People are Leaving their Churches in Droves Today

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Beautiful story.... makes you understand that things happen for a reason


The brand new pastor and his wife, newly assigned
to their first ministry, to reopen a church
in suburban Brooklyn , arrived in early October
excited about their opportunities. When they saw
their church, it was very run down and needed
much work. They set a goal to have everything
done in time to have their first service
on Christmas Eve.

They worked hard, repairing pews, plastering walls,
painting, etc, and on December 18
were ahead of schedule and just about finished.

On December 19 a terrible tempest - a driving
rainstorm - hit the area and lasted for two days.

On the 21st, the pastor went over to the church.
His heart sank when he saw that the roof had
leaked, causing a large area of plaster about
20 feet by 8 feet to fall off the front wall
of the sanctuary just behind the pulpit, beginning about head high.


The pastor cleaned up the mess on the floor,
and not knowing what else to do but postpone
the Christmas Eve service, headed home.
On the way he noticed that a local business was
having a flea market type sale for charity, so he
stopped in. One of the items was a beautiful,
handmade, ivory colored, crocheted tablecloth
with exquisite work, fine colors and a Cross
embroidered right in the center. It was just
the right size to cover the hole in the front
wall. He bought it and headed back to the church.

By this time it had started to snow. An older
woman running from the opposite direction was
trying to catch the bus. She missed it. The pastor
invited her to wait in the warm church for
the next bus 45 minutes later.


She sat in a pew and paid no attention to the pastor
while he got a ladder, hangers, etc., to put
up the tablecloth as a wall tapestry. The pastor
could hardly believe how beautiful it looked and
it covered up the entire problem area.

Then he noticed the woman walking down the center
aisle. Her face was like a sheet. "Pastor,"
she asked, "where did you get that tablecloth?"
The pastor explained. The woman asked him to check
the lower right corner to see if the initials 'EBG' were crocheted into
it there. They were. These were the initials of the woman, and she had
made this tablecloth 35 years before, in Austria .

The woman could hardly believe it as the pastor
told how he had just gotten "The Tablecloth". The
woman explained that before the war she and
her husband were well-to-do people in Austria

When the Nazis came, she was forced to leave.
Her husband was going to follow her the next week.
He was captured, sent to prison and she never saw her
husband or her home again.

The pastor wanted to give her the tablecloth;
but she made the pastor keep it for the church.
The pastor insisted on driving her home. That
was the least he could do. She lived on the other
side of Staten Island and was only in Brooklyn
for the day for a housecleaning job.

What a wonderful service they had on Christmas
Eve. The church was almost full. The music and the
spirit were great. At the end of the service, the
pastor and his wife greeted everyone at the door
and many said that they would return.

One older man, whom the pastor recognized
from the neighborhood, continued to sit in one of the
pews and stare, and the pastor wondered why he
wasn't leaving.

The man asked him where he got the tablecloth on
the front wall because it was identical to one
that his wife had made years ago when
they lived in Austria before the war and how
could there be two tablecloths so much alike?

He told the pastor how the Nazis came, how he
forced his wife to flee for her safety and he was
supposed to follow her, but he was arrested and
put in a prison. He never saw his wife or his home
again in all the 35 years between.

The pastor asked him if he would allow him to
take him for a little ride. They drove to Staten
Island and to the same house where the pastor
had taken the woman three days earlier.

He helped the man climb the three flights of
stairs to the woman's apartment, knocked on
the door and he saw the greatest Christmas
reunion he could ever imagine.

T rue story - submitted by Pastor Rob Reid
who says God does work in mysterious ways.
I asked the Lord to bless you as I prayed for
you today, to guide you and protect you as you go
along your way. His love is always with you. His
promises are true, and when we give Him all our
cares we know He will see us through.

So when the road you're traveling seems
difficult at best, just remember I'm here
praying and God will do the rest. Pass this on
to those you want God to bless and remember
to send it back to the one who asked God to bless
you first.

When there is nothing left but God, that is when
you find out that God is all you need. Take 60
seconds and give this a shot! All you do is simply
say the following small prayer for the person
who sent this to you.

Father, G od, bless all my friends and family in what
ever it is that You know they may be needing this
day! May their lives be full of Your peace,
prosperity and power as they seek to have a
closer relationship with You. Amen.

Then send it on to five other people, including the
one who sent it to you. Within hours five people have
prayed for you and you caused a multitude of people
to pray for other people. Then, sit back and watch the
power of God work in your life.


