII America? Men, of course. His opposition, mostly all men in Congress in those days.

That would be my only criticism of Hamilton the musical. I really hated how it was nothing but men in charge and all the women were basically only concerned with how to get a man, keep a man, and care for their children. It's reality - that is how it really was in the 1770s. But darn, in my old age, how I RESENT that now. I RESENT that we women have been ignored for centuries.

That has happened to me for large portions of my life - men tend to ignore my words and certainly don't take anything I've been through very seriously. 80% of men simply don't give a ****. If bad things happen to their wives, sisters or mothers they might care, but even then, it's kind of asking a lot of some of them.
I get angry and hurt about that and then I get over it. But then, when I begin to realize that same exact thing has happened to MILLIONS of American women for hundreds of years in spite of what the first Bill of Rights and the Constitution say, THEN I get mightily pissed off for all of us - that it's not just me - that this trampling on our rights is a NASTY HABIT brought on by centuries of male privilege.

I have to blame reading Hamilton for this. We ladies are hardly in that book at all. I once even considered History as a major in college. Then I sat in on one upper division course just to see if that's what I really wanted to study, and the professor started his lecture with something like, "Historians have long wondered is history is the story of Great men or Great Ideas...." Oh really? That's what I'm doomed to study if I choose this major? I'm outta here.

I did not want to study some dumb debate posed by male brains. I wanted to study the patterns of history to see what I could learn of human nature and long-term prejudices. I don't think I would have fit it.

We women don't need an extra women's history month to compensate for this (March and November - why November? Because women have cooked T-Day dinner for centuries!) We need a Women's History Day, every day.

(Those special months are kind of funny aren't they? They are kind of like lame apologies authorized by Acts of Congress, a Congress made of mostly white males for several centuries. I.e.: "So sorry - we've had control and power over everything for centuries, but here you go marginalized groups, here's your special month or day. Thanks so much, now let us go back to controlling everything and making all the big decisions." )

 

[Myra]

IDK why, but I was struck with this thought today. Maybe it's because I'm still reading through the book Hamilton.

Hamilton is kind of like a Giant Man Cave in terms of the culture you are reading about. Oh, the women in these men's lives have some side roles, but no role in decision-making for the nation at all, or for the economy. No vote, no property ownership rights, no jobs allowed except illegal jobs or jobs associated with serving.

But we hear all these arguments about "oh the Constitution says this and the Constitution says that" and how we're all supposed to worship the thing in its original form, even though the Constitution as written silenced 100% of the women of society, and also silenced 100% of the slaves. Slaves and women - we have that in common. Both groups SILENCED at the start of the nation and for hundreds of years after.

I'm not saying all men are bad or think in highly flawed ways. After all. FDR and his administration (in which he had a FEMALE cabinet member) came up with the Second Bill of Rights. Perhaps he too saw the flaws in the original document, even though he was a man? It said, and I quote:

• The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
• The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
• The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
• The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

• The right of every family to a decent home;
• The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
• The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
• The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.
*************
But, who shot down Roosevelt's vision of a new Post-WWII America? Men, of course. His opposition, mostly all men in Congress in those days.

That would be my only criticism of Hamilton the musical. I really hated how it was nothing but men in charge and all the women were basically only concerned with how to get a man, keep a man, and care for their children. It's reality - that is how it really was in the 1770s. But darn, in my old age, how I RESENT that now. I RESENT that we women have been ignored for centuries.

That has happened to me for large portions of my life - men tend to ignore my words and certainly don't take anything I've been through very seriously. 80% of men simply don't give a ****. If bad things happen to their wives, sisters or mothers they might care, but even then, it's kind of asking a lot of some of them.
I get angry and hurt about that and then I get over it. But then, when I begin to realize that same exact thing has happened to MILLIONS of American women for hundreds of years in spite of what the first Bill of Rights and the Constitution say, THEN I get mightily pissed off for all of us - that it's not just me - that this trampling on our rights is a NASTY HABIT brought on by centuries of male privilege.