P. S. Five is good, but more is better.
 

Last edited:
As once said in a TV show ironically paraphrased....... "it not that the person does not believe in something but doubts they are taking attendance"
Some of the most distasteful people i know use church going like a get out of hell free card they attend but once out the door nothing follows....
More people might have realized that after not attending through covid and seeing they can still practice belief and faith without others in a room
God is concerned with what is in our hearts not in records of church attendance. He knows our motives, who we really are.
 
It is interesting to wonder which came first ; consciousness or black matter and even more interesting to ponder the idea that they co-existed together from the start ….

I don’t really think my idea is any more out there than the others. I’d just suddenly realized how off track I’d gotten when bringing all this stuff up when I re-read the first post and it’s title.

I think honey nut wrapped up nicely why religion began. I think the reason why religion is dying might be due to modern technology. We can now get just about any info at the tip of our fingers. We get to learn the truth about what happened to small children when they went to boarding schools, child molesters posing as Sunday school teachers, and all the nitty gritty details. The blinders came off for many of us and there’s no way we’re drinking the Koolaid.

Years ago churches were a big part of a community and it probably helped keep people in line. We don’t want Aunt Betsy knowing we got drunk and drove around town looking for prostitutes. At one time personal integrity was important to have in a community but now we have the internet where we can talk to anyone in the world and be whoever we pretend to be. This makes people less accountable for their actions. It takes the guilt away cause that’s what most others are doing.

We couldn’t learn about other countries and cultures like we can now. We would have to travel to that part of the world to find such things. Aren’t we all just far too close for comfort now due to instant access to anything we can possibly think of? If we have no reason to build a strong community, why would we even try ?

That’s why I think religion isn’t as important as it once was. Let’s not forget that religion IS a business after all and now more churches and religions are completing with each other.

People are finding their own resources and creating their own spiritual practices. Since Covid, church members have discovered they could attend services right at home in their pyjamas if the wanted. No more dressing up respectfully for a once a week church visit.

Covid brought about a recession and that 10% expected might seem excessively generous. Cathedrals and Castle like lavish churches might now seem overly frivolous. There are lots of reasons

People are waking up and smelling the coffee.
God and religion are very important indeed, as millions attest. The preparation of the soul for eternity is not to be neglected, though it seems many people are too busy to remember God.
We are here such a short time.
 

I don’t wish to have any of what I’ve posted put into a book. Until now I didn’t realize the information might be published. It was about the same time I noticed that I took the subject way off track as usual. I know nothing about religion so probably shouldn’t even be participating in this thread. Sorry for taking your thread off track Dubee.

Sorry Peppermint Patty. I’m not publishing anything in my book from here, unless I have permission.
 
(I only care to reference The Word)

The breath of life

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gensis 2

Once you die, you no longer have that



Ecclesiastes9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing


Good answer. The soul is the breath of life. I like that. Thank you.
 
Many humans are born into a religion. Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and so many other religions. Each of these religions were created out of a revelation that a man had and passed it along to his tribesmen, community, or countrymen. The question is always did he have proof of the revelation at that time? Any witnesses? For example, did anyone witness Jesus rising from the dead after laying in a tomb for three days? As far as I know, there wasn’t anyone. No one was around. So, Christians are indoctrinated to have faith and believe that it happened. Again, that word indoctrination. The history of religion and Christianity depend on indoctrination. Our whole belief system depends on it. Without it, there would be no religion.

You do use that word a lot.

These days, with religion no longer taught in schools and most young parents not attending any church, I doubt that there's much religious indoctrinating going on with children. Instead they're being indoctrinated in other ways, for example they are taught to think that science is never wrong, although we don't have to go very far back to find examples of scientists firmly believing all sorts of things that have been disproven today. Children are also being indoctrinated to believe that religious people don't believe in evolution (most of them do) and they are indoctrinated with revisionist history that emphasizes things like the crusades and while leaving out all the life saving hospital and missionary work religions have given the world.

American children are indoctrinated to think that our founding fathers were all wise and wonderful and to revere the constitution above all. Religion taught us to go from a people who lived under a rule of might makes right to a people who knew that it was wrong to murder and steal. The ten commandments still hold up today and inform our laws. The constitution gives us problems like the second amendment.

There's no reason for science and religion to be at odds. We can have both. Science depends on physical proof, religious belief depends on a spiritual knowledge. It will never be a case of eye witnesses and video tape. That's why it's called faith.

I was not indoctrinated into religion by my parents, but through spiritual events I had while I was alone.
 
God and religion are very important indeed, as millions attest. The preparation of the soul for eternity is not to be neglected, though it seems many people are too busy to remember God.
We are here such a short time.

Rose65, that’s true about many people are too busy to remember God. He should always be conscious in our waking hours, giving thanks and praise to Him for everything He has given to us.
 
Beautiful story.... makes you understand that things happen for a reason


The brand new pastor and his wife, newly assigned
to their first ministry, to reopen a church
in suburban Brooklyn , arrived in early October
excited about their opportunities. When they saw
their church, it was very run down and needed
much work. They set a goal to have everything
done in time to have their first service
on Christmas Eve.

They worked hard, repairing pews, plastering walls,
painting, etc, and on December 18
were ahead of schedule and just about finished.

On December 19 a terrible tempest - a driving
rainstorm - hit the area and lasted for two days.

On the 21st, the pastor went over to the church.
His heart sank when he saw that the roof had
leaked, causing a large area of plaster about
20 feet by 8 feet to fall off the front wall
of the sanctuary just behind the pulpit, beginning about head high.


The pastor cleaned up the mess on the floor,
and not knowing what else to do but postpone
the Christmas Eve service, headed home.
On the way he noticed that a local business was
having a flea market type sale for charity, so he
stopped in. One of the items was a beautiful,
handmade, ivory colored, crocheted tablecloth
with exquisite work, fine colors and a Cross
embroidered right in the center. It was just
the right size to cover the hole in the front
wall. He bought it and headed back to the church.

By this time it had started to snow. An older
woman running from the opposite direction was
trying to catch the bus. She missed it. The pastor
invited her to wait in the warm church for
the next bus 45 minutes later.


She sat in a pew and paid no attention to the pastor
while he got a ladder, hangers, etc., to put
up the tablecloth as a wall tapestry. The pastor
could hardly believe how beautiful it looked and
it covered up the entire problem area.

Then he noticed the woman walking down the center
aisle. Her face was like a sheet. "Pastor,"
she asked, "where did you get that tablecloth?"
The pastor explained. The woman asked him to check
the lower right corner to see if the initials 'EBG' were crocheted into
it there. They were. These were the initials of the woman, and she had
made this tablecloth 35 years before, in Austria .

The woman could hardly believe it as the pastor
told how he had just gotten "The Tablecloth". The
woman explained that before the war she and
her husband were well-to-do people in Austria

When the Nazis came, she was forced to leave.
Her husband was going to follow her the next week.
He was captured, sent to prison and she never saw her
husband or her home again.

The pastor wanted to give her the tablecloth;
but she made the pastor keep it for the church.
The pastor insisted on driving her home. That
was the least he could do. She lived on the other
side of Staten Island and was only in Brooklyn
for the day for a housecleaning job.

What a wonderful service they had on Christmas
Eve. The church was almost full. The music and the
spirit were great. At the end of the service, the
pastor and his wife greeted everyone at the door
and many said that they would return.

One older man, whom the pastor recognized
from the neighborhood, continued to sit in one of the
pews and stare, and the pastor wondered why he
wasn't leaving.

The man asked him where he got the tablecloth on
the front wall because it was identical to one
that his wife had made years ago when
they lived in Austria before the war and how
could there be two tablecloths so much alike?

He told the pastor how the Nazis came, how he
forced his wife to flee for her safety and he was
supposed to follow her, but he was arrested and
put in a prison. He never saw his wife or his home
again in all the 35 years between.

The pastor asked him if he would allow him to
take him for a little ride. They drove to Staten
Island and to the same house where the pastor
had taken the woman three days earlier.

He helped the man climb the three flights of
stairs to the woman's apartment, knocked on
the door and he saw the greatest Christmas
reunion he could ever imagine.

T rue story - submitted by Pastor Rob Reid
who says God does work in mysterious ways.
I asked the Lord to bless you as I prayed for
you today, to guide you and protect you as you go
along your way. His love is always with you. His
promises are true, and when we give Him all our
cares we know He will see us through.

So when the road you're traveling seems
difficult at best, just remember I'm here
praying and God will do the rest. Pass this on
to those you want God to bless and remember
to send it back to the one who asked God to bless
you first.

When there is nothing left but God, that is when
you find out that God is all you need. Take 60
seconds and give this a shot! All you do is simply
say the following small prayer for the person
who sent this to you.

Father, G od, bless all my friends and family in what
ever it is that You know they may be needing this
day! May their lives be full of Your peace,
prosperity and power as they seek to have a
closer relationship with You. Amen.

Then send it on to five other people, including the
one who sent it to you. Within hours five people have
prayed for you and you caused a multitude of people
to pray for other people. Then, sit back and watch the
power of God work in your life.