I have to blame Hamilton for this. We ladies are hardly in that book at all.

We women don't need like an extra women's history month to compensate for this (March and November - why November? Because women have cooked T-Day dinner for centuries!) We need a Women's History Day, every day.

(Those special months are kind of funny aren't they? They are kind of like lame apologies authorized by Acts of Congress, a Congress made of mostly white males for several centuries. I.e.: "So sorry - we've had control and power over everything for centuries, but here you marginalized groups, here's your special month or day. Thanks so much, now let us go back to controlling everything and making all the big decisions." )

"The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;"

It's a shame that one never really came to pass.

 

[Murrmurr]

But back in the 17 and 1800s, running a household was a 15 to 16 hour job, 7 days a week. Just one example; few women bought clothes, she made them for her whole family. And then she had to launder them by hand!

Well, until some man invented the washing machine. Anyone remember his name?

 

[OneEyedDiva]

Many non Muslims in today's society either don't know this, don't want to know this or don't believe it, but more than 1,400 years ago, the Holy Quran gave women the right to participate in politics, own and run businesses (Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] met his wife Khadija when she hired him to work in her business), get an education (in fact it is incumbent on every Muslim to learn), get divorced, inherit property and retain ownership of her own property, dispersing it as she pleases. Also, women are not obligated to do menial chores or contribute financially to the household if they choose not to. It is strongly advised that men help with household chores and husbands are expected to be the providers. These rights are supported by Surahs (verses) in the Quran.

People love to cite how oppressed and mistreated Muslim women are, but as written in the linked article below and similar to what you wrote about in the OP about men making laws and excluding women in this country Vintage, the female author of the article included this:
"The oppression does not come from Islam, but from laws made, in many cases, by Muslim men"
https://muslima.globalfundforwomen.org/content/how-islam-confirms-women%E2%80%99s-rights

Obviously when men made some of the laws (be they Muslim or non Muslim American politicians), they were self serving, meant to oppress women and retain absolute power. This short but interesting article dispels some of the myths about Islam in relationship to how women are viewed, even mentioning the reverence for The Virgin Mary and the Queen of Sheba. The Prophet taught that women should be treated with kindness and fairness and be given the highest respect. This is an excerpt from the linked paper below:

"Woman as mother commands great respect in Islam. The Noble Qur'an speaks of the rights of the mother in a number of verses. It enjoins Muslims to show respect to their mothers and serve them well even if they are still unbelievers. The Prophet states emphatically that the rights of the mother are paramount. Abu Hurairah reported that a man came to the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked: "O Messenger of Allah, who is the person who has the greatest right on me with regards to kindness and attention?" He replied, "Your mother." "Then who?" He replied, "Your mother." "Then who?" He replied, "Your mother." "Then who?" He replied, "Your father."
Women in the Quran and the Sunnah

Women should not have had to fight for the right to vote in the 2oth century! When I took a Women's Studies course in college in 1985 (I started college as an adult), I found out the astonishing fact some states still did not allow women to inherit property! We know that even today, in this country, there is the proverbial glass ceiling. Many women still do not get equal pay and/or cannot rise to certain positions. Despite mistreatment, oppression and inequality, so many women (in all fields) have accomplished magnificent things.

 

[officerripley]

All so true. I read an article a while back where a gal said she had read that men in U.S. businesses who operate in a less sexist manner accomplish that by saying to themselves, "Would I treat my mother or my sister or my daughter in that sexist manner? No, I would not; so I won't treat this woman like that either."

And the gal writing the article said, "Gimme a break! My dad and my brothers, all the men in my family, hated women! So why the heck should I have to hope for and probably unsuccessfully rely on some man out in the working world adhering to that philosophy instead of real, lawfully enacted rights?!"

 

[Aunt Mavis]

Aunt Mavis likes her men to act like men.

 

[officerripley]

Aunt Mavis likes her men to act like men.