P. S. Five is good, but more is better.
I like the story but I will not be sending it to anyone. 🙂
 
You do use that word a lot.

These days, with religion no longer taught in schools and most young parents not attending any church, I doubt that there's much religious indoctrinating going on with children. Instead they're being indoctrinated in other ways, for example they are taught to think that science is never wrong, although we don't have to go very far back to find examples of scientists firmly believing all sorts of things that have been disproven today. Children are also being indoctrinated to believe that religious people don't believe in evolution (most of them do) and they are indoctrinated with revisionist history that emphasizes things like the crusades and while leaving out all the life saving hospital and missionary work religions have given the world.

American children are indoctrinated to think that our founding fathers were all wise and wonderful and to revere the constitution above all. Religion taught us to go from a people who lived under a rule of might makes right to a people who knew that it was wrong to murder and steal. The ten commandments still hold up today and inform our laws. The constitution gives us problems like the second amendment.

There's no reason for science and religion to be at odds. We can have both. Science depends on physical proof, religious belief depends on a spiritual knowledge. It will never be a case of eye witnesses and video tape. That's why it's called faith.

I was not indoctrinated into religion by my parents, but through spiritual events I had while I was alone.

Thank you for your view points here. Well said.
 
Question: Do you you believe Christians make Jesus a higher priority of worship, then God, our Creator?
 
Rose65, that’s true about many people are too busy to remember God. He should always be conscious in our waking hours, giving thanks and praise to Him for everything He has given to us.
Indeed, I thank God constantly, for feeding me and helping me. For providing the strength to cope with life as alone I cannot.
How many people ever say Grace before eating? Yet are quick to be angry when they think God has not helped them - that's the God they don't believe exists anyway!

I praise God no matter what. It is His will not mine.
 
Yes, Debodun, it’s the new revival in churches to get more attendees, especially the younger generation. I just wonder how long that enthusiasm will work for them when they move away, and there is no rock concert around to motivate them?
Psalm 100 says to make a joyful noise unto the Lord. Music was very different in David's time than it is today. I just wonder if modern music is that 'joyful' sounding in Heaven.
 
Question: Do you you believe Christians make Jesus a higher priority of worship, then God, our Creator?
It seems like some do. I was taught that the Big 3 were all equal and the same. Even so, I put God at the top through a primitive sort of deduction that might be possible for an 8 year old. If the creator created everything, Jesus and the Holy Spirit could not exist without him. Of course all arguments about the issue assume that God is real, which is only an axiom, a self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument.
 
I believe in God and that Jesus was the son of God. I don't know what form God takes or how it all fits together. I think it's beyond my comprehension. I believe when we die we have perfect peace. I like those words "perfect peace." To me that is heaven.
 
Another question: If heaven is real, how do you imagine what it is like?
Can't

80XILkF.png
 
People who worship a divine being do not need a building in which to do so. This can be done anywhere. For example let us briefly examine the monotheist traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

There is no record of Abraham ever building a house of worship for God. He did build an altar on Mount Moriah to offer his son to God…which didn’t happen as he was only being tested.

Jesus preached along the banks of a river, from a rock, any place he was. He did not build a physical church.
Those that came after him did the building.

The Prophet Muhammad's original house in Medina is thought to be the first mosque. It was a mud-brick structure with living quarters on one side of an enclosed rectangular courtyard.

None of these religious leaders felt the need to build palaces to worship God, so when you say, today, people are leaving churches in droves, they are not really, because people who believe in their religion carry their church with them, they do not need a brick and mortar structure!
 
People (like myself) who believe in God… cannot prove there is a God…

Likewise:

People who do not believe in God … cannot prove there is no God.

In chess, that is called stalemate!

I can prove there is a God in nature and science. There is no other intelligence that could design such an amazing thing as what we witness every day in our life. Just think of the intelligent design of the human body. What is our heart and brain capable of doing to keep us alive? The chemistry and biology is mind boggling. There is no way it could have just happened without some creative, intelligent design. The possibility of everything in life is a masterful design by an intelligent superiority that cannot be ever imagined, and we may never see, but just know He is there.
 
I like the idea that came out from some of the earlier posts: if we believe in a God Almighty and a Son and Holy Spirit then surely our one main function in life apart from physical sustenance is simple being a vessel to the world on behalf of the Trinity. We where given the gift of the HS but do we accept him/her and seek guidance each day to preach the word through discussion and service in whatever way - moste highly or humbly?

We can sometimes perhaps claim to be serving christians but can only just manage to fit the Lord in each day - was that the intent of the pentecostal experience then or now?
 

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