Interesting; I had heard that some gals like that. Myself, I like men (and women too) that realize they are not the center of the universe.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Wonder what the root problem men have toward women to have suppressed their roles as homemakers? Women have very good leadership and organization skills, yet women still are fighting for equal representation and balance of. power. Perhaps the lack of respect men have toward women stems from brute force and the desire to mate with the healthiest and strongest partners.

In my opinion men are weak and can easily be succumbed by almost any intelligent female with the right moves. Naturally I am thinking about Madonna or Tina Turner. Speaking of Tina Turner, men can sense a woman's weakness and will take advantage to get what he wants out of the relationship that often includes financial gain from physical and mental abuse. Women seldom see it coming because the guy knows how to play her, it's not right but it happens all of the time. Then the woman breaks the bad relationship and the goes into a similar relationship with a different guy.

 

[JBR]

But back in the 17 and 1800s, running a household was a 15 to 16 hour job, 7 days a week. Just one example; few women bought clothes, she made them for her whole family. And then she had to launder them by hand!

Well, until some man invented the washing machine. Anyone remember his name?

You've got a point, Murrmurr... a lot of men conceived & prototyped household labor-saving devices, that relieved women's lot — and served men too, since male shoe makers have used sewing machines, and a lot of guys now make use of vacuum cleaners, electric clothes irons, etc.

But we should be fair to women. Besides their burdensome conventional household roles, some women have been inventors. Josephine Garis-Cochrane designed and in 1886 patented the first successful dishwasher, which was displayed in the Chicago World's Fair in 1893. (The story was brought to light in some web forum I took part in, years back.)

 

[Paco Dennis]

Iroquois Native American Cultural Influences in Promoting Women’s Rights Ideologies Leading Up to the First Women’s Rights Convention in Seneca Falls on the 19th and 20th of July, 1848

Conclusion

The Seneca Falls Convention in 1848 served its purpose as the first ever convention to put forth a declaration that women should be treated equally to men. From that point onward, the women’s rights movement quickened as women began to take lead in standing up for their natural rights. Yet, in Iroquois culture women had always been treated fairly and had a prominent role in daily life, even without the changing dynamic in the American women’s rights movement. Not only did they already express a utopian society for those women who sought equality, but the Iroquois also shared these women’s views.

They spent a lot of time with American women and men in the surrounding area, teaching their culture and accepting them into their lives. With such a shared connection between the Iroquois Nation and the people in Seneca Falls County and surrounding New York areas, it seems highly explainable that their cultural ideals of balance, egalitarian life and women prominence would spread and even influence the thoughts and minds of those seeking gender equality.

The Iroquois Nation, even in the 1800’s, did not establish any boundaries in its idyllic model of dual-citizenship. This custom is of primary importance because of how welcoming the Iroquois were in allowing others to expand and learn from their cultural views, especially in regards to their acceptance of all three women’s rights activists, Lucretia Mott, Matilda Gage and Elizabeth Cady Stanton.

Through each individual woman’s specific connection to the Iroquois, it allowed for direct exposure to a society where balance and equality could work. They were able to examine the flow of a society in which both men and women could work together to make up a whole. These women could view how, despite their own oppression in society, women could live in high social standards and could thrive in a life where they served a primary role. It was because of this proximity to the first women’s rights convention and the makers of the convention that the Iroquois had so much influence, even when their role cannot be directly pinpointed.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton wrote The Declaration of Rights and Sentiments with a clear intention that all she put into it could be achieved, that women could have equality in a functioning society. With such parallels between the Iroquois’ culture and her goals in the Declaration of Sentiments, it shows how what she expressed was correct. She knew for a fact that what she stated could be achieved, because she had already seen it in the lives of Iroquois women. Through their influence on the minds of these women, it shows that the Iroquois had an impactful position in working as a catalyst to further the women’s rights movement in America.

https://www.colorado.edu/center/wes...equal treatment,custody of their own children.

 

[Murrmurr]

You've got a point, Murrmurr... a lot of men conceived & prototyped household labor-saving devices, that relieved women's lot — and served men too, since male shoe makers have used sewing machines, and a lot of guys now make use of vacuum cleaners, electric clothes irons, etc.

But we should be fair to women. Besides their burdensome conventional household roles, some women have been inventors. Josephine Garis-Cochrane designed and in 1886 patented the first successful dishwasher, which was displayed in the Chicago World's Fair in 1893. (The story was brought to light in some web forum I took part in, years back.)

Women weren't comfortable in their clothes until women designed them.

It seems to me women's clothing from about the 1600s until the 1900s was purposely designed to keep them literally caged. And maybe there were still mostly male clothing designers in the 20s, I don't know, but you can bet your life their wives and lady friends were nagging them to stop with the 30-pounds of hoop skirts and layers and the 16" waist bullshyte. (to the benefit of their gender; I'm not criticizing)

 

[Murrmurr]

Interesting; I had heard that some gals like that. Myself, I like men (and women too) that realize they are not the center of the universe.

You think men feel they are the center of the universe?

I know some religions teach that (basically), but those religions didn't form until recent centuries. For literally eons, men had to - I repeat, they had to - provide for their family, protect their family, and defend their community against all threats 100% of the time. That's either baked-in or it's literally in our DNA.

That said, these days, it isn't necessary at all. If there is an actual provider-protector-warrior DNA in men, keep in mind evolution can be slow, but it is changing. It is. (plus, those men=king religions seem to be dying out)

 

[Murrmurr]

But we should be fair to women. Besides their burdensome conventional household roles, some women have been inventors. Josephine Garis-Cochrane designed and in 1886 patented the first successful dishwasher, which was displayed in the Chicago World's Fair in 1893. (The story was brought to light in some web forum I took part in, years back.)

To this part, it's true there are a lot of female inventors and innovators. Madam Curie comes to mind as one of the most important. But I think, back in the day, a lot of them had to decide not to have children so they could dedicate themselves to their endeavors, and there wasn't a reliable way to prevent pregnancy besides abstaining from intimacy with men.

I bet that (among other things) made them seem weird to people. And they had to live with that stigma.

 

[Murrmurr]

IDK why, but I was struck with this thought today. Maybe it's because I'm still reading through the book Hamilton.

Hamilton is kind of like a Giant Man Cave in terms of the culture you are reading about. Oh, the women in these men's lives have some side roles, but no role in decision-making for the nation at all, or for the economy. No vote, no property ownership rights, no jobs allowed except illegal jobs or jobs associated with serving.

But we hear all these arguments about "oh the Constitution says this and the Constitution says that" and how we're all supposed to worship the thing in its original form, even though the Constitution as written silenced 100% of the women of society, and also silenced 100% of the slaves. Slaves and women - we have that in common. Both groups SILENCED at the start of the nation and for hundreds of years after.

I'm not saying all men are bad or think in highly flawed ways. After all. FDR and his administration (in which he had a FEMALE cabinet member) came up with the Second Bill of Rights. Perhaps he too saw the flaws in the original document, even though he was a man? It said, and I quote:

What you call a Flaw in men's thinking wasn't a flaw, it was the way life was lived, and women understood that perfectly well. What women had a problem with after our system was set up was not having a right to participate in choosing the leaders and laws they were expected to just accept and live by. And not long after that, they wanted the right to become leaders and lawmakers.

And don't forget that "all men created equal" was interpreted for a long time to mean "men only" and even as "white men only". IMO, that was the worst flaw in (people's interpretation of) the Constitution that women and Blacks had to overcome.

Added: Not many people know that when US slaves were emancipated, they were immediately given citizenship and the right to own property and a business and the right to vote. It wasn't until the 20th century, the Jim Crow Era, that their rights started getting violated and blocked, often with extreme violence, until the Civil Rights movement cemented their rights